This isn't the American Dream!

So, I’m laying it all on the line for you. It may sound whiny, and I know I'm actually one of the lucky ones, but here goes anyway.

I am a married man with 2 kids. I have a decent career making $46k per year. My wife makes $27k. My kids are 5 and 4 years old, so we either have to pay for early pre-school or daycare. Turns out pre-kindergarten is the cheaper alternative at the local elementary school.

I have a new Jeep with a payment of $590 per month. I have a motorcycle that is paid for and a pickup that is paid for. I have to insure all 3. I also have health insurance and life insurance for every member of the family, but my rates are very, very good through my employer.

My wife and I have cell phones, 700 minutes per month shared and unlimited data. Our phones are Droid 1’s, they are almost 2 years old now, we could slightly lower the bill if we gave up the internet, but we’re talking less than $50 per month savings.

We have cable and cable internet in a package deal, really no way to lower the bill without giving it up completely.

My utility company is a co-op and the rates are lower than in the city. I have a septic tank (gray water system), a well, and we use a fireplace and propane. The propane averages about $1000 per year, I cut wood myself, and so only the electric is left to pay monthly.

I have 1 Credit Card with a $1500 limit. Anytime they try to raise the limit, we lower it back down to $1500. We pay it halfway off each month, but it usually creeps back up to be almost maxed.
We eat at home a little more than half the time. The kids eat school lunches. We buy food in bulk to save money, and also as part of our survival preps.

My wife and I haven’t bought any new clothes in years. I get my blue jeans patched, my work slacks repaired by a seamstress. At holiday time or birthdays, we might buy each other 1 or 2 items that are high quality, and they tend to be stylish and last longer that way.

We do have a pretty nice house, about 2600 sq ft, 3 bedroom 2 ½ bath, a couple of acre yard, and a pool. But, we only owe $200k on it. It was bought at a bank auction and we fixed it up ourselves. Our house payment is about the same as average rent for a 3/2 ranch style home in this area. If we downgraded to an apartment we would give up a whole lot and only save about $300 per month.

So, here is my dilemma. My bills almost exactly match our combined income after taxes and insurance. And that is before putting gas in the cars or buying groceries! There isn’t any chance of getting a raise anytime soon (government work). I had a second job, but I was missing a lot of weekends with the family, and the business was cutting back, so we parted ways amicably. I could trim the fat everywhere possible, and it would save me up to about $500 per month, but it would mean giving up cell phones, cable, internet, and it would still just cover gas and groceries.

Maybe we shouldn’t have traded the Toyota for the Jeep, but the payments were about the same, the insurance actually went down a little, and since our family is spread all over the place, we have to have at least 1 newer car for travelling a couple of times per year. Plus, now that we have it, there is really no way out of it for a couple of years until it is paid down some and sellable.

We are thoroughly trapped into this situation. We live comfortably, but I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. Bills are only going to go up, the kids will start needing more things for school, our stuff is aging and will need replaced. I have student loans in deferment, and eventually I’ll have to start paying on those.
You would think, a two-income family, making over $70k per year and trying to live below their means would have a little money to put toward retirement, or to buy something nice every now and then, or go out to dinner together, but it just isn’t the case.

The Lord does provide from time to time when I pray about it. We were in danger of bouncing a check this week, and all of a sudden a cashback reward check from the credit card came in the mail. We’ll probably get a little bit of tax return money next month. Every now and then I’m asked to do an odd job, or work on someone’s car, and it provides that little bump that we need to get through a month. BUT THIS ISN’T THE AMERICAN DREAM!

I know I’m lucky compared to an awful lot of folks. I am working hard to maintain a pretty decent life, but it sure doesn’t feel lucky on days like today. I’m more than willing to downsize, cutback, live frugal, but nickels and dimes don’t add up very fast, and the things we’d have to give up would make a large impact on my wife and kids. I have to decide what is worth cutting, and what isn't worth it.

Where is the light? What to do next? I can’t go on a Dave Ramsay plan, these are all recurring bills. I don’t have consumer debt, I just have living expenses. Do I just need a 30 year plan of living this way and then live off Social Security in the end? Is that really how this all plays out nowadays?

