I can see a scenario taking place which is fulfulling biblical prophecy.

Originally posted by mikeybiznaz

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MitchL61

 

Are you prepared to die for what you believe ?

Anyday, everyday, allday. I believe you have something here. I do know that if I live long enough ? I may have to die for what I believe. YES.

FnS

edit on 12-9-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Your words came up in another thread. About getting kicked off your own property and someone said in a post I will do what I have to to protect my land so I put it like this...I know this isnt biblical martyrdom here in this quote but what I an talking about here is there are talkers and there are doers and actions speak louder than words,,,enjoy my meaning here :::::

actions speak louder than words...once was a guy that saw an add by a Lawyer. "you dont have to pay your taxes and I will show you how it works and represent you when the time comes" so to make long story short this guy was in the house when 40 federal marshals show up with 1 tax collector. Tax guy knocked on the door. Guy says "its my property and I will protect it." Sound of a shotgun chambering a round from inside the house. Tax guy walks back out to the marshals. The sound of 40 shotguns chambering rounds. Guy in house says I give up. Actions speak louder than words

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Good thread guys I'm enjoying the differing opinions.

Having worked in Law Enforcement for over 15 years at both a State and Federal Agency I had a good laugh at the analogy above.

There is not even a slim chance of ever hearing a round being chambered bye any suspect in this sort of situation. SOP for all Federal Agencies is to fully brief the team and gear up prior to ever setting foot near the destination. That means Body Armor on and weapons fully loaded with one in the chamber ready to go before your feet ever hit the ground

I used to laugh at Cop shows when they did similar things. Pardon the interruption but I couldn't resist posting

Please do carry on.

This thread about bible prophecy is quite informative. I appreciate the intelligent dialogue.
Concerning the sequence of events, I am curious about what Jesus said (Matt 24:6-8) about there being wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. Event to the point of famines and earth quakes...are but the beginning of the birth pains.

At what point is mankind's war-filled-history are we to start the clock so to speak? So that we could say, oh, now is the time of wars that Jesus told us to not be alarmed about (yet).

Truthfully, I can only speculate, but it seems to me that wars, rumors of war, famines and earthquakes in various places has been occuring for a long time.

Maybe we won't know the time is close until they (Matt 24:9) deliver us up to tribulation and be put to death.

But further, in v15 Jesus says that when we see the abomination of/that causes desolation in the holy place we are to flee...and in v21 Jesus says...For then there will be a great tribulation...

Seems to me that the the wars, rumors of war, famine, eq, nation v. nation, come at some point(s), then the abomination comes, then the tribulation and being put to death. Though not all believers will be put to death b/c Jesus says in v13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. and v22 And if those days had not been cut short...

What gets confusing to me is that in my (English Standard Version) bible app, the next sentence v14 Jesus says And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed...then the end will come.
Using And instead of But makes it appear to me that it will occur after tribulation, so that the nations will still be learning of Jesus right into and through the tribulation.

It just has me thinking that knowing what is the abomination of desolation, and then when we see it, we would know we've crossed the tipping point.

Lastly, Jesus started the discussion of the close of the age by saying v4-5 See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they will lead many astray. Hasn't this been happening for many years? There is a pretty long history of false messiahs since Jesus spoke his words.

I see why no one will know the hour or the day. It is inevitable but still not very predictable to me.

OP,

I feel no need to state whether I believe or not, only to inform that I feel like you have (possibly inadvertently but somewhat thoughtlessly) created further and sewn division between believers and non believers by propagating such a situation of future conflict.

Hypothetically:
If I was told that I would be oppressed by atheists, I would obviously feel threatened by them and therefore a conflict is created.

If I was told that believers should fear me because I will one day oppress them, and that I was fulfilling their prophecy, I would be pissed off because I would most probably have no such intentions and if this was coming from a believer, I would feel that they must be pretty paranoid to think it up and therefore, again, conflict is created,

It probably was not your intention, OP, but complaints about division only sew division.
If there is to be oppression, it will be solely the decision of the future "elite" whether belief is enforced or discouraged, and for this we can not blame believers or atheists.


The qualities that unite us should be emphasized upon: Desire for peace and happiness as well as the personal search for truth.

