Do you know why suicide is a sin? I do...

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by Oreyeon

 

There is no "god" in which you understand.

Don't let others tell you what "god" is. Simplfy it as the The All or just know god has you know god because you do know, we all do

you do know that you contradicted your own statement right? put it this way, if god exists it's not in this dimension that's for sure. what we do know for sure is something from a higher dimension can never be understood or imagined by something in a lower dimension. a 2 dimensional object can never understand a 3 dimensional object unless the 3 dimensional object brings itself down to 2 dimensions or the 2 dimensional object is to gain a 3rd dimension. if either of those conditions are not met then they will never meet. same could be said about our 4 dimensional world trying to conceive a higher dimension, we know no other dimensions from our own, we speculate 11 dimensional hyperspace but those dimensions are variations of our own current 4. not higher nor lower. people need to stop trying to know what god or the next life is and focus on letting god and the next life know who YOU are! peace and love

assuming we're here for a reason, i doubt god would appreciate us taking the easy way out. not that it is a damning offense, but i wouldn't be surprised if there were repercussions.

i mean, who honestly wants to live in this place when there is infinitely better? i look forward to death. not in the depressing sense, but lets be honest, this world isn't so good.

Suicide isn't a 'sin'.

It's a bad 'soul career' move.

Leave your self-imposed classroom situation by choice, and you may/perhaps end up having to re-do it, at a later stage.

The word sin, like most words in the bible, of this nature, have come to represent erroneous notions.
A 'sin' is an action or thought which contradicts your own 'predetermined' (by you) life path. This life path is chosen by you in a context of full knowledge of the use and function of incarnated life...however, once incarnated, many do not recall this choice, and stumble through lives wondering what the hell it's all about.

You can indeed 'check-out' whenever you like, but you can never leave the 'hotel' forever...this is where this part of the lessons happens. Miss classes, opt-out...and you are just practicing the fine art of 'putting things off'...until such a time as you are cerebrally and spiritually content that the classroom is not such a bad place after all.

Akushla

Sin or not, if there is a next, you wont be "plugged" into this matrix, would be like being born again. I guess...

Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by Oreyeon

 

There is no "god" in which you understand.

Don't let others tell you what "god" is. Simplfy it as the The All or just know god has you know god because you do know, we all do

you do know that you contradicted your own statement right? put it this way, if god exists it's not in this dimension that's for sure. what we do know for sure is something from a higher dimension can never be understood or imagined by something in a lower dimension. a 2 dimensional object can never understand a 3 dimensional object unless the 3 dimensional object brings itself down to 2 dimensions or the 2 dimensional object is to gain a 3rd dimension. if either of those conditions are not met then they will never meet. same could be said about our 4 dimensional world trying to conceive a higher dimension, we know no other dimensions from our own, we speculate 11 dimensional hyperspace but those dimensions are variations of our own current 4. not higher nor lower. people need to stop trying to know what god or the next life is and focus on letting god and the next life know who YOU are! peace and love

I more then realize the contradiction of my statement.

The real question is do you realize the contradiction in your own statement

Penrose Stairs - All truths are but half truths

Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd
life is a gift, it is good at times and can take a turn for the worse too. Whether there is something more after this life or not , if you decided to off yourself what makes you think they're gonna want to have you on that other side if you wasted your time here? Not everybody is meant to make a difference here, nor expected to. But let me ask you, if you were to die today, would you be satisfied with what you've contributed thus far? Most likely not if you're contemplating suicide. I for one say Kill Yourself if that's what you want, we're already overpopulated and since you're a waste of air and resources as it is, this could be your one chance at making a real contribution

ain't no next life or immortal beyond for those who waste such a precious gift.

You can't kill yourself.

You can terminate the body in which you currently reside in, but you can't kill yourself. We are simply a sliver of The All consciousness.

And to say it is a gift is again, but a half truth. Some view it as a prison. There is no escape. You can't simply off yourself and blink out of existence. You just get reinserted into a new body. Its a cycle.

Observe and report, thats all.

Originally posted by Oreyeon
It's simple. Poor man makes money for rich man. Rich man makes no money if no poor man to do hard labor. Where would the elitists be in the world today if all of us just decided to check out? Freewill = Free Choice right? What if I choose to no longer be here? What if I decided that I wanted to take the gamble and see what happens next? What if all of us found out that there IS a next, and we don't HAVE to be here. They'd be screwed, that's what....

......or were they all just...taken by?
en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

Originally posted by ImmortalThought

Originally posted by ZeroUnlmtd

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by Oreyeon

 

There is no "god" in which you understand.

