Can you prove evolution wrong

reply to post by Connector

Hey tooth, herein lies your problem....this is a SCIENTIFIC debate. Meaning, anything that can't be SCIENTIFICALLY substantiated (i.e tested), cannot be entered as evidence or claim. You just admitted it, the BIBLE CAN'T BE TESTED, therefore you can't use it as a verifiable piece of proof. WHY CAN"T you understand that? You are a borderline GENUS, science major, you should know that. That's it, you're done. Go join a philosophical debate because you have no OBSERVABLE or TESTABLE evidence, which is what is going on here.

Maybe I'll get drunk later and really......

Well I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but the supernatural had an involvement in our existence here long before we gained intelligence to understand what was going on. In fact the people involved were taken so much by the events that they wrote a book about it, called the bible. And it trumps science, it is still a historical document.

reply to post by wittgenstein

O.K. itsthetooth,
I disagree with you. However, let’s say you are right. Extraterrestrials created humans. How were Extraterrestrials created? You see, you have the same problem that theologians have, explaining how intelligence etc came from simple matter. Evolution has solved that.
For a theologian his/her problem is similar to yours. A theologian explains the complexity of a human's body by saying God designed it. However, that is not an explanation for complexity! That is like saying," a car is complex because it was created in a factory." A factory is far more complex then a car and therefore requires even more explanation!

In other words I have to pick one to believe in, and I have to have something to believe in because its only right that way.

I don't live by those rules. Understanding that ET may have created us was only insight I had noticed long before I ever head of anchient aliens BTW.

I think its important to know that what I believe is more that we were abducted. There are to many reasons that lead me to believe that. Now is it possible people were abducted and frankenstiened from others DNA, ya, we do that today. It's just that aliens have ALWAYS been guilty of abducting people, its nothing new thats for sure. If we were abducted, earth is not our home. This means that somewhere out there, in the big sky of stars is a planet that was actually made just for us to inhabit. Life there wouldn't be anything like it is here, and per the bible, thats a fact.

reply to post by itsthetooth


The bible is considered a historical document historical document because it provides information on the society and customs of the people living at the time it was written. I believe the opening lines from the wikipedia page you quoted are:

Biblical archaeology is the archaeology that relates to and sheds light upon the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament. It is used to help determine the lifestyle and practices of people living in biblical times.

In the same way, the Iliad is a historical document which provides valuable insight into the shipbuilding and handling practices of ancient Greece. The Iliad is not considered evidence of the existence of olympian gods and cyclops in the Mediterranean Sea. The fact that the bible is considered to have some historical value in furthering our understanding of known history does not give you carte blanche to believe everything in it is even remotely factual, much less state that it somehow trumps modern science and facts.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

So what you're basicall saying is:

The bible is proof because thanks to the supernatural everything is possible...magic

Well then, enjoy your gods with elephant heads and talking snakes

I see, and you make this assertation based on the incredible understanding of knowledge of our own science.

In other words, these things just can't be, and you personally know this, how again?

Because we can actually test things. That's how we know the whole living inside whales is nonsense...or that evolution is a solid theory because we are actively applying it.

reply to post by mastermindkar

In the same way, the Iliad is a historical document which provides valuable insight into the shipbuilding and handling practices of ancient Greece. The Iliad is not considered evidence of the existence of olympian gods and cyclops in the Mediterranean Sea. The fact that the bible is considered to have some historical value in furthering our understanding of known history does not give you carte blanche to believe everything in it is even remotely factual, much less state that it somehow trumps modern science and facts.

Is the Iliad the largest selling book on the planet? Is it quoted to be in the supernatural section? I think not. Your comparing apples to rocks.

This one goes out to flyingfish

Rather than engage in a point-by-point response to the textual interpretation of Tooth's beliefs (as I would certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments), I want to respond to the more general issue at hand. As is customary for a letter of this sort, I will now offer up paper and ink anent the phylogeny of Tooth's brutal, arrogant manuscripts in order to make the point that everyone ought to read my award-winning essay, "The Naked Aggression of Tooth". In it, I chronicle all of Tooth's traducements from the conceited to the effete and conclude that unlike Tooth, when I make a mistake I'm willing to admit it. Consequently, if—and I'm bending over backwards to maintain the illusion of "innocent until proven guilty"—he were not actually responsible for trying to concoct a version of reality that fully contradicts real life, then I'd stop saying that Tooth has—not once, but several times—been able to insult my intelligence without anyone stopping him. How long can that go on? As long as his linguacious smear tactics are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and maintain social tranquillity.

