This Is Just For Those Who Oppose The OWS Protest!!

reply to post by evs490


Not everyone would like this answer but we need to eliminate labor unions all together.

That should do the trick.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


I semi-agree, I agree the unions have gotten to big and certain ones cause more problems then others (teachers union comes to mind). However I do not see how a full dismantle would be beneficial to the American worker, Id be for a scaling back tho. Compared to Wall St, Big Pharma and others the Labor Union effect on politics moneywise has been quite minimal.

You really don't see a problem with this wealth gap?

I can't seem to understand the point of this argument. No matter what, this whole thing is going to end on a bad note at some point in time. Either way, we are going to have a one-world currency, one-world government, or something of the sort. There is absolutely no getting around it. Of course they will say "Here's our solution! We all have the same money!" No matter how many governments we have, it is all void if there's one entity dishing out the dough to everyone. They are who's really in charge. Yes, it COULD work, but look at us. We are too far gone to even think that this would be done in the proper and unselfish way needed. This is how it is going to be. We are bound to tragedy.

No this isn't me being gloomy, pessimistic, helpless, or anything of the negative nature. If anything, I am completely okay with it. We are here to learn, be happy, spread joy, and to cope with these facts, no matter what. That's the challenge. That's our hurdle. That's our story, the beginning of our story, or just another chapter of our story. Any change we can hope for is never going to be a true change until the dirty human consciousness elevates itself to higher wavelengths, which I really don't see happening in this realm. A change will never be anything more than the people initiating and growing it. It's sad but calming in a way. Bittersweet, if you will. Let's just all accept that we will do what we can to get along and be as kind as possible to each other and await the end together, hand-in-hand...

...and no, I am not a "New Ager" or any label tied to a hippie, doomsayer, soothsayer, and/or wacko connotation. I am a human with thoughts, flaws, ego, and compassion; as are you. I've learned to be grateful, content (on the proper levels), optimistic for what's to be witnessed, and what's to be learned between then and now.Yes, I screw up, but that's the challenge. What will be shall be, it's how we cope with it. Cheers!

reply to post by evs490


We could eliminate the unions my making them ineffective upon a certain date. They would still get their pensions and whatever and then they could use that money to pay off the national debt.

Just for starters, I am sure it gets more complicated but I think it's got legs.

I see a problem with it, but many of those that are manipulating the rules are pulling for the same team, that would be socialism/communism. By doing this it would stop them dead in their tracks.

reply to post by kingsac

So wait a minute. If Cain, Michael Moore, Unions, Socialist party, Communist party, DNC, and Acorn liked something, you would already be against it?

Well looking at that distinguished list it's hypocritical. Michael Moore How does he make his money? Oh yea he is part of what ows is supposedly against. The labor unions? They are part of the problem too, using the money they collect in dues to influence politics. They are like the bankers they are protesting. A small percent controls where the money goes. The DNC ? I thought ows was against gov't excess? Don't tell me that the democrats are not involved in wall street, the economic team Obama picked came from where?

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Im all for getting rid of the unions whos members are government workers and keeping the private sector unions.

www.nytimes.com...

Thats all about how for the first time in history the majority of union workers now work for the gov. I had no idea it had gotten that out of hand, but makes sense government cant say no and private sector doesnt want unions.

I still dont get why people are against the raising of taxes to the rich, and against the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act

reply to post by evs490


Public sector and private sector.

They are a big part of why average americans can't find work and the news today about student loan debt 1 trillion, thats out of hand, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Labor Unions are just a tool of the communists gaining power anyways, we don't need them.

There is no constitutional law propping up unions, I say the hell with them. Let's get rid of them already.

reply to post by hangedman13


Using money to influence politics for OWS has more to do influencing politicians with money which in turn influence their policies. Micheal Moore might alter some views of the public but the majority of people who see his movies are already behind his beliefs and views. I highly doubt his movies have influenced a politician to vote a certain way. I haven't met a person who proclaims lobbyists to be a good thing.

The current relationship that Wall Street and the Large Corporations have with our government certainly does not promote Free Market Capitalism, but more like Communism.

The reason communism does not work, is because various heads of sectors will amass wealth for them and their cronies, while the remaining 99% are poor.

Take note, that this is what we have today, where Large Corporations have an enormous market share in various industries, bribe and buy politicians, or, simply become politicians and create rules and regulations to sway the market toward their favor at everyone else's expense!

Wall Street is of the same vain, where you have 10 or more financial lobbyists per congress member, as well as many financial leaders, revolving between the public and private sector, again , writing rules and regulations and supporting bills like NAFTA so that their cronies can make out at the expense of the rest of the nation.

These parasites do not represent the people of this nation.

This is why we are, where we are today!

And this is far and away anything close to free market capitalism.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Now I will try to address the other part that these folks think that capitalism is evil and the reason for poverty around the world. That is simply not true. If capitalism is the problem then capitalism is the plane that has been hijacked by radical communists and socialists.

Folks you all have your own reasons for being here and for those who attend OWS because of some underlying reason.

For me my frustration began with the court system. It took along time for me to understand some of the injustices that go on there in a place where justice is supposed to be served. But much like the rise of labor unions in our court system we no longer elect our judges! It is called merit selection and judges are selected by special committees.

For the last century the progressives have been laying the framework for communism/socialism with in the current, 'capitalist' republic.

It is frustrating when a main stream movement such as OWS gains so much momentum and points their fingers at the wrong people. But that is how deep the propaganda and the social conditioning has reached out in this country.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by MikeyBones

 

Sorry. I'm a firm believer in individualism. This "stand with us or against us" sounds a wee bit socialistic too me.
I'll stand as an individual, support indvidualism, (rugged individualism) and support and endorse personal responsibility over "social justice" or any other hive-mind ideology.

