Big banks in France being downgraded by Moody over PIIGS debt holdings

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Does any of this really matter? China posturing, the US posturing, the EU posturing, all for alleged control? A war, ROFL!

War is gonna come. count on it. There's too much at stake. Wars bring fantastic stuff.

reply to post by Aristophrenia


The term should be PIIGSU. Since the UK is just as pathetic.

Here something to consider. All nations related to a monarchy (British, Belgian, Danish, Norwegian, Sweden, Luxembourg) are all AAA status. This includes a good portion of the British Common Wealth (Canada and Australia). France, Germany, Slovenia and Switzerland are also AAA, but with recent news of France being downgraded validates my gut feeling from months ago when the US was downgraded. Old monarchies are behind this economic downturn. They're seizing power back using our economic system. Think about it. If the Rothschild bankers control the world through the economic system (central and global banks), who were their biggest clients hundreds of years ago? Who invested in them and allowed them to flourish? Who did the Rothschilds report to? European monarchies. The world banks are fundamentally tied to old monarchies. If my theory is correct, than Slovenia will be next followed by Germany. Switzerland will be the last non-monarch nation to be downgraded only because this nation holds the banks that hold much of the world's money including those of monarchs. Spain is also a monarch but has been a mortal enemy of northern European monarchs for centuries.

Take a look at this picture:

Postcard from Ireland,

Downgrade all you like ye moody flucks, your bull# is not welcome, by the German, French, Greece, Portuguese Irish, Spanish, and especially the Icelandic people, the governing bodies might see things differently, but the people see..they see!!

Yours not so truly

THE PEOPLE

is pitchforks and torches the answer?otherwise tptb will starve us into submission.then we will have no choice but to fight their wars.the choice is clear right now but wont be so on an empty stomach.my guess is they have already invested in the asian markets.buffetts own daughter is learning manderin.

reply to post by Vitchilo


and PPT from europe and in usa proceeded to buy every stock in the world 2 days in a row

market has been heavily rigged since 2009

Originally posted by eldard

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Does any of this really matter? China posturing, the US posturing, the EU posturing, all for alleged control? A war, ROFL!

War is gonna come. count on it. There's too much at stake. Wars bring fantastic stuff.

Nothing is at stake. If everyone is in debt or everyone is solvent, it's the same thing, it's all relative. The bankers have created an illusion of reality and apparently you and a lot of other people are falling for it!

Listen up, being in MI/CI and serving in campaigns in Africa, I understand that war makes money for a select few, in many cases big money. Been there done that, got the t-shirt, was told to go to hell, been there to, it was hot. But more seriously, you don't make war with your suppliers or your customers, that's bad business, unless you think you have the balls to take on everyone at the same time and win. Now to be straight EuroWhore, AmeroWhore or AsiaWhore will come up very short if they try to go it alone, two will have to tag team. So war, yeah it'll come, but not WW3. It will be a battle to nail a couple of third world countries or 1st world comer-ups like Iran or maybe North Korea. Anything else would be stupid, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. This is about colonization by BANKS and CORPORATIONS, it's about resource rape and the coming control of water and air-able land. It has nothing to do with exporting democracy. I always find it funny, but there is no democracy in corporations, it's all totalitarian dictatorship and fascism and it's already here. And yet, we make governments into corporations LOL.

Now you might say it's the IMF or the Bilderbergers or some other boogie man that will start a world wide rumble. Hey, it's not in their best interests either. The all out cacophony of random war doesn't do them any good really and the tide can turn against them very fast. They may want population reduction, but they really do want to control it. So full scale world war, very unlikely. However, surgical strikes in large areas masquerading via the MSM as WW3, very possible as it fits in with the program of the controlled "demolition" of (human) assets. You know, the majority of us?

Remember that whatever they say it is, it isn't. But just be prepared anyways, better to die on your feet than serve on your knees.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by eldard

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
Does any of this really matter? China posturing, the US posturing, the EU posturing, all for alleged control? A war, ROFL!

War is gonna come. count on it. There's too much at stake. Wars bring fantastic stuff.

Nothing is at stake. If everyone is in debt or everyone is solvent, it's the same thing, it's all relative. The bankers have created an illusion of reality and apparently you and a lot of other people are falling for it!

