A question about swordsmithing in the 21st centuary

I have been slamming around the internets for hours, searching for information on swordsmithing. More specifically, I am trying to find out if there are any smiths still making advances in the art. Of course there are traditional swordmakers, like those geniuses in Japan, and those celtic masters, still slaving over thier anvils. But what I want to know is, are there those out there using newer, harder more advanced metal mixes , and more effective methods of honing, for instance lazers and so on, in order to build more effective blades?

Anyone who has some information on this.... well I would appreciate it !

reply to post by TrueBrit


Check out the interview with this guy.
He was featured in a History Channel Documentary focusing on Swordsmithing.
Hope this helps. Link www.thearma.org...

lasers are definatly a possibility, you could probably go truely in depth and ask some of the universitys with the tech if they would kindly nano-shape the edge of your swords >_> but if your going homebrew its probably not going to happen that way.

there are companies that work on making perfect alloys for different uses in mechanics, if you want to figure this out by yourself you'd need to research a hell of alot of materials science, and probably nail physics and chemistry.

that or figure out how to make a lightsaber.

reminds me, rolls royce have a secret technique in the formation of their aircraft blades, which in esscence makes the internal hollow and immensly strong. of course the problem is its secret patented and whatnot, and the furnace they we're using in the documantary I saw them explain this on is absolutely enormous. you could fit a car in it.

reply to post by TrueBrit


High tech carbon fiber swords, axes. Expensive as hell though.

www.pirelabladedesign.com...

Check this guy out....He added a cryogenic technique to making his blades stronger, he calls it super steel. I think he said it takes about 2 weeks of going back and forth between his cryo tank and the furnace to perfect the steel hardness. I've seen the back and forth hot/cold method before with ceramics and some metals like Liquid Metal, and it makes them VERY strong when done correctly.

www.angelsword.com...

being an electronics student at present and having covered materials in the last year a thought occurs, diamond edges. diamond is carbon in a particular structure, infact most rocks/gems come from the combination of elements in certain combinations, its unlikely that you'd be able to afford that option but alot of tool grade blades like saws use diamond edging, so im putting it out there.

there are also the legends of meteoric iron swords, another thought occurs, mainly due to past debates on swords on a dnd related forum...the japanese I believe it was, fold their swords, and I came to the conclusion this may alter the frequency of the blade, one reason they call it a singing blade is its unique sound. (katana I think but there are so many sword types.) perhaps, just perhaps, magnetics can have effects aswell. maybe in the setting stage to align the sword at the molecular level.

ed: I'm thinking magnetics because meteoric iron afaik -is- lodestone, if it didn't originate from volcanos.

Well thanks everyone for your input. I was curious to know if there were people putting a true modern twist on things, like using high strength alloys not found in traditional , or replica weapons, and methods not possible in the time when swords were common military hardware.

The designs of the Pire Lab are VERY interesting, where the axes are concerned. I would love to see a sword produced in this style.

I havent the space or the cash to become involved in production of steel or for that matter other metals, but I am slightly obsessive over edges. I sharpen garden tools, knives, scissors, non invasive surgical apperatus, and refresh stanley blades all the time, and light agricultural gear. Over the years I have sharpened some fantastic old blades,including a machete with a second , wood chopping blade on the reverse thats been in our family a long time, and a long bladed sickle with a cambered , curved blade.

The challenges involved with putting a good edge on a tool made me very interested in metal working of all kinds, and that is what motivates me to think about these things.

reply to post by whatsinaname


this part made me chuckle,,"a thought occurs, diamond edges."

that same thought occured too , howard hughes dad,,,
and well we all know what happened to poor, nutty howard,,bio warfare,,know wonder he ,fly around all day,
poor nutty howard,
but both Guienies's? mensa + smart,,,ahead of there time,,

so hang in there kid.

reply to post by TrueBrit


on the pire labs site check under knives for their carbon fiber sword

I've heard of a company using what they call 9260 steel. It's supposed to be a spring steel that, I think, includes a little extra silicon in the mix.

www.chenessinc.com...

I don't have the money right now to actually buy one to try it out, but it seems that the folks at the Sword Buyers Guide have tested some.

www.sword-buyers-guide.com...

This really depends upon what you want out of your blade - what function is it serving and what properties do you want it to have?

Lighter blades can be made by alloy technologies that were simply not available hundreds of years ago - but a lighter blade will not have as much follow-on inertia as a heavier blade. Some could be made thinner, others could be made with harder edges...