So, I hope your also against individuals like the banksters, financial lobbyists and large heads of corporations going to the big daddy gov to buy politicians, or become one to help their cronies out?

reply to post by thehoneycomb


I thought the Union/communist connection died in the 60/70's. Unions played a big part in getting fair wages for workers union and non-union. Union pay sets the rate for the non-union worker, without the unions influence the pay for all Americans would suffer. Private sector Unions were the reason for the 40 hr work week and other benfits that are deemed as expected by our society today. The only union i really have a problem with is the teacher's union who have played a role in crippling our education system.

I've seen them wearing Lenin shirts and saying how the government should support them. Bad movement, even if part of it I agree with.

reply to post by evs490


Use the links within this page to familiarize yourself with the Socialist Party platform.

socialistparty-usa.org...

... good job of those who plan this for centuries+
... who really argue here about OWS?
... some groups of people... lets see>

"those who have no problem and dont feel in danger to pay loans" ...and "those who are not sure about them future" ...or "those who cant pay already"... and then "those who really can see the real mess around the world" ...and then dont forget "those who have some income to be here and make a way witch any post go" ...

what they have in common?

all of them (U) owned something to "those who created it..."

left or right it das not mater. all of U are slaves... some of U the happy ones*

so, it looks like we are all very much divided( and i dont even mention religion!!).
it looks like 99% have no chance... never have and never will cos we have no super natural heroes in our reality. guess what will happen if 99% start to be problem for those in real power? they will kill most of U... cos they dont need U all anymore anyway... good luck***

reply to post by thehoneycomb


Im aware of socialists supporting unions, that is nothing new, but what your saying (cept you said communist) would mean for the socialist party to gain power the unions would have to be supporting them. They are a fringe party that got 6k votes last election, as opposed to its moderate successes around the turn of the century into the teens. It did garner support from unions however they were trade unions which are quite different from the labor unions established later in the century.

If a small business owner invests in a big company it may do him some good but the effect is minimal compared to if it were the big company investing in the small business.

reply to post by evs490


Thats a pretty smart idea, you should talk to some business people.

Anyhow, that party be it socialist or communist or whatever they decide to call it next, is hinged on human rights issues right? But if you look closely their platforms offer no human rights of the sort.

The labor unions are hinged on workers rights, so thats great until it becomes a collective entity that imposes their so called rights on others or basically disregards them. They throw large amounts of money at wall street and the democratic party and then point the finger.

There are two major differences between socialism and capitalism. Capitalism lets the markets work by supply and demand, in other words it lets the market operate on it's own without interference from other parties. It is driven by ideas, these ideas that are the best are in demand and determine the markets, its perfectly natural.
Socialism tries to determine the markets or influence them by creating a supply and demand.

If we get rid of the Labor Unions we allow once again for a free market. If we do not, we become like Greece.
Restore the constitution first. Pave in the cracks second.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Most Agree

For those of you who disagree with the OWS'ers, I think it is incumbent upon you to explain why. The "silent majority" have spoken and most of them agree with the aims of the OWS...

I get so tired of hearing, "Why are they protesting? Blah,blah, blah." If it isn't obvious to you then you are living with your proverbial head in the sand. The wall street tycoons received the biggest pay hike they have ever received after bringing about the worst economic collapse since the GREAT DEPRESSION. You should ask why to that, not why these people are protesting.

WAKE UP!!!!! WAKE UP!!!!

edit on 26-10-2011 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by SpeakerofTruth because: (no reason given)

Let me explain. America is the land of opportunity, even under the socialist regime of Obama. The protesters are demanding a piece of other peoples wealth, and that is just wrong. When I was young I too was envious of those who had wealth because I did not. I was very poor and I mean really poor, and I was upset because others had things and I had nothing. I sought help from the government, food stamps, housing aid, etc, but they always made me feel like I was nothing, like dirt. They cared nothing for me or my condition. Then I said to myself, I will do it myself. Surely I could do something for others so that they would give me their money, hence an entrepreneurial mind took hold of me. So I created my own business. Today I own a large home. I have tenants that pay me rent. I have two businesses and do quite well at six figures. I do not need government, nor to desire someone else's money. I have my own. I found the secret to success. It is God's blessing in this land if you want it.

Let me explain the benefits of capitalism. The concept is to gain wealth by transferring it from others to yourself. To do that you need to provide a product, service, idea, etc. The more people that want it, the more you make, and the wealth is redistributed from them to you. It is that easy. Bill gates, Steve Jobs, are two examples of this.

You don't have to be poor, protesting in the park, demanding other peoples money. Make your own. It isn't that hard if you would just try. You can do it, but you have to make the effort. Instead of despising those who have things, say to yourself, "why do they have things" and learn from them.

Originally posted by kingsac
reply to post by beezzer

 

So wait a minute. If Cain, Michael Moore, Unions, Socialist party, Communist party, DNC, and Acorn liked something, you would already be against it?

Instead of finding out if someone is for or against it and taking a side against it becuase they aren't on your "team", shouldn't you do the research and figure out what the situation or ideas are and make a decision based on your own criticle thinking skills?

I think this easy way of thinking is one of the greatest problems, when people choose a stance on an isue or they choose an idea that they stand by.

When a movement accepts those endorsements, then I'm against it. It then becomes indicative of what their core beliefs are.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


ask #owsers about 9/11 and see where chips will fall...
also the timing of these "protests" is also highly dubious.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Most Agree

The wall street tycoons received the biggest pay hike they have ever received after bringing about the worst economic collapse since the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Not that I disagree with you but, and to use ATS thought, sources please.