Everybody knows that there are people better equipped to cope with life than anal-retentive champions of deceit, lies, theft, plunder, and rapine, but you should consider that Tooth and his janissaries are infernal malefactors. This is not set down in complaint against them but merely as analysis. I try never to argue with him because it's clear he's not susceptible to reason. I'm sticking out my neck a bit in talking about Tooth's prevarications. It's quite likely he will try to retaliate against me for my telling you that he likes values that reinforce the impression that incontinent, neo-infantile gomerals—as opposed to Tooth's expositors—are striving to make bigotry respectable. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that Tooth can't throw away his integrity and expect the world to respect him for it. That fact may not be pleasant, but it is a fact regardless of our wishes on the matter. I would like to end on a heartfelt note. Tooth uses resistentialism as a subtle poison to dry up the sound serum of morality on which this board used to thrive.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Because we can actually test things. That's how we know the whole living inside whales is nonsense...or that evolution is a solid theory because we are actively applying it.

I guess you missed the whole point the last time I explained this to you. The bible is referenced as being in the supernatural section. It was written because of this. It's a safe assumption that element is all thorugh out the book, there is no comment or switch to tell us the exact parts. Did it not ever occur to you that this is perhaps the whole reason why the book was written to begin with?

Your claiming that scientists have tried to reacreate the possibility of living in a whale. I wasn't aware they had also learned and gained access to supernatural abilitys. To think that your going to recreate such an event without that help, then turn around and call it a fair assesment is just bat crazy.

reply to post by itsthetooth


You can't just claim "magic is real" without providing any proof and objective evidence

This isn't fantasy land...we're living in the real world...well...most of us anyway

Originally posted by Connector
This one goes out to flyingfish

Rather than engage in a point-by-point response to the textual interpretation of Tooth's beliefs (as I would certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments), I want to respond to the more general issue at hand. As is customary for a letter of this sort, I will now offer up paper and ink anent the phylogeny of Tooth's brutal, arrogant manuscripts in order to make the point that everyone ought to read my award-winning essay, "The Naked Aggression of Tooth". In it, I chronicle all of Tooth's traducements from the conceited to the effete and conclude that unlike Tooth, when I make a mistake I'm willing to admit it. Consequently, if—and I'm bending over backwards to maintain the illusion of "innocent until proven guilty"—he were not actually responsible for trying to concoct a version of reality that fully contradicts real life, then I'd stop saying that Tooth has—not once, but several times—been able to insult my intelligence without anyone stopping him. How long can that go on? As long as his linguacious smear tactics are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and maintain social tranquillity.

Everybody knows that there are people better equipped to cope with life than anal-retentive champions of deceit, lies, theft, plunder, and rapine, but you should consider that Tooth and his janissaries are infernal malefactors. This is not set down in complaint against them but merely as analysis. I try never to argue with him because it's clear he's not susceptible to reason. I'm sticking out my neck a bit in talking about Tooth's prevarications. It's quite likely he will try to retaliate against me for my telling you that he likes values that reinforce the impression that incontinent, neo-infantile gomerals—as opposed to Tooth's expositors—are striving to make bigotry respectable. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that Tooth can't throw away his integrity and expect the world to respect him for it. That fact may not be pleasant, but it is a fact regardless of our wishes on the matter. I would like to end on a heartfelt note. Tooth uses resistentialism as a subtle poison to dry up the sound serum of morality on which this board used to thrive.

edit on 27-7-2012 by Connector because: (no reason given)

Touché Sir Connector.
I bow down before you and lay my arms at your feet!