We just don't have much in the way of sword technologies these days because people don't use them nearly as often. Blades are mostly used in industrial processes - where practical mass production is often valued over 'ultimate' construction. A person who studied blade combat styles for years (or even just a few months) - is going to want a blade of matching quality and patience - so spending a long time developing a single, 'ultimate' blade for that person is acceptable.

Personally, going with more standard metallurgical blades, I would go with a Titanium based steel alloy aiming for a sort of 'elven' design to be light and agile - going for slashes at shallow arteries rather than cleaving.

However, I would also like to go "all out" and get into nanostructured composite lattices - more an 'imagineered' concept than a real one - we are only just beginning to get into even the most basic of nanostructures, and I would be getting into lattices of very varied components (crystalline structures embedded within polymer fibers all designed to transition between various states and react to physical stress in specific ways).

It would be interesting to have the 'blade' be a lased x-ray emitter that functions based on the force of impact with a material. It would be like in RPGs where your sword becomes a flash of light cutting through an opponent!

Or... kind of. It wouldn't exactly work like that... but I'd get it figured out.

Then move on to developing a sword capable of shooting 'energy blades' like in anime.

I'll just shut up now.

Hey guys,
This is an area I have looked into for years, I used to black smith as a hobby and I got into it to make knives and swords. the more I learned the more disappointed with smithing I became for making really nice high quality blades. Black smithing can make some excellent quality blades after you have been doing it for a few years. The problem with smithing is you can only work with certain steels. A lot of the nicer high end tool steels that make the smaller sharper carbides which make hands down a better knife can only be worked in really high temps. The high carbon tool steels like D-2 that are exceptionally tough resilient and hold one hell of an edge will break and crack if not worked at really high temps. When you work them that hot its a really fine line between being able to shape them and ruining them by burning the carbon out of the blade. Once you shape the edge down the material will heat up there quicker than the thicker part of the blade and burn out the carbon .Its difficult to heat up the mass of the knife to temps that you can work and not over heat the edge. The best way to make a really nice blade is to buy a D-2 steel blank and grind out the blade take it to some one who knows what they are doing and have it heat treated. The newer high end tool steels have fairly tight heat ranges they have to be kept in some time for a few hours. Then it has to be annealed to get it to the hardness you want. Cryogenics help to relieve the stress in the blade that is caused by working, heating, and cooling of the steel. If you look at how blades are sharpened and see how the angles work and how small you can get your edge. Even with hand sharpening once you know what you are doing you can sharpen a small knife sharp enough to shave down the shaft of a hair and split it. I have only seen this once and it was with a knife from a Japanese sword maker. If you understand sharpening and steel you can have a really wonderful cutting edge. In the Japanese Samurai used to carry a tool with them to straighten their sword when it was bent which happened often. Their whole system of fighting is based on blocking with the side of the blade to keep from nicking the edge. In one of the Viking saga's I read one the guys fighting had a crappy sword and he complained about having to stop, put his foot on the blade and straighten it out after it bent. It did this several times during the battle. Metal understanding and technology is way beyond what it was back in the past. We can make steels now that would put to shame the best steels made in ancient times. A word of warning though this is a very in depth subject that you can sink years into learning about, so be ready to spend a lot of tie studying.

reply to post by TrueBrit


there are different alloys they use for different machines. the metal that airplanes use is very light, so it would be good if you want a lighter sword, but if you want something really durable, i would suggest a stronger alloy. It's best to make you own though, since i doubt you can find scrap airplane metal or scrap tank metal anywhere.

The main problem with tool steel for blades is that the metal is so stiff that it breaks when struck against hard surfaces. It's not really a problem for a knife, but swords pretty much require a lot more flexibility.

folded high carbon steel is fine.. it's the temper and heat treatment that matters.
A Katana is made from folding the steel into thin layers.
Then the blade is differentially tempered by adding clay to the back opf the blade, then heating to non-magnetic state, and quenching in oil.
the clay slows the cooling on the spine which leaves it softer, while quickly cooling the edge to make it harder.
the harder edge stays shar, while the softer spine absorbs the impact of a strike without shattering.


I know that's just a rudimentary explaination, but you should get the gist of it.

IF you were looking for a blade for use in actual combat, you don't want one that "too sharp."

A really sharp blade will penetrate until it is completely wedged into bone. It will then be stuck there and the wielder is effectively disarmed, and at his opponent's mercy.