Why are you making a $590/month payment on a vehicle!? I make twice what you do, and I'd NEVER do that! After your payment, and having to have full coverage on that vehicle, it's probably costing you closer to $800/month. Why don't you sell the damn thing and buy a used vehicle, with payments around $150/mo. I have a 1996 Explorer that's paid for an 250,000 miles on it. We bought a Kia Spectra for gas mileage purposes, and it's a bare bones model. The only upgrade was air conditioning. Cost: $250/mo. Recently, my son needed a vehicle. I could have "afforded" a big payment, but I didn't, because I didn't want to wind up in your situation. Instead, we got a $4000 2001 Explorer for him. He financed it with me as a cosigner (I'm also making the payments while he's in college), and the payments are a whoppin' $115/month.

Sell your Jeep, and buy something that's not costing you a fortune.

And, no, I'm not being a dick. I'm trying to be sincere. It sucks, but it looks like that Jeep is the financial problem. I wish you the best of luck!

I feel you there, I think the American dream is propaganda for hopeful individuals. An ideal of hope to supplement the job you got that wasn't your dream job but the job you do to eat and support your family. The ideal that you can make you life better by buying into the American way. It's a way to force you to buy things you don't need, live in a way that is not necessary, which leaves you in debt to America.

Nice thread BTW


My truck was $500 dollars a month, now paid off, if you pay the higher rate you win in the end by less interest being added every month - another America Dream - buy your dream car pay $200 a month and end up paying twice as much as the original price in the end.



Everyone has seen it probably but it fits here....

Ok, so the, have to have a new car caught my attention. WHY??
I drive a 99 Buick La sabre. No car payments. My husband keeps up faithfully on oil changes and all maintenance.

He drives a 95 Chevy something truck with 4 wheel drive and he does the same with it. Again, no payments.
I would drive either one tomorrow to Florida and back without question.
It is so much cheaper to maintain a vehicle than buy a new one. Plus with most of the new ones, there is more to go wrong that is super expensive to fix.

Sorry, just my opinion.

Why do you have a new jeep, cell phones with internet, cable and high speed internet.
Cable, internet and tv are luxuries plain and simple, you can get a house phone for rather cheap. Don't even get me started about the your jeep, why the hell would you get a gas guzzler if you knew money would be tight. Don't trash the American dream because of poor financial decisions. The "American dream" is having the opportunity to live comfortably in a responsible manner, not to have everything you want lol. Hell you could keep the internet and use magic jack for a house phone, remove the cell phones an cable (mostly trash programming anyway) since it sounds like your two year contract is up and still save a good amount.

I used to have a semi used audi which was great on gas and insurance, plenty of room to pack the family in and only paid $230 a month for the darn thing plus another 100 for insurance.

Still it's OK for now I use to make 1300 $ per day,and wasn't enough for me with a limo and a convertible,but still is ok for the days to come,Tomorrow..you know...!

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


You've got that right! It was a mistake that started about 3 years ago. My wife had a Toyota Corolla, she was upside down on the $250 payment, it didn't have power locks or windows, and she was pregnant. We upgraded to a Toyota Camry. Payment only jumped to $430 a month, it was a hybrid and it was supposed to get better gas mileage. Instead, it got worse gas mileage, and it depreciated in value even worse than the Corolla, and the insurance was higher. We stuck it out 3 years, but she was rear-ended a few months ago, and instead of fixing the car, we took the car and the insurance money and traded for the Jeep.

That was a pretty big mistake. At the time, I had the 2nd job, the payment was only going up $150 a month, and the insurance was coming down $25 a month, and we got rid of that awful Camry Hybrid that we despised, and the Jeep won't depreciate nearly as bad as the last 2 cars...... hopefully.

We actually did look at Kia's and Hyundai's, but nobody wanted to trade for the the crap Toyota.

I do take responsibility for some bad decisions along the way. Being upside down in a car is something I will NEVER do again. Also, my Student Loans are a result of spending way too much time in college and not focusing on getting the degree and limiting my expenditure. This house is more than what we need, but it was a great deal at the time, and a couple of years ago it had $100k in equity. Now we could probably only get what we owe if we were to sell it.