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by TheJackelantern

 

Going to say this bluntly.. Either back it up academically and prove it or seriously sit down.. It's pathetic you sit here and expect people to take your imagination seriously on an appeal to ignorance. Now normally I don't mind fantasy talk, but you aren't in a thread that tolerates fantasy over empirically supported and academically supports positions.

You know as well as I do that biblical things cant be proven academically. However your are at the same time saying that if it can't be, then it can't be truth, and you know that isn't so.

I doubt very seriously that just because something can't be proven academically, that it automatically means it can't be true. Thats a very odd belief, and shows that your not an honest person.

Well, given that there's hundreds of things that have been scientifically proven to be wrong in the bible....it makes all the sense in the world to not look at the bible for proof

I'm not saying to look at the bible as proof regarding science vs the bible. People have embellished stories off real events for a very long time. Often incorporated with their era's traditions, beliefs, folk lore, mythologies, and religions ect. Hence, Exodus is likely a very embellished story, and perhaps even a fictional story based on a real event. This being an example of course because Exodus is written shortly after Mount Thera's eruption.. An Eruption large enough to destroy civilizations and reek havoc on anything in it's destructive path. And this is just a fact that such an eruption would have a profound effect in the region..And well it did.. This Eruption has been recorded even in the Chinese records. That is how far that ash cloud went in terms of recorded records,. None of modern man has ever witnessed something of that magnitude. Yep, not even a hydrogen bomb could compare to it..It would be equal to Yellow stone erupting and taking out half the US out with volcanic Ash. There is some historical truth in the Bible even though much of it is mythology.. Just like embellished flood myths are likely based on real events. Otherwise I agree with your argument .. And where the bible really starts to stray from being historically accurate is when Christianity was born. An add-on religion to which is literally a copy paste religion ripped from everyone else.. This to which includes the Egyptian proverbs to right down to how the Egyptians marked their kings with thorn olive branch crowns in their tombs. Same with the concept of pinning their GOD's to crosses is clearly used by Christianity. But it makes sense giving Moses, if real, was likely an Egyptian who married a Midian Priests daughter. You have Egyptian mythology mixing with Midian mountain god mythology .. And of course with others in the region as well.

No remember I was once a evangelical Christian and I used to believe this GOD was real, and that Christianity was historically accurate, and all the crap in the bible was absolute truth.. Right up till about 6 years ago when I actually critically reading it in an effort to find out more about it's history.. That reality check wasn't a fun one, and neither was realizing that when advertizing for the church was essentially brainwashing people whom were vulnerable and easy to manipulate. And did I ever get shunned for leaving the Church. But what can you do once you realize it's all BS?, and learn what it really is?

reply to post by MrXYZ

You can't just claim "magic is real" without providing any proof and objective evidence

This isn't fantasy land...we're living in the real world...well...most of us anyway

This is where I began to realize that I'm up against children in this matter that try to replace a meaning with another meaning because it's the only way they can try to understand it.

Supernatural is not magic, by any means. Notice how the word natural is part of the term. These are NORMAL abilities just like you and I have like seeing and hearing. Powers like telepathy might be called supernatural to us but that doesn't mean they aren't natural.

If your using the word magic to try to mock me, then your a child, with a childs understanding, as well as a childs vocabulary.
If your using the word magic because it seems to be the closest thing you can grasp onto to try to understand, then I totally understand and respect the fact that you are at least trying. On the flip side of that, its not even close. Magic is nothing more than diversion and trickery. There is none of that in supernatural, its the real deal, which is why its not called magic.

I'm not sure if your getting this, so let me make another example for you. Lets say that our ability to see with our eyes is exclusive to us here on earth, no other species has it. Extend that idea to other life in the cosmos, they too might think we posses magic, but its just supernatural.

