How much longer do you want to close your eyes ? WORLD, wake up !! (logical,Palestine-Israel story)

reply to post by hmdphantom


Hezbollah? really? i didnt even know it was a war...
It was a bunch of muslim cowards not fighting but sending rockets from villages and hiding under the Vail of civilians.

Jordan had 1400 civilians deaths and half of Jordan was destroyed but why would Hezbollah care since they are spreading the word of God or the will of Iran. You choose...

reply to post by The Old American

Whatever you think of Israel and what they've done before and since, the 6 Day War was clearly a defensive action and they were in the right to defend themselves.

Extremely debatable and many disagree, though it does seem odd that according to your theory, many forces that were ready for an imminent strike, were caught so unaware by Israel's ATTACK..

Doesn't really fit.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by The Old American

 

Whatever you think of Israel and what they've done before and since, the 6 Day War was clearly a defensive action and they were in the right to defend themselves.

Extremely debatable and many disagree, though it does seem odd that according to your theory, many forces that were ready for an imminent strike, were caught so unaware by Israel's ATTACK..

Doesn't really fit.

My answer was solely about the 6 Day War and why Israel struck first. It's not a theory; it's fact. Ask Zionists, and Israel was just sitting there minding their own business and the entire world jumped down their throat over nothing. Ask Egypt, or Jordan, or Syria and they were all just sitting there playing some dominoes when Israel was suddenly all up in their business. Ask a historian with no motives other than historical fact and Israel was about to be attacked by Syria, Egypt, and Jordan, and Israel performed a preemptive strike. If Israel had done nothing, those countries and their allies would've been inside Israel en masse.

History has greatness, and is has complete d-baggery. I can accept the bad things with the good as long as the bad stuff is historically accurate. Most people plug their fingers in their ears when they hear that Lincoln couldn't have cared less about freeing slaves, even though it's absolute fact. The facts of the 6 Day War I have already posted. Deny it if you want, but denying it don't make it so.

If you can't accept it, then you can't. If your bias against Israel is so blinding, well then there's no amount of factual data that will make you believe that their actions were justified. It doesn't even really matter to me as I have no stake in it.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


Y'know, an hour at a library would help you greatly. While I have no idea if you are lying intentionally or not, the plain fact of the matter is, what you're saying is untrue. I'm going to generously assume that this is due to your being miseducated. Don't worry, happens all the time, considering most Americans only hear a heavily propagandized version of the conflict from one side.

Now, what starts this situation off... the Soviets tip Egypt off that Israel was planning an invasion of Egypt. Now, it's generally accepted that the information was false, but the facts on the ground were that Israel had already sneak-attacked Egypt and invaded once before in 1956, and the USSR was Egypt's close and personal international ally.

Nasser took defensive measures; he sought defense pacts with other Arab states, and mobilized Egypt's military to the border. And they sat there for a few days.

Then Israel launched its attack. There's a wide variety of excuses why they did this, from the one you just conjured up ("They were totally going to attack! Because they're Arabs! it's what Arabs do!") to the fact israel had declared it would attack if Egypt shut down the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping; which Egypt did; after getting that intel from the Soviets. Of course, what Egypt does with Egypt's territorial waters really isn't Israel's business. Interestingly the Suez was not closed to Israel at this time. Go figure.

Now, I admit to not being any kind of military genius myself, but since you probably are, let me ask you. If you are planning to invade a nation that has shown itself in the past to be on par, if not more powerful than you militarily, do you park your forces at the border for a few days and wait? I wouldn't think that'd be very smart, honestly - and while there haven't exactly been any Arab Napoleons in the last 150 years or so, Nasser wasn't a dummy by any means. it strikes me that parking a substantial force on your side of a border is however, a fairly sound "no trespassing" sign. In this case it didn't work, but the theory is sound.

Personally I think the whole mess could have been easily solved if somebody had gone up to the other side, waved a white flag for a moment, and when collected, asked "hey, dude... what the hell is this about?"

Ultimately, it comes down to Egypt reasonably responding to (probably) false intel, followed by an Israeli attack on the Egyptians - which in all likelihood, just confirmed whatever that intel said in the first place.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Thank you for that revisionist history lesson. Where would public education be without Walking Fox's existence and profound knowledge of something resembling data?

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


At least walkingfox added some information which you could argue with facts, but it seems all you have is an opinion..

BTW, the fact is many Israeli politicians at the time also disagree with YOUR opinion..

reply to post by The Old American


You know, just because you dislike it, doesn't actually make it false. I know this can be a hard lesson to learn. But again, go to the library. Read a book. They actually do have books on the subject. Many, in fact. Enough to be daunting to an amature such as yourself; feel free to ask the librarian for help, it's what htey're there for. Collect numerous volumes and tomes on hte subject.