So, I don't want to be one of those victim-types. But, I am interested in how to make some progress and dig out of this hole.

70K????? Please quite whining---we are a family of four and make 1/2 that. You sound like you do not want to compromise or lower your standard of living. Sorry guy...but you need to down grade your life or put on your big boy pants and deal.

IMO you sound a bit "bratty".....

Wow, great post OP. Seriously, you just described my situation almost exactly, save for just a couple minor differences. I am really looking to see what peoples comments are, and not just because I am looking forward to the discussion, but also so I can gather some ideas that people may have on how to succeed in this day and age. A few years back, my grandfather, who started with nothing and build a business into quite a thriving business, told me before he passed that he felt things were so much harder for people to get ahead these days, and I see that completely now. To be honest, I have talked with my wife about leaving the rat race for real. Selling everything and finding a way to go live somewhere fun, nice, warm, and have so much less to live on, but truly be happy. That isn't realistic though. You and I wanted the American Dream, and we got the ideas from the way the American Dream used to be years ago. The problem now is that the American Dream just isn't the same anymore. I really don't know what it is, but I don't think the dream I am living is what my grandpa had in mind as he worked toward the American Dream.

We have all seen the phrase "Due to Budget Cuts, the Light at the End of the Tunnel Has Been Turned Off". This is starting to feel very real lately, and I don't like it. Time to make a major change, but I don't know what that change is. I am fearful for the life my kids will have to lead in this world.

I'm struggling to be sympathetic...but I can't help but think the following string of thoughts: Why not rent a house? Cheaper vehicle? Live in an apartment, even? Second job interfering with family life? Well, too bad, your family needs to suck it up and understand times are tight. American dream? Two billion people go to sleep hungry each night. Sory, I'm not seeing the fundamental problems here...there is still fat that can be trimmed.

Yes, your biggest problem is the jeep. Being new, it's probably costing more for insurance too, than if it was a few years old.
But you've also said that you're locked in for a couple of years. Which is kind of crappy, because by the time you can sell it, it'll have depreciated.

No more going out for meals! All meals will need to be eaten at home, just add up the cost of eating out, even at an inexpensive place. It's a lot of money in a month.
Learn how to make inexpensive meals, make sure you have a garden when planting season arrives, you're going to need it, and you might as well take advantage of the big yard.

Track ALL of your bills, gas, all spending for a couple of months in a spreadsheet. It will help show where you can cut back, it all adds up.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Neopan100
70K????? Please quite whining---we are a family of four and make 1/2 that. You sound like you do not want to compromise or lower your standard of living. Sorry guy...but you need to down grade your life or put on your big boy pants and deal.

IMO you sound a bit "bratty".....

I knew my post would get that type of response. It is deserved in some ways, I'm not denying that.

But, what is the solution? Getting rid of the TV, Internet, and phones will save me less than $300 per month. I'm actually fine with all of that (the wife isn't though), but it doesn't put that much of a dent in things. Over a few years it will make a difference, but it isn't going to help all that much this month or next.

As I said above, the house had plenty of equity, and it was a great business decision when we bought it. We could afford it, it got instant sweat equity from us fixing it up, but then the housing debacle happened, and now it is worth about what we owe. Selling it won't help much. Plus, my utilities are lower than all of my friends with houses half this size.

The Jeep was admittedly a stupid decision, and a recent stupid decision at that. It was a rollover from the previous stupid decision of trading a Corolla for a Hybrid Camry that turned out to be expensive junk. The problem is, now that we have it, there is no possibility of selling it unless we were able to save up a few thousand to pay the note off when it sold.

So, I'll take my lumps here. The jeep, the student loans, and the addiction to technology are real problems, and they are of my own making.

So, how do I fix it?

reply to post by Never Despise


Exactly...if he wants to keep the home then all else has got to go...I especially liked the we eat at home 1/2 the time line..pfft...lol!

cook and eat at home
get rid of every non essential (cable not essential)
cars, extras tvs, gaming, extra anything goes on craigslist.
clear out the house of extra dishes, goods, tools etc.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Suze Orman

try this...on the menu to the left go to Suzes Tools, there will be a debt eliminator..click that....but you may also want to evaluate your priorities...and your wife might want to take her nose outta the air.