Listen up, being in MI/CI and serving in campaigns in Africa, I understand that war makes money for a select few, in many cases big money. Been there done that, got the t-shirt, was told to go to hell, been there to, it was hot. But more seriously, you don't make war with your suppliers or your customers, that's bad business, unless you think you have the balls to take on everyone at the same time and win. Now to be straight EuroWhore, AmeroWhore or AsiaWhore will come up very short if they try to go it alone, two will have to tag team. So war, yeah it'll come, but not WW3. It will be a battle to nail a couple of third world countries or 1st world comer-ups like Iran or maybe North Korea. Anything else would be stupid, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. This is about colonization by BANKS and CORPORATIONS, it's about resource rape and the coming control of water and air-able land. It has nothing to do with exporting democracy. I always find it funny, but there is no democracy in corporations, it's all totalitarian dictatorship and fascism and it's already here. And yet, we make governments into corporations LOL.

Now you might say it's the IMF or the Bilderbergers or some other boogie man that will start a world wide rumble. Hey, it's not in their best interests either. The all out cacophony of random war doesn't do them any good really and the tide can turn against them very fast. They may want population reduction, but they really do want to control it. So full scale world war, very unlikely. However, surgical strikes in large areas masquerading via the MSM as WW3, very possible as it fits in with the program of the controlled "demolition" of (human) assets. You know, the majority of us?

Remember that whatever they say it is, it isn't. But just be prepared anyways, better to die on your feet than serve on your knees.

Cheers - Dave

edit on 9/14.2011 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

You make sense. I don't think the war will be positioned in a way that will not be beneficial the those that are masterminding any of the this economic meltdown, but you can't avoid the rules of chaos theory where all the best laid plans can go wrong. Where a pseudo WW3 can be turned into a real WW3 at the flip of a dime. For example, "they" attack North Korea and Iran at once and call it WW3 which really it isn't but then suddenly some head of state dies or something else happens (like people not willing to play along) and relations strain between China, US and Russia blowing up into an unexpected war of an unpredictable outcome. I doubt Hilter was predicted (besides in certain prophecies).

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


It ain't about the money, honey. it's all about technology. Iran and Aghanistan was invaded not just for their resources, but also to surround someone. Care to guess who?

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by CaptGizmo

 

Yes we are not in the Euro.

However some of our banks are quite heavily exposed to many of the countries with debt problems, not just Greece.

Will they once again be bailed out? Would we have any choice?

Of course the U.K. also does much of its trade with Europe, so any further downturn would inevitably impact companies involved in this trade.

British banks are up to heir necks in Euro-debt - let's not kid ourselves here. In fact, after Germany, I think they hold more Euro-debt than anyone. Plus, the UK is far from a wealthy country, and is itself suffering heavily from the global downturn. So yes, the UK will be in a world of hurt if the European banks fall..

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

It ain't about the money, honey. it's all about technology. Iran and Aghanistan was invaded not just for their resources, but also to surround someone. Care to guess who?

Iran was invaded?

You'd better tell the Iranians this...

Originally posted by Raskadawg
i see some people saying this could lead to the creation of a single global currency.
how when the single euro currency is in such dire straits, it looking like it is bound to fail sooner or later, can a single global currency work?

just looking for an explanation, im no economist

It is not going to be a global currency, just an international trading currency. So far the US$ and to to some extent the Euro, Yen and the Swiss Franc served as international trading currencies with the rest of the world using these currencies to pay for imports and as payment for their exports.

