Was Eve correct in rejecting God?

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by jmdewey60
What do you think I was talking about?

The Law which the authorities were sanctioned by the Law to act as judges on behalf of.

You were talking about the alleged sins of Christ, and I am telling you that none of those "sins" were actually sins. There is nothing on the Mosaic law that could be used to condemn Jesus. The "sins" that Jesus was accused of were based on traditions of the pharisee that were not part of the Mosaic Law.

Sorry dude but you have bought into the Lies of people who are actually supporters of Judaism and not Christianity.
Jesus ran afoul of the Law. That is a fact and there is no way to get around it.
Some people want to pretend that the Law is all just fine and somehow is pristine, just as it came out of the mouth of God. That is a fantasy, and sorry to have to burst your bubble but it is a big fat lie. We were not there at Sinai and no one else was either who are alive today, or for that matter, even two thousand years ago. There was no written record of the law that survived from eye witness testimony, so every little bit of what we think is God's law is made up. You need to grow up and stop living in a fair tale world.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Sorry dude but you have bought into the Lies of people who are actually supporters of Judaism and not Christianity.

This does not make any sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus ran afoul of the Law. That is a fact and there is no way to get around it.

No, he didn't.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
We were not there at Sinai and no one else was either who are alive today, or for that matter, even two thousand years ago. There was no written record of the law that survived from eye witness testimony, so every little bit of what we think is God's law is made up.

Prove.

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Sorry dude but you have bought into the Lies of people who are actually supporters of Judaism and not Christianity.

This does not make any sense whatsoever.(1)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus ran afoul of the Law. That is a fact and there is no way to get around it.

No, he didn't. (2)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
We were not there at Sinai and no one else was either who are alive today, or for that matter, even two thousand years ago. There was no written record of the law that survived from eye witness testimony, so every little bit of what we think is God's law is made up.

Prove. (3)

1.Who is greater, Moses, or Jesus? If your answer is, Moses, you are a Jew, and not a Christian.
2. The Gospel of John makes quite a point of how the Jews decided to kill Jesus over the Sabbath, so John uses this as a vehicle to show that Jesus was equal to YHWH, which the Jews took offence at. It raises the questions of if Jesus is greater than Moses, and is Jesus above the Laws given by YHWH to Moses, if he is the equal or superior of YHWH.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Who is greater, Moses, or Jesus? If your answer is, Moses, you are a Jew, and not a Christian.

Still doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I think you should go back, and actually read what I wrote so you may reply in a way that makes sense, since your current reply has no relationship whatsoever to what I said.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
The Gospel of John makes quite a point of how the Jews decided to kill Jesus over the Sabbath, so John uses this as a vehicle to show that Jesus was equal to YHWH, which the Jews took offence at. It raises the questions of if Jesus is greater than Moses, and is Jesus above the Laws given by YHWH to Moses, if he is the equal or superior of YHWH.

This has absolutely no relationship to the question I made you, or my statement. First, the Jews did not kill Jesus over the Sabbath, as they killed him in the Friday, and even if they did, they would be the ones running afould of the law, not Jesus, so this in no way supports your statement that Jesus run afoul of the law.

You're spewing random nonsense now, and you owe me the proof that everything we know about God's law is made up. Planning to address it by numbering it "3" in the quote doesn't qualify as actually addressing the objection.

reply to post by Leahn


JM is right actually... Jesus broke the law

You might notice that jews don't use the word God in any context... they tend to type G-d.

As a matter of fact they can't even destroy anything they've written God on, apparently any document with such things on it must have a "kosher" burial because these documents become holy.

Jesus did refer to himself as "Gods son" which would not be allowed... and would be punishable by death

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand

Originally posted by Akragon
JM is right actually... Jesus broke the law

You might notice that jews don't use the word God in any context... they tend to type G-d.

As a matter of fact they can't even destroy anything they've written God on, apparently any document with such things on it must have a "kosher" burial because these documents become holy.

Jesus did refer to himself as "Gods son" which would not be allowed... and would be punishable by death

There is nothing in the Mosaic Law stating those practices. There is no "Law" supporting those traditions.

Also, Jesus has a point. The Bible has no shortage of references of humans being called "god", specially the judges, and Scripture cannot be broken. How can they justify calling it a crime, and condemn Jesus for it, when Scripture itself does it, and its author went unpunished?

reply to post by Leahn


I don't recall any humans being called God...

Perhaps you might show me these passages?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Leahn

 

I don't recall any humans being called God...

Perhaps you might show me these passages?

Psalm 82:6

reply to post by Leahn

Still doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

You should have one of the grownups at your house read it and explain it to you.
All you were saying then was the same thing you are saying now, which is you can not understand what I wrote.
You seem to have a problem with comprehension, so you should either rephrase your question, or get someone to help you understand what I said, and to point out where you went off track.

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Leahn

 

I don't recall any humans being called God...

Perhaps you might show me these passages?

Psalm 82:6

Seriously?

It seems there is quite the shortage of people being called God...

what else ya got?

reply to post by Leahn

There is no "Law" supporting those traditions.

Deuteronomy 17:12, 13
“The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. 13“Then all the people will hear and be afraid, and will not act presumptuously again. New American Standard Bible

The person who pays no attention to the priest currently serving the Lord your God there, or to the verdict – that person must die, so that you may purge evil from Israel. 17:13 Then all the people will hear and be afraid, and not be so presumptuous again. NETBible version

The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. NIV

Remember where Jesus is brought before Caiaphas and one there smacks Jesus for giving what that person took as a snarky answer? He (Jesus) rightfully, according to Moses, could be killed for just that single offense.

The concept being presented by the Gospels is a Jesus who breaks the Law in order to provide the way to demonstrate how Jesus is superior to Moses and Torah, which was at that time put on a level with God.