Calvary soldiers such as the hussars learned this in the Napoleonic wars. But the lesson was forgotten with the switch breach-loading rifles after the American Civil War.

The Second Reich issued razor-sharp "command sabers" to their officers at the onset of World War One, based on those officers experience with Mansur (academic fencing in German-speaking universities) and the world of dueling for honor. But they soon discovered that duels are a contrived environment. Your rival shows courage by not hiding behind a tree or blocking a thrust with a rifle-butt. In actual combat, the razor sharp swords proved a liability because they identified the officers to enemy sharp-shooters, and became imbedded in the body of the first victim.

For that reason, the Kaiser's troops re-introduced very large bayonets; or else they sharpened spades, and fought with them.

So, to make a short story long, you want a resilient edge, rather than the sharpest one.

what is the point, anyway? any pistol, 10 ft away or more, and you are badlly outclassed.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

IF you were looking for a blade for use in actual combat, you don't want one that "too sharp."

A really sharp blade will penetrate until it is completely wedged into bone. It will then be stuck there and the wielder is effectively disarmed, and at his opponent's mercy.

Calvary soldiers such as the hussars learned this in the Napoleonic wars. But the lesson was forgotten with the switch breach-loading rifles after the American Civil War.

The Second Reich issued razor-sharp "command sabers" to their officers at the onset of World War One, based on those officers experience with Mansur (academic fencing in German-speaking universities) and the world of dueling for honor. But they soon discovered that duels are a contrived environment. Your rival shows courage by not hiding behind a tree or blocking a thrust with a rifle-butt. In actual combat, the razor sharp swords proved a liability because they identified the officers to enemy sharp-shooters, and became imbedded in the body of the first victim.

For that reason, the Kaiser's troops re-introduced very large bayonets; or else they sharpened spades, and fought with them.

So, to make a short story long, you want a resilient edge, rather than the sharpest one.

The Razor sharp/ dull sword debate has been going on for years.
We don't actually use them in combat so it's all a guess.
However, Katanas were commonly kept razor sharp. they didnt stick in bone because they would cleave right through a person's thigh.
These were one stroke weapons.

Iaido is the art of drawing smoothly, striking and resheathing the katana.
this wouldn't be useful with a dull sword.

Large 30 inch Khukuri "knives" were used ceremoniously to sever a bull's head.
Aagain, not possible with dullswords.
The ghurka's used "knives" over 18 inches long in combat .
They were famous for lopping off arms in a single strike. Ghurkas were fearless, and stood back from only one army ( They stood back and showed respect for the Scottish Fighters....They thought any man who fights in a skirt is a bad Moth** ****er).

Dull swords are as useful as a club.
a light, sharpened machette might get stuck, but a 2 foot 3lb razor with a 1/4 inch spine will cut a man cleanly in half when weilded by someone with skill

Originally posted by BadNinja68
....
However, Katanas were commonly kept razor sharp. they didnt stick in bone because they would cleave right through a person's thigh.
These were one stroke weapons.

Dull swords are as useful as a club.
a light, sharpened machette might get stuck, but a 2 foot 3lb razor with a 1/4 inch spine will cut a man cleanly in half when weilded by someone with skill

I am not advocating a "dull" sword by the way.

The Katana could slice through a person's thigh----as long as the person was wearing only laquer armor, and not western style mail or plate.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by BadNinja68
....
However, Katanas were commonly kept razor sharp. they didnt stick in bone because they would cleave right through a person's thigh.
These were one stroke weapons.

Dull swords are as useful as a club.
a light, sharpened machette might get stuck, but a 2 foot 3lb razor with a 1/4 inch spine will cut a man cleanly in half when weilded by someone with skill

I am not advocating a "dull" sword by the way.

The Katana could slice through a person's thigh----as long as the person was wearing only laquer armor, and not western style mail or plate.

In Theory, an enemy in mail or plate armor would be skewered with a spear from a horse.
They didn't run into armor that heavy, but they would skewer soldiers in leather armor. rather than use a sword.

This is why we eventually went with guns.


What leads people to think a sharp sword would "stick" is the misunderstaning of blade dynamics.
don't think knife.. or axe edge.

a straightrazor with a hollow grind would indeed stick... but we use different edge grinds ( angles) to provide a different type of cutting surface.

you can take a 1/2 inch thick khukuri with a shaving sharp convex grind, and chop a tree as thick as your thigh in half without sticking.

my 1/4 inch thick WSK will shave your face, and chop a fence post into kindling.
No sticking.