No insult intended, and with respect to all

-Chlo

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
reply to post by MitchL61

 

I will never understand how our diversity divides us so, whether religious or otherwise! Or maybe it's not just our diversity but our ignorance or a fear of the unknown. I hope someday we will unite no matter what our differences!
We will learn to respect one another as well as learn from each other. We have come so far technologically but when we look at our progress socially we are still comparatively like neanderthals fighting over medial insignificant material aspects and ideals that we well know is every individuals right to believe what they will.
Maybe someday we will mature enough to bring the hand of friendship to every man, woman and child but will this happen before our hate, ignorance and fear destroys all that we have built? Every man is capable of getting along with each other and the key is to humble ourselves before each other! The Narcissist have no place in a peaceful future!

-just had to get a repost on this, and say i feel you! no matter how positive people can be there is almost always enough narcissism of canceling it. i agree we are forced upon fearing what we do not know...death, void, hell, heaven, all things that are triggers in programming. everybody needs to look into our heart chakras and feel that we are able-minded, and most importantly are gifted with free will. FREE...WILL... we sure as hell dont have freedom anywhere anymore unless WE create it. and its free...comes with the package. i truely hope we learn to love more than conspire, hate, lust, and FEAR.

Actually I do see some prophesies to watch currently. The Daniel prophesies to be specific. There are those would say the prophesies of Daniel were already fulfilled once but there is a problem with that approach. That being the various warnings Daniel placed in the prophesies on their timing. That being these verses.

Daniel

7-26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

8-19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
8-23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

10-14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

11-6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
11-35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
11-40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

12-4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
12-9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

All these verses warn about the time of the end, end of days, latter times, and the end. So what is the end? After looking at Daniel then you can draw one conclusion. The end is the end of the 70th week of Daniel 9. Which has yet to happen. How can I say that? Matthew 24-15 predicts the abomination of desolation happens after verse 14. When the gospel of the kingdom to come has been presented to all the nations/tribes/ethnic groups of the world. Simply the Abomination of desolation is a future event per Jesus Christ. As well the Antichrist of Revelation 13. Who appears to be the same guy from Daniel 7, 8, and 11.

So I would put this as simply as possible. The prophesies of Daniel in a twisted way appear to be repeating. And they bear watching. So here is the events Daniel appears to have predicted and then the future upcoming events per the prophesies.

Starting with the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979 up to 9-11-2001 it would appear was predicted by Daniel 11-2. When a powerful nation from the west would be attacked by 4 "kings or nations" from the area of ancient Persia. Today's middle east. And considering the prophesies of Daniel come from visions he had back then I would point out the 9-11 attack on Washington DC would look like an attack on a 21st century Greece to Daniel. All that Grecian-Roman architecture.

Then the prophesies jump to Daniel 8 where the attacked "Greece" attacks back and conquers 2 of those "kings" by breaking the 2 horns of the ram. Then it kills the ram The ram is the symbol of "Persia". Today's Iran.

So 10-7-01 and 3-19-02 mark the dates the 2 horns were broken. And that gives us the future events to watch for.

The conquering of Iran in Daniel 8. The death of the ram.

The implosion of the American Government and the rise of the 4 republic of Daniel 8 and 11-4.

The creation of the kingdoms of the north and south in Europe Africa, and Asia.

The signing of the 7 year agreement.

The attack on the Vatican in 11-7 and 8. And the start of WW3 if not WW4.

One odd thing about that war though. It reads like a WW2 story. Which begs the question" Why no nukes?" Unless....Maybe they were already used?

Just a timeline to watch for.

reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze

If TPTB are foolish enough to go nuclear, its their funeral as well.

Not necessarily.

Start researching government bunkers and off world secret installations.............TPTB have a escape plan and unfortunately most of us are not a part of it.

I can give you a list of books I've read on the subject.

Simply research though...........................once things start heating up on Planet Earth the 1% and a few of their goons will high tail it out of Dodge leaving the rest of us to fry.