Don't let others tell you what "god" is. Simplfy it as the The All or just know god has you know god because you do know, we all do

you do know that you contradicted your own statement right? put it this way, if god exists it's not in this dimension that's for sure. what we do know for sure is something from a higher dimension can never be understood or imagined by something in a lower dimension. a 2 dimensional object can never understand a 3 dimensional object unless the 3 dimensional object brings itself down to 2 dimensions or the 2 dimensional object is to gain a 3rd dimension. if either of those conditions are not met then they will never meet. same could be said about our 4 dimensional world trying to conceive a higher dimension, we know no other dimensions from our own, we speculate 11 dimensional hyperspace but those dimensions are variations of our own current 4. not higher nor lower. people need to stop trying to know what god or the next life is and focus on letting god and the next life know who YOU are! peace and love

I more then realize the contradiction of my statement.

The real question is do you realize the contradiction in your own statement

Penrose Stairs - All truths are but half truths

there is no contradiction in my statement, you cannot perceive a higher dimension no matter how hard you try, know your limits and accept them, the more you struggle the more you slip away from your original purpose.

Wow ATS! Two pages and no mention of the actual source?
If anyone is interested in the actual truth read the wiki here en.wikipedia.org...
This info was just presented on the History channel as well.

The most notable pro-suicide group was the Donatists, who believed that by killing themselves they could attain martyrdom and go to heaven. They were eventually declared heretics. Most early theologians of the Catholic Church considered suicide as murder and thus a mortal sin in the absence of circumstances that could mitigate the sinfulness of the act.

In the fifth century, St. Augustine wrote the book The City of God, in it making Christianity's first overall condemnation of suicide. His biblical justification for this was the interpretation of the commandment, "thou shalt not kill", as he sees the omission of "thy neighbor", which is included in "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor", to mean that the killing of oneself is not allowed either.[1]. The rest of his reasons were from Plato's Phaedo.

In the sixth century, suicide became a religious sin and secular crime. In 1533, those who committed suicide while accused of a crime were denied a Christian Burial. In 1562, all suicides were punished in this way. In 1693, even the attempt of suicide became an ecclesiastical crime, which could be punished by excommunication, with civil consequences following. In the 13th century Thomas Aquinas vilified suicide as an act against God and as a sin for which one could not repent. Civil and criminal laws were enacted to discourage suicide, and as well as denying a proper burial and degrading the body. Property and possessions of the deceased and their family were confiscated.[2][3]

A god, did not declare suicide a sin, man however, did.

Dead men can't pay taxes...and we can't have that.

reply to post by ZeroUnlmtd


Sure you do.

In once statement you say God is in a higher dimension and us on a lower dimension can't understand God because of this.

If this is a true statement (which you stated was a fact) then everything you go into as an explanation for wether or not suicide is sin is null and void. Why?

Because it is a contradiction to a) state we can't understand god because of our "lower" dimension and then try and explain what he or she thinks.

In your opinion we are simple creatures which should not try to interpret god's will and therefore should not have any beliefs based off of god's will or word we just dont understand.

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by ZeroUnlmtd

 

Sure you do.

In once statement you say God is in a higher dimension and us on a lower dimension can't understand God because of this.

If this is a true statement (which you stated was a fact) then everything you go into as an explanation for wether or not suicide is sin is null and void. Why?

Because it is a contradiction to a) state we can't understand god because of our "lower" dimension and then try and explain what he or she thinks.

In your opinion we are simple creatures which should not try to interpret god's will and therefore should not have any beliefs based off of god's will or word we just dont understand.

that's the problem now, people trying to understand god's will. You overreach , know your limits and accept them. Your life is a gift , from the time you are conceived to the time you expire is a miracle. Waste that miracle if you want but it would be simply naive to expect another miracle when you waste the one you have. IF there is a god , i'm sure he didn't want his creations to kill themselves, it defeats the purpose of existing. But by all means if you wanna commit suicide, take the razor to your throat and taste the cream

satron
Maybe it is a sin. A better solution is for the poor man to let the rich man know about his discontent.

This doesn't work if the life on the other side of death is better than this one and the person perceives it not worth trying to improve this one. It's kind of like how a man or a woman will divorce because they think they cannot reconcile their differences.

Killing themselves won't work if this life is supposed to be a lesson. When they enter the other side they'll probably get a reprimand and then get sent right back.

BUT I understand the OP somewhat. My own opinion is our body doesn't want us to kill ourselves because a human is actually a synthesis of many living cells - all of which have their own sense of self preservation. I'm essentially saying our consciousness does -not- speak for our body. In fact, there're several times more non-human cells in our body than human cells. Suicide almost murders the body, except save for the fact that instincts could possibly prevent it. Ultimately, our DNA is the controller and if it fails to inject the appropriate instincts into our consciousness then it's to blame.

Altruism, at least in some cases, appears to me to be genetic, since eusocial species display high amounts of altruism and I can't imagine humans being like ants. Eusocial society requires a high amount of altruism so members can benefit from each other.