Originally posted by Never Despise
I'm struggling to be sympathetic...but I can't help but think the following string of thoughts: Why not rent a house? Cheaper vehicle? Live in an apartment, even? Second job interfering with family life? Well, too bad, your family needs to suck it up and understand times are tight. American dream? Two billion people go to sleep hungry each night. Sory, I'm not seeing the fundamental problems here...there is still fat that can be trimmed.

Its ok. Not looking for sympathy. The poorest in America have it better than 70% of the world, and I am not the poorest in America by a longshot.

I understand that.

However, I did address renting a house. I currently pay about $1300 per month for this house with taxes and insurance. I could rent a house half this size, without the pool, and with more utilities and it would be $1200 per month. I could downgrade a long way to a 2/2 apartment for about $850 per month, but is it worth it? I'd be giving up an awful lot for a small savings?

I have worked the second job for 2 years. I didn't give it up altogether willingly. That business was struggling also, and I helped them to find someone to replace me for half the cost. They outsourced everything I was doing. It was a non-profit business. I could have fought to keep it, took a pay cut, etc., but honestly, with both parents working, and me working weekends on top of that, it was a major hindrance to family life, so we decided it is best to try and scrape buy for awhile.

Sorry fella am I supposed to feel sorry for you?
It sounds like you have a decent life to me.
Why don't you be happy with what you have because most of the populace of the earth has nothing like this.

Does the bike have any value? If it does, it may have to go. Sorry, no guy wants to hear that.

You and your wife both need a vehicle that can transport the kids, so the pickup is needed.
If there's any way to renegotiate about the jeep, maybe you can get out of the contract? Get something cheaper?

Try not to lose your house and land. I would sell the furniture first, eventually it'll be an asset.

Be thankful you're not paying for Canadian gas prices......


2600 square feet is a good amount of space. Is there any way to block off a portion of the house for a renter? Someone you know preferably. Or if you have any outbuilding space that could be lived in if you're south enough?

reply to post by getreadyalready


does the 1300 bucks include insurance and prop taxes?

never mind...i re-read that...im multitasking here...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Sorry fella am I supposed to feel sorry for you?
It sounds like you have a decent life to me.
Why don't you be happy with what you have because most of the populace of the earth has nothing like this.

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy. I have a great wife and kids. I realize how lucky I am.

But, sitting here at the computer today, looking at cash flow for the next 90 days or so, and knowing my student loan payments are going to be coming due very soon, I am just trying to find a way to get ahead a little bit.

If I can maintain for 5 years, or 30 years, there is a lot here to be thankful for. We will eventually get ahead bit by bit, but I decided to put this up in Rant, because I know I'm not the only one out there that is living a pretty good life, but is also struggling day by day and week by week to just maintain it at all costs.

There are some good suggestions so far. I think I'm going to just bite the bullet on Cable, Internet, and Cell Phones. Maybe my wife and I can get one of those Straight Talk pay as you go plans or something. We can watch DVD's if we just have to have TV time. The savings didn't hardly seem worth it, but over time they will add up.

Also, to all those saying cut out any eating out. That is already a done deal! We haven't eaten out once since I gave up the 2nd job. The kids eat cereal for breakfast and a school lunch, and I've been cooking at home every night for dinner. I think my wife is still eating a salad for her lunch in their cafeteria for $2 or $3, and I've just been skipping lunch, but that is pretty normal for me.

reply to post by snowspirit

2600 square feet is a good amount of space. Is there any way to block off a portion of the house for a renter? Someone you know preferably. Or if you have any outbuilding space that could be lived in if you're south enough?

We did used to rent out the upstairs to a grad student. That was an extra $400 per month, and he helped out around the house. When he moved away, we ran through a few students that didn't work out. I've even got a thread about one of them. Right now, we let a girl move in over the summer for free, and she took care of the kids while school was out. It saved us about $600 per month in daycare costs. Now the kids are back in school, and we've let the girl stay here through Christmas for free. Hopefully we will be renting it out again after that. So far we've had 1 great renter up there, 3 terrible ones, and then this girl that has worked out ok, but is overstaying her welcome, LOL!