The situation was partly by design (Bretton-Woods agreement after WWII explicitly committed the member countries, all Western, to use the US$ as their international trading currency) and partly because of market forces. Every country that has any imports needs to stock up on its international trading currency reserves to pay for a few weeks/months of exports in order to avoid a chaos even if their exports suddenly lose demand because of circumstances beyond their control. This is like an individual having a few weeks/months worth of bills in his bank account to pay for them even if he/she loses the job. If the country is an export surplus country like China, these reserves keep getting larger and larger and it wouldn't make sense to hold them as currency because due to inflation these would lose value and would make sense to invest in a way where they at least do not lose their value. The most common way of parking these excess funds is in the government bonds of the country/region issuing the currency, something that was considered extremely low risk. However with both the Eurozone and US facing internal economic collapse, there is tremendous pressure on the governments of US and Eurozone countries to increase public spending to stave of economic collapse. But there is no confidence globally that these economies will recover in the near term. That means there is very little chance of these governments being able to raise the money needed to increase public spending by borrowing, because few private individuals/agencies or foreign governments holding these currencies believe they will be able to honour the debt in future. Which leaves the governments with only one avenue to raise the money, borrowing from the central bank, which is effectively printing more money without any change in the GDP. That creates very high inflation with a possibility of hyperinflation. That is a very scary thought for the foreign countries holding these currencies in reserve. About the only currency that everyone knows will buy them something of value long into the future is the Chinese Yuan. However there are few countries that want to switch to trading in Yuan, most of the reasons being doubts about the longterm stability of the political system in China, which could impact the value of the currency. There is no other market alternative to this scenario. With increasing international trade there is a need for an international trading currency and no one really wants to revert to settling international trade in gold as was done before WWII, simply because there is not enough gold to go around doing that unless the gold prices become several times what they are now, something no one is seriously interested in.

So in order to address the need for an international trading currency an international agency like the IMF may create a currency the volume of whose supply will be controlled by a consortium of all the major stakeholders (countries with a large volume of international trade) unlike a national/regional currency where major stakeholders, like China, are left out of the decision about the volume of the currency.

Different countries/regions can and will still issue their own currencies, but these currencies will not be useful for buying anything outside the country/region. All imports and exports will be settled in terms of the international trading currency and a country's/region's decision to inflate its national/regional currency will only impact the price of their imports/exports, but not the savings of the export surplus countries.

reply to post by CantSay


Hey don't bring little old Australia into your conspiricy theory about AAA ratings. our ecconomy
floats pretty well on the back of massive chines construction boom, and properly regulated banks.
Their are massive holes in the ground now form all the mining that has gone on. but that won't matter
a fig if china slows down too mutch on the back of it, considering that inflation in china is above 6%.
Hyperinflation and a massive slow down might give china impidus to do something rash.
It has a massive millitary in terms of man power and military tech, no country on earth would have
the resources to figh a prolonged military campain, My biggest fear is that china will use it might instead
of loosing it's current footing. Not tiwan, or the us or japan, but a japanies style rampage through SE asia
gaining teritory and resources. If they didn't threaten the US directly i think that all other alliances would
be subject to re-negotiation. that is my nighmare.

Australia is indeed a lucky country. With its HUGE landmass filled with resources both above and below, as well as a talented educated workforce, its growth potential is high for centuries to come, so long as it can get rid of its rather eurocentric racial issues.

There will be NO wars, at least not on the international scale due to the financial crisis. With an awakened democratic mankind with elected systems of governance that had became more aware of the deprediations done by banks, corporations and super rich elites for centuries, humankind will just stand by and watch these minority implode against each other with a matter of weeks if not days.

Even if these minority wants to play 'wag the dog', it would be impossible to do so at this stage, for they themselves are already being tugged hard by their tails if not booted soundly by their own people in regular and growing public protests, to heed futher lies.

Even public uproar and protests are being held in Israel. The suffering people too are sick of their own rulers and elites.

The Russian bear knows which side their bread is buttered. Their treasuries are kept with stocks of gold and US dollar reserves. As US reserves are pretty safe at the moment, there is no cause for them to raise a ruckus.

The Chinese brutal and murderous CCP gov are up to their necks in debts to their 1.3billion much awared citizens whom are waiting for an opportunity to seize back their motherland from such tyrants once the military looks the other way to start wars in foreign lands. The CCP gov may be fools, but they are not stupid if they want to remain in power by starting wars.

The middle east are far too concern with their own new found freedoms to want to lose it in a war which may see such freedoms lost once the army takes over. They too had been ruled by the military for far too long and knows what is at stake.

Asians are far too contented with their wealth today to wanna rock the boat, with much of 'hot' capitals flowing into their countries, keeping employment and investments going on.