That's why they're not as scared as one would think they should be.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Looks like we're about to see the beginning of the sixth trumpet war which will begin in the vicinity of the Euphrates River. Rumor has it that Great Britain, U.S.A. and Israel are going after Iran. I'm thinking that after this war a 7-year peace treaty will be signed. Three and half years later the tribulations begins when antichrist stands in the newly rebuilt Jewish Temple and proclaims himself "god" ... The world will wonder after this man! Not I!

reply to post by MitchL61


Believers will suffer and be mocked, Non-believers will mock and be forgiven by believers. Each will have their own time of suffering, if WW3 happens then all will suffer from the Eminence violence that will be unleashed. It is foolish to think that believers or non-believers will not both suffer horrible fates from a full blown global war.

Believe, don't believe it is a 50% - 50% bet..... I personally would rather have hope... than to think all is lost and once the lights go out that's it GAME OVER!!!!!!!!!

What will be will be...... Just prep for the worst and hope for the best.

reply to post by MitchL61


I believe in a higher power, but not necessarily in the traditional sense. Do I look down on others who don't feel as I do? Absolutely not, and I can tell you with a reasonable level of certainty that NOTHING could make me behave in such a way that I felt better than anyone else. While I'm sure the scenario you've outlined doesn't pertain to everyone, there are those out there who would be affected in that way. So we're left with would I die for my beliefs? Yes, I would. Because my belief is in helping my fellow man....not because I think God or Satan will punish me but, because in my heart, I know it's right.

To Krono:

Wow, some people on here claiming the "verified" that god exists. Utter nonsense, how can you verify his presence without seeing him/her/it? Witnessing a near death experience or having one? I saw my nan in the hospital when she was on her last legs, 3hours after i left she sadly passed away, I didn;t witness a presence.

God is way above phisical experience, He just IS. Not being able to see, doesn't means it doesn't exists.
Sorry about your nan. You say you didn't witnessed a presence? Are you sure? Who do you think that conforted you and made you feel better?

People tend to believe what makes them feel better, some just accept that there IS a creator, there IS a GOD. The ways to believe HIM, may be different, but He is still there.
IMHO, there's no such a thing as creationists and evolutionists are the only sides. I believe in a mix of both. Take a simple example of the dinosaurs. They lived in earth several million years more than we did. And even so, they took several million years to accomplish simple "evolution" mutations. But now take a look on us, mankind. From Neanderthal to what we are today there are "only" 300.000 years, which, evolutionary is nothing but a single "tic" in the natures clock. So, my theory is, some "superior" being took our species and changed it genetically to make evolution run faster and, so, we were "created". Some will say that this is pure BS. I say: think again, research and you'll see that this is the most feasable hypothesis.

hey fellas...
those who do not understand christianity, which is the truth, simply need to actually read maybe four short but interesting books in the bible. actually read some of it.

those who think proof of God isn't possible...catch this
there is no other book even close to the bible for astounding cohesiveness through 2600 years ...written by different authors.
How did someone predict that one man could fulfill 10 different details about the life and death of Jesus, written in the bible.....and have all of them come true?....the odds are 10 to the 17TH power. you stack dollar bills to the moon 76 times.....then go travel along and stop anywhere you want...... and pick one bill out from any of the 76 stacks.......that's the odds.
did you know the believers have supernatural help!...I know, it's like magic...supernatural....isn't that what you're after? It takes the confusion right out,...from this life. If you talk to Jesus, He will talk back!

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
I'm here to say that it will be like that.
You can image the level devastation that must come in order to get anybody (religious or not) to agree to a one world government, a one world currency and forced worship of one 'god' whether that be alien or an 'Antichrist pope'. Everybody, Christians, Athiests, buddhists, Native American etc will face, at the same time, the decision to worship something as 'god'. Gone will be religious freedom for everybody, and everybody will be in the same boat. The entire plan of the devil/Satan/evil (whatever you call it) is to deceive and to be worshipped by humanity. One will be in a state of begging for peace from the famines, wars, 'alien' invasion, earthquakes. And therein lies the trap - the 'saviour' that comes to promise that peace - At that point in time, people will hate God and anybody that insists on still worshipping Him. No matter what non believers feel about the bible, it is my God's word about our world, from beginning to end. Just as I know that He alone knows the exact day that I will take my last breath, He also knows the End of our world. Down to the last minute.

I can only pray that I'm there to witness His return.

" Will be" ?? Will?