Hope that clears it up for you, no one wants to see you continue to make an ass out of yourself

reply to post by TheJackelantern

I'm not saying to look at the bible as proof regarding science vs the bible. People have embellished stories off real events for a very long time. Often incorporated with their era's traditions, beliefs, folk lore, mythologies, and religions ect. Hence, Exodus is likely a very embellished story, and perhaps even a fictional story based on a real event. This being an example of course because Exodus is written shortly after Mount Thera's eruption.. An Eruption large enough to destroy civilizations and reek havoc on anything in it's destructive path. And this is just a fact that such an eruption would have a profound effect in the region..And well it did.. This Eruption has been recorded even in the Chinese records. That is how far that ash cloud went in terms of recorded records,. None of modern man has ever witnessed something of that magnitude. Yep, not even a hydrogen bomb could compare to it..It would be equal to Yellow stone erupting and taking out half the US out with volcanic Ash. There is some historical truth in the Bible even though much of it is mythology.. Just like embellished flood myths are likely based on real events. Otherwise I agree with your argument .. And where the bible really starts to stray from being historically accurate is when Christianity was born. An add-on religion to which is literally a copy paste religion ripped from everyone else.. This to which includes the Egyptian proverbs to right down to how the Egyptians marked their kings with thorn olive branch crowns in their tombs. Same with the concept of pinning their GOD's to crosses is clearly used by Christianity. But it makes sense giving Moses, if real, was likely an Egyptian who married a Midian Priests daughter. You have Egyptian mythology mixing with Midian mountain god mythology .. And of course with others in the region as well.

No remember I was once a evangelical Christian and I used to believe this GOD was real, and that Christianity was historically accurate, and all the crap in the bible was absolute truth.. Right up till about 6 years ago when I actually critically reading it in an effort to find out more about it's history.. That reality check wasn't a fun one, and neither was realizing that when advertizing for the church was essentially brainwashing people whom were vulnerable and easy to manipulate. And did I ever get shunned for leaving the Church. But what can you do once you realize it's all BS?, and learn what it really is?

God had an agenda, and it wasn't good. God was also not good to us. Punishing us through what I can tell seems to be genetics is genocide.

God had an agenda, and it wasn't good. God was also not good to us. Punishing us through what I can tell seems to be genetics is genocide.

LMAO... ... dude, you make the insane seem normal :/

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42

 

So you don’t claim to be a science a major? Told you were a borderline genius? Recognise things in the bible lifelong scholars are not aware of? Or that you have discovered an arcane virus, whatever that is?

And you would be wrong again, I never said I wasn't a science major. I'm told per my score that I am borderline genius. As far as recognizing things in the bible, like I keep saying, I'm obviously not the first.

So how am I trying to put words in your mouth? If indeed I had it would mean it would be the first sensible and honest thing to come out of your mouth

reply to post by TheJackelantern


I congratulate you for forcing yourself to think critically...not many manage this and then admit they once believed in the wrong thing. Critical thinking ftw

reply to post by itsthetooth

We all agree we are not from earth.

I take it by we you are referring to your Sunday school group

I think when you have to be incredulous to the point that you have to lie and make things up to fit your belief, that its a good indication your on the wrong track.

For once you are correct. So why do you keep doing it?

I was referring to YOU.

I know but somehow you missed the target and described yourself.

I have succeeded in stumping you and all others on this thread that were unable to prove we are from earth in the catagorys I chose. In addition to this I also gave reason why and how that was, and proved you wrong. We clearly are not from here.

Did you watch the clip on Billy Liar I supplied? It is so you. Like him you are a legend in your own mind. Everyone else regarded you as a dishonest, delusional backwater boy who has no contact or comprehension of the world in which he lives.

I think you being incredulous stems from you actually believing that man has an answer for everything, and that man knows everything, and there is nothing that we don't know. I hate to break it to you but your wrong.

You got it the wrong way again Pinocchio. Science first discovers the questions to ask and then tries to find the answers and the evidence to support those answers. Religious fundamentalists like you believe you have all the answers and need no proof.

No matter how many times you spout off about someone being wrong, I hate to break it to you but to be able to do that you need to provide the evidence that proves it. Something you have never done and because your fantasy is so weak, you never will. Get over yourself dude.

Evolution was just a replacement religion to replace christianity, thats all.

Your really worship at the feet of the god of ignorance don’t you. Many Christians have accepted evolution as have many Muslims Buddhists and Hindu's. Evolution cannot replace a faith because it is a science. A set of answered questions that show a process we call evolution. When you grow up you will understand this.

I'm referring to whats happened in the bible.