Thus, the banks, corporations and super elites stand alone today. There had never been another opportunity like this to watch them pay for their enslavement of free mankind. We are living in interesting times. The picking up of pieces to evolve and progress by a much educated and intelligent freed humanity will be worth it.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
After WW2, with the various aids supplied to Europe from wealthy US whom got rich from military supplies, wealth was redistribute back to Europe. In time, the connected upper classes regained their wealth. But most unfortunately, they did not redistribute it to their own people that US did. They got richer and with that wealth, it was hoarded in banks.

In time, the European banks had more assets then they knew what to do with it, and thus, insane poverty inducing products were created, spending unconscionably and unwisely by lending it to political parties and their cronies.

Do you have a link for this? You seem to be suggesting kind wealthy America 'gave' money to Europe. It actually loaned it and it took more than 50 years for the UK alone to pay off its debt of that money - including interest. The 'upper classes' did not regain their wealth through this, not sure what history books you have been reading, but they aren't particularly strong in the fact department (hint, look for the Marshall plan, money loaned to help the fact that the UK and other countries had crippled their output through fighting the 1939 - 1945 war known as WW2).

reply to post by something wicked


Thanks for your reply. If you know about the Marshall plan, then if you understood economics and how the real world works, then you would have a better understanding on my post.

Remember always that loans are but a means of 'gearing' wealth - the profits generated from that loan are more than offset by its regulated repayments. You pay the stipulated and required loan repayments spread out over a determined period of time, but any profits made is all yours to keep.

Put simply for easier comprehension:- when you rent out your newly bought house through loans, would you ask for the monthly rentals based exactly as your loan repayments? Unlikely so, for above the other intangible costs of taxes, renovations, locations, etc, you would assess your market conditions and price accordingly, and often, very much higher than the loan repayment amounts. Those are your rental PROFITS to keep, while you pay the smaller loan repayments. That's called 'gearing'.

Overtime, your profits will escalate and be substantial. And that's just for rental. Think of the financial appreciation when you sell as the economy developes over time. It would be a goldmine. More so for corporations handed to you on a silver platter after a horrendous war when mankind have needs to be met on a daily basis.

Who benefitted from such loans? You may claim that it was those elected govs that were given the loans. But then, ask yourself, who were the ones then had the trust, the knowledge, the experience and most critically - the connections, to rebuild the economy? They were none other than the previous elites.

Look around the world today at brand names of corporations of both Japan and Germany. Names such as Mitsubishi, BMW are still alive despite their contribution to the axis brutal efforts. These are just the tip of the iceburg and examples based upon the unfriendlies after the war. Think about the huge amount of friendlies. Need I say more?

All I want to say at this point to you is to think out of the box, beyond just mere words of what had been taught to you, and EXTRAPOLIATE logically and reasonably based upon current facts around the world to form your own opinions, or you will be forever blindsided and never know what hit you when it comes upon you one day suddenly, like many billions of those in the world still asleep.....

reply to post by CantSay


I fully agree, Chaos Theory dictates that anything that can happen has a non-zero probability of happening. As I said though, the "orches-traitors" of these events can overstep in their confidence and arrogance and the tables will turn on them. But unfortunately, most of the damage will already have been done.

And for Jimbo999, I didn't say that Iran was invaded. Eldard said that the surrounding countries were invaded.

Cheers - Dave

No matter what happens, or if even the worst happens that banks fall, always remember those are private enterprises that are only existing in capitalist societies. They vowed and swored for capitalism - privatising profits but socialising costs. They had benefitted for centuries, and now because they got too greedy, they will fall, none to blame but only themselves. It's only capitalism that they lived by and will die by. Hell if society is to socialise debts for them after a painful bailout earlier.

Also remember that when the banks fall, it will not be the end of the world. Earth still have resources and mankind still have needs to be met. No european needs to starve as long the wealth of the land is shared. Furthermore existing economic infrastructure WILL STILL bring in revenues and financial values - tourism, shipping, trade, agriculture,etc, etc. And such revenues must remain in the citizens pockets and their families to survive, not to turn over to banks to pay for sovereign debts.

Banks fall, but life goes on and will have to go on. Europe is still ruled by law, thus it will be the legal ways such as civil suits to resolve financial matters and not violent arms, unless someone is stupid enough to try and get burned in return. The masses aint gonna just sit by quietly, and watch creditors march in freely and place collar shackles onto each of them.