Originally posted by Akragon
Seriously?

It seems there is quite the shortage of people being called God...

What do you mean?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Deuteronomy 17:12, 13
“The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. 13“Then all the people will hear and be afraid, and will not act presumptuously again.

Remember where Jesus is brought before Caiaphas and one there smacks Jesus for giving what that person took as a snarky answer? He rightfully, according to Moses, could be killed for just that single offense.

No, he couldn't. Since when does "not listening" means the same as giving a snarky answer?

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by Akragon
Seriously?

It seems there is quite the shortage of people being called God...

What do you mean?

Earlier you said...

Also, Jesus has a point. The Bible has no shortage of references of humans being called "god", specially the judges, and Scripture cannot be broken. How can they justify calling it a crime, and condemn Jesus for it, when Scripture itself does it, and its author went unpunished?

reply to post by Leahn

No, he couldn't. Since when does "not listening" means the same as giving a snarky answer?

I edited my post to add the version I was looking for, which was the NIV which puts it into terms to where the story of Jesus' trial makes sense, why it seemed appropriate to punish Jesus before there is even a conviction, because there really was no need for a further trial at that point, where he stood convicted by his own words and MUST be killed, under any circumstance.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

What a ridiculous and preposterous assumption. Eve never rejected God. That is just a story someone told you to get you to be religious and blame the fall of humanity on your wife.

Tell me about it. If anything she got sucker punched and then laughed at by Lucifer, she didn't want to die alone so she invited adam to join her in her misery the same as Lucifer invited her to join into his misery. Domino effect till current time.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by jmdewey60
What do you think I was talking about?

The Law which the authorities were sanctioned by the Law to act as judges on behalf of.

You were talking about the alleged sins of Christ, and I am telling you that none of those "sins" were actually sins. There is nothing on the Mosaic law that could be used to condemn Jesus. The "sins" that Jesus was accused of were based on traditions of the pharisee that were not part of the Mosaic Law.

Sorry dude but you have bought into the Lies of people who are actually supporters of Judaism and not Christianity.
Jesus ran afoul of the Law. That is a fact and there is no way to get around it.
Some people want to pretend that the Law is all just fine and somehow is pristine, just as it came out of the mouth of God. That is a fantasy, and sorry to have to burst your bubble but it is a big fat lie. We were not there at Sinai and no one else was either who are alive today, or for that matter, even two thousand years ago. There was no written record of the law that survived from eye witness testimony, so every little bit of what we think is God's law is made up. You need to grow up and stop living in a fair tale world.

edit on 11-11-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

The only thing the pharisees could hang him on was blasphemy. Despite all his miracles they didn't even care one whit about except for Nicodemus who testified to Christ's excorsicm of the demon possessed boy which led to the pharisees commiting blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by saying that Jesus cast out demons with the help of beelzebub.

However it was only when Jesus said "I AM, the truth the way and the life, no one comes to the father but through me" is when they wanted him dead. It was all of Christ's I AM saying that they used to kill him with because that was the only thing they could find. Man was living God's laws as according to man, Christ came to set the record straight by being the Living Word. Obviously those in power didn't like having their power taken away (enter satan on the left).

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Apparently you want to cherry pick a few things out of the Gospels and ignore the rest so you can keep worshiping Moses and Torah.
Of course you do know that makes you an idolater and you will go to hell, right?

Originally posted by Akragon
It seems there is quite the shortage of people being called God...

The verse in Psalms calls all the Israel "sons of God". What exactly have you not understood about Jesus argument?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I edited my post to add the version I was looking for, which was the NIV which puts it into terms to where the story of Jesus' trial makes sense, why it seemed appropriate to punish Jesus before there is even a conviction, because there really was no need for a further trial at that point, where he stood convicted by his own words and MUST be killed, under any circumstance.

Cherry picking different translations won't help you here since I can read the Greek originals. The word "listen" is part of the original greek passage, NIV's paraphrased translation notwithstanding. I do not know why the NIV translators decided to translate it the way they did, but it does not correspond to what the original greek text says. "Not listening" does not mean the same thing as "giving a snarky answer". Your argument holds no water.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
However it was only when Jesus said "I AM, the truth the way and the life, no one comes to the father but through me" is when they wanted him dead. It was all of Christ's I AM saying that they used to kill him with because that was the only thing they could find. Man was living God's laws as according to man, Christ came to set the record straight by being the Living Word. Obviously those in power didn't like having their power taken away (enter satan on the left).

"I AM" is not and will never be the correct translation for the expression "ehyeh asher ehyeh". There is nothing significant in Jesus saying "I am". The Pharisee are very clear that they are accusing Jesus of calling himself "son of God".

reply to post by newcovenant

The reason that the world has come to this sorry mess is because of that original rebellion. If Adam hadn't listened to her, he would have passed his perfection on to us. instead, we got sickness & death. Unfortunately, God gave them both free will. Eve willingly ignored God's instruction, so she did in fact reject God. Man has been allowed to follow his own path since then, & this world is the result of that. Man's government of man is an abysmal failure... All because Eve thought she would have something better than God had already given them. She believed a lie & was misled, but she knew what would result from disobedience... That is how they lost paradise for their offspring. If you believe the Bible, anyway.

reply to post by Akragon

1st cor 8:5 'For even though there are those who are called 'Gods', whether in heaven or on Earth, just as there are many Gods & many lords, there is actually to us one God'.
This was referring both to idolistic Gods, like statues of Baal, & Artemis, it also referred to the Judges man asked God to appoint in lieu of a king. We were not meant to have ANY intercessors, except Jesus. Money is a God to many people. it can be something without power, & something revered as an authority. that is what a man-made god is, but a God non-the-less, as it is worshiped as powerful. Hope that helps...