Unrelated or not, a while back I was thinking about the Borg Collective that're part of the Star Trek universe and I was wonder about this eusocial thing as well. I remember thinking that unless there was an instant form of communication to any particular Borg cube then each Borg cube needs some ability to respond to its environment on its own. This means that even an altruistic member of a species needs to have some ability to do things on its own because it cannot always seek instruction from a higher ranking member. And since a member cannot know at all times what the most altruistic choice is (since communication is not instant to all members of the species) then their choices will always include some amount of individual discretion. And as with the Borg cube, large distances separating members means that for them to learn or evolve they must do some of that on their own to be effective against threats. This is where I decided that their needed to be multiple borg queens.

Ultimately I believe altruism leads to one being, as opposed to many. This is because too much separation between individual members leads to individual discretion which then leads to individual consciousness and choices that're less than optimal. For altruism to work, it relies on informed decisions about the collective. To make informed decisions, separation has to be minimal, or it's ineffective.

I've always wondered how things like sacrificing yourself for a greater cause isn't considered suicide. Say you are in a combat situation where you decide to stay behind knowing full well that you will die so that your comrades can escape. Isn't that suicide?

What about pulling the plug on yourself when dying of an extremely painful disease so that you don't have to suffer anymore? Is that suicide?

How about spies that are captured by opposing governments and have to take a cyanide pill to prevent themselves from giving out national secrets while under torture?

Finally, what about people suffering from severe depression? We know that there is a chemical inbalance in their brain that is making them think this way? When this person commits suicide, is that still a sin? This one particularly bothers me because if God created everyone, why create someone destined to commit suicide because of the chemical reactions occurring in their brain that is outside their control?

Suicide seems to be such a blanket term for many ways and reasons to kill yourself. Granted the top way reason people do so is because they can't deal with some problem in their life (and many times can be chalked up to them suffering from depression).

The bible was created to control others but one flaw the authors figured out was that they made the afterlife to appealing. Back then people had horrid lives except for royalty and church. Making suicide a sin was a catch 22 to keep people from running in droves off cliffs to the lovely fairyland called heaven.

Dying for god and king back then was a release for many you still see it in other Abrahamic religion today. Every time a suicide bomber happily goes to his death.

reply to post by Oreyeon

Do you know why suicide is a sin?

The greatest sin,

Because you have steal something which does not belong to you,your life.

Or better said if consciously take your life you conscience of after life will not accept that act,because you cannot give your life to yourself back.

Socially, I think the reason there's a large percentage against suicide is control. That is, to control what others do or don't do. And I think that control is so engrained in us socially that we don't see telling someone "No, you may not disembark this ride, you selfish a-hole" as controlling.

We already manipulate the hell out of each other in life, can we not simply leave CTL/ALT/DEL up to the individual and not the rest of the class? Yes, if one of my parents, siblings, kids, husband, or friends decided to kill themselves, I'd certainly be lonely, depressed and sad, and miss the hell out of them. But I still don't think it's my right to tell them what they can or can't do in that regard. "You may be miserable or terminally ill, but my feelings and/or beliefs matter much more than yours do" seems incredibly arrogant and infinitely more self-centered by comparison.

Pondering why it would result in such reactions in the first place is what brought me to the belief that anti-suicide is a stance of ultimate control over others. Because it strips someone of their ultimate freedom as an individual: to declare "Fin".

reply to post by Unity_99

Thank you Unity_99.

You have answered a question I didn't even realized I had asked. lol

BT

reply to post by piequal3because14


Please answer my post about suicide, especially about the depression angle. If our life isn't ours (and by extension I guess it is God's), then why does God give some people a defective body that has chemical imbalances that depresses them to the point of ending it all, then proceed to send them to hell for following those uncontrollable impulses? Your God is such a stellar character.

reply to post by Oreyeon

There is no God. There is only man justifying the wrongs of a life through the will of a being that simply does not exist. And IF there is a God, it is not one I will ever give allegiance to. Any God that allows for the pain and suffering of anyone, is quite simply,...an A**hole. Teach me through kindness, love, and laughter, not through death, hatred, disparity, and chaos.

So there is no God because man is the ultimate intelligence in existence but if there is a God
he's an a-hole even tho I've never met him and don't know anything about him
for not do'in things the way I think he should because I know better than anyone and it's my
way or the hi way.

Nyiah
Socially, I think the reason there's a large percentage against suicide is control. That is, to control what others do or don't do. And I think that control is so engrained in us socially that we don't see telling someone "No, you may not disembark this ride, you selfish a-hole" as controlling.

We already manipulate the hell out of each other in life, can we not simply leave CTL/ALT/DEL up to the individual and not the rest of the class? Yes, if one of my parents, siblings, kids, husband, or friends decided to kill themselves, I'd certainly be lonely, depressed and sad, and miss the hell out of them. But I still don't think it's my right to tell them what they can or can't do in that regard. "You may be miserable or terminally ill, but my feelings and/or beliefs matter much more than yours do" seems incredibly arrogant and infinitely more self-centered by comparison.

Pondering why it would result in such reactions in the first place is what brought me to the belief that anti-suicide is a stance of ultimate control over others. Because it strips someone of their ultimate freedom as an individual: to declare "Fin".