Pop your head up a bit more, you dont need to even tilt it sideways anymore, and just take another look out there. What people are fearing is to come, already *is*..they just dont see it yet. So many still indulgent in the mark of false reality they need to see to keep their heads on straight.... total war only occurs when ppl are finally forced to drop that illusion and see what is, for what it really is.

Oh my horse for an extra N and A so we could all start worshiping Santana instead!


Ro

Originally posted by MitchL61
reply to post by DavidsHope

 

You seem very learned as far as scriptures are concerned. I'm curious if you are familiar with a scripture in Malachi chapter 4, verses 5-6

5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Do you believe Elijah has returned? And, if so, when and where?

Elijah returned, in the form of John the Baptist.

Why are people still listening to church leaders that claim the worldly nation of "Israel" today has anything to do with prophecy?

How can Christians be so backwards, worldly, and so in-the-flesh?

That is what Jesus was teaching against.

The followers of Jesus Christ are the real Jews; who were first called "Christians" at Antioch. But those say that they are Jews, they are not; but they are the synagogue of Satan.

Jesus said it, so why do you not hear it?

Jesus also said that Elijah returned was John the Baptist.

He said it, so why do you not hear it?

How can things so plain be made so incredibly complicated again? Except you haven't read.

If you read, you will understand. If you do not read, you are not going to understand.

For those that are blind, they read; but they read with their hearts.

Now also should you be reading, plainly, with your eyes, but with your hearts actually. Your eyes fool you and tell you that the nation of Israel today has to do with prophecy or the children of God. But it does not. The nation of Israel today is made by men, not God. But the children of God are made by Jesus Christ.

How many times does it need to be repeated?

And those things for which you seek in prophecy, you still misconstrue, so greatly, because you are blinded as to the truth about Israel. You're still basing prophecy on the words of men, not God.

Prophecy is designed to be a metaphor for true events because the enemy won't know what he is doing; but God will know that the enemy is doing exactly as He predicted; and to God's children, those events are revealed in their true light as they are happening; not beforehand, unless God sends us a message directly concerning it.

Now some things are broken down into their truth in Revelations. God reveals what these mean, to an extent.

And then those must be applied only as they are given.

The seven heads that are seven hills? That is really easy. That's Rome. For example. We all know that.

There are other mysteries revealed that are easy; but most of these are still hard because if guessing and "maybe" is required, then you are wrong. For if there is no confidence in a statement, then how can it be of the Spirit?

God said, through Paul, if our heart condemns us, then God is greater, knowing much more than we do. But if it does not, then we have confidence toward God.

Now many of the interpretations of prophecies today are just flat wrong. In fact, all of them are, because not all mysteries have been revealed. But of the things which are sure, how is it possible people still are silly enough to create prophetic ideas and timelines that fly in the face of what God has already spoken and completed?

That is silly. There are enough mysteries without creating mysteries out of what has already been revealed.

I highly suggest, unless you are otherwise truly led by God, to not dabble in prophecy understanding if you haven't at least read the Bible thoroughly, and many times at that.

Look at how many are so ignorant to believe their pastors today. And their very own pastors will say, "Don't believe me; read the book!" Which is so funny, because if people had taken their advice, they would know not to believe them! What part of "don't believe me" do people not understand?

Click here for more information.

my take on the op;
1) the (western) elites hate religion and blame it for most of the worlds problems.
2) some sneaky elitist might one day simulate an alien invasion (false flag, blue beam, etc), or at least an alien presence, in order to 1) unite earth (under their elite leadership), and 2) discredit religion.
many Christians believe in an imminent rapture. it's possible the elites will sieze on that and say 'see, aliens, now listen to us, we has a plan'. (they will probably be celebrating our disappearance, btw).
Islamists will claim Allah is purifying the earth and all this will fit in with their own eschatolagy (al-Mahdi, here we come!)

I've been in different churches for almost forty years and I've never heard or experienced hatred in any of them (outside maybe the softball field) but I've sure seen hatred in the (secular) classroom.
you want contempt; get on an evolution board and see how they treat Intelligent Design advocates.

as for this commen of a-room-of-evangelicals-telling-us-we're-going-to-hell...I've never, ever experienced anything like that.