What’s happened in the bible? Boy oh boy. You are in such a mess over a simple statement that you explain and believe the answer to everything is 'Aliens did it'. Pathetic

reply to post by itsthetooth


It is magic because you can't explain it with facts and objective evidence...or prove it happened in the first place. Hell, most of the time the stuff you claim is DEMONSTRABLY wrong, so the only way you "make it fit" in your little mind is by applying magic...which is the same as the supernatural. You just call it "supernatural" because calling it "magic" would make it clear what nonsense that mini-religion of yours is

reply to post by itsthetooth

I allready did, but as usuall you don't listen, its called the tower of babble.

I agree you are babbling but I still require an answer too:

You claimed black and white people probably come from different planets. I am trying to establish what people the bible is referring too. You are doing your best to avoid answering that question. Do that now.

What it comes down to Colin, is that it appears that all of this nonsense about people just appearing out of no where makes a lot more sense if they were actually just being abducted.

Only in your world Pinocchio do people just appear out of nowhere and to maintain that world you have to ignore all the evidence that shows they did not. Even if they did an unsupported guess is not the answer until it has supporting evidence that can stand up to peer review. Something you cannot do.

In case you didn't know, thats exactly what aliens do, they abduct people.

Yep just like tooth fairies collect teeth. How old are you? Do I hear ten?

I'm sorry if that comes as a shock to you, but I think even a first grader with limited knowledge about the subject at least knows of this happening.

Oh I see six then. Can’t say I am surprised.

Believing in it I guess is another story all together. Anyhow, even in the genesis sections of the bible there are key elements to strongly elude to the idea that we were actually abducted rather than our understanding of being created.

Nope. In your opinion there are key elements. You have to base that opinion on belief based assumptions only. You could not even give me a good reason why aliens may have not brought us here to save us from a dying planet rather than to mine for gold. Pathetic

There are parts of the bible that concur with the idea that God was using genetics to control us, and mold us into what he wanted, that however doesn't mean that he made us from scratch.

Again just more foundation less assumptions and opinions.

Or could black people have been the race that inhabited the planet before we did? It's hard to say.

So if black people did not come as you said earlier from another planet but now were already here then humans belong here. The food here is correct for our species.

Answer this. How do you know that if black people were already here they were not originally shipped to fooltopia to mine for gold. Did their time and were brought back to the planet where they fit?

I don't know that they emphasize on color and race until the tower of babble.

I couldn’t give a fig. I asked you to explain why black people are black and white people white. 5 pages on you still cannot give me an answer. I am still waiting for you to do so.

I wrote: Nope. You base your opinions on what you believe the authors of various parts of the bible wrote and they wrote their opinion of what they claimed happened. AKA your opinion.

No I don't have an opinion on what they wrote.

Pinocchio. All you have is your opinion. That is why you cannot supply any evidence. Why you resort to lies when your opinion is shown to be ridiculous. Before you say that I am making an assumption I have 450 pages that will act as evidence.

Depends on ........... intended food crap ........... no need to read further

I don't know what color or race was here first, and I don't think the book explains that either.

Then it is not a clear historical document. If you don’t know who was here first all you know is that we are here so where is the evidence for your silly home grown religion?

From DNA. We all have different DNA. different races can be identified by unique DNA.

Tut tut science major. Every human has different DNA. Do we all come from our own individual planets

You assumed first, and like I stated there are other things that suggest that statement is referring to DNA.

Nope it followed the exact path I described:

Nope. I quoted what the bible says. Man is made in gods image. You made an assumption that it was the image seen through a microscope. You made the assumption not me.

Originally posted by TheJackelantern

God had an agenda, and it wasn't good. God was also not good to us. Punishing us through what I can tell seems to be genetics is genocide.

LMAO...

... dude, you make the insane seem normal :/

I dont even think he read a word he did not want to read which runs along the lines you explained when you wrote

Right up till about 6 years ago when I actually critically reading it in an effort to find out more about it's history..

Tooth totally lacks that ability.

reply to post by TheJackelantern

LMAO... ... dude, you make the insane seem normal :/

It's an insane chain of events, hey maybe thats why they wrote a book about it.