You will find that all of them - spare a few raving hyperbolic works from either side - lay it out pretty much just like that.

1) Nasser gets (probably false) tip from USSR.
2) Nasser alerts his allies in the region and puts them on the defensive.
3) Egypt's forces move to the border... and stop there.
4) Israel attacks.

Now, you can hem and haw over whether or not Israel "felt threatened." Sure, maybe they did. But the fact of the matter is, Egypt was not acting aggressively. Unless Nasser's definition of "aggressive" utterly defies the definition that nation-states have used for the last 300 years. At the end of the day, Israel launched an avoidable attack on a defensive force, then proceded to conquer and colonize a portion of that nation.

It's that latter part that causes me to put "probably" in front of "false intelligence." In my opinion, Israel's choice to use war and invasion as a first and only response, paired with the very sudden influx of colonists to the Sinai, makes me think that maybe the intel wasn't so false, after all. But that's my opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by The Old American

 

You know, just because you dislike it, doesn't actually make it false. I know this can be a hard lesson to learn.

I have no stake in this. I'm going on facts and data.

But again, go to the library. Read a book. They actually do have books on the subject. Many, in fact. Enough to be daunting to an amature such as yourself; feel free to ask the librarian for help, it's what htey're there for. Collect numerous volumes and tomes on hte subject.

Insulting me doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look like you have only that as a defense. Wait..you only have that as a defense. Insult away!

Yes, the Soviets had a hand in this. And the belligerents were willing to believe anything that they were told since they'd been trounced twice before by Israel and had their pride hurt. So Egypt, Jordan, and Syria gathered their forces for an attack. Israel performed a preemptive strike.

You anti-Israel people say "Israel attacked them without provocation!!11oneone" The pro-Israel people say "See? SEE?!!? Israel was minding their own business and they were attacked for NO REASON!!" The people like me, that actually have read books on the subject, and have gone to great pains to only collect the least-biased information, says "All evidence points to an imminent attack on Israel by Syria, Jordan and, in particular, Egypt, especially since Egypt started off the hoedown by blockading Israel's southern port. Hmm, I wonder if blockading a nation's port could be a sign of aggression? Surely not. Just a misunderstanding, I guess.

But you keep on keepin' on brother. Israel is completely to blame, Arabs should own every square mile of that part of the Middle East, and unicorn farts smell like cinnamon.

/TOA

reply to post by Trublbrwing


thank you for reply.

Nazis helped the world to close her eye on what is happening in Palestine. Moving to Israel was the continuation of that movement.

Read about Deir Yassin massacre and you will know it.

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

Hezbollah? really? i didnt even know it was a war...
It was a bunch of Muslim cowards not fighting but sending rockets from villages and hiding under the Vail of civilians.

And it was such preventing act because Israel refused to use it's phosphorus bombs.

White phosphorus bombs on Gaza

Open your bag of labels and label yourself as a racist. My English is so bad and I have already admitted that.
but I know the meaning of Muslim cowards in this respect.

Notice that when I was using the adjective "bully" for that guy , I was considering such acts of Israel like Deir Yassin massacre and other massacres that I see when I turn on my TV.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

thank you for reply.

Nazis helped the world to close her eye on what is happening in Palestine. Moving to Israel was the continuation of that movement.

Read about Deir Yassin massacre and you will know it.

Hitler was a supporter of zionism and they helped him with the "Jewish problem". This would explain where they learned the tactics they are using in Gaza.
Nazi Support of Zionism

i will admit, i hated the Jewish people that used to come to my school (private English) during the holidays (the school used to rent out the dorms to them). this was when i was about 16,17. everytime we came back to school, the dorms were completely trashed. My family were the houseparents for the boarding pupils, during the term time,and we had to (as in, my parents, myself and my sister ,plus 2 cleaners) spend a week cleaning the whole boarding house back up after them (once the Jewish group had left). These little jewish kids had no concept of respect.
I can say this because i was there, i hated those little buggers,dirty crap all over the place..-as a parting shot, they would do dirty sanchezing all down the stair corridors..(#ting and then using your hand as a paintbrush).s.
That enabled me to be very anti Semitic .That was my only contact with Jewish people, and i hated them. But then i went to Belsen with the CCF and realized the real history, ( we weren't just told the atrocities, we were told the reasons why, what they as a race believed in...) I realized that the Jewish race were'nt just promoted by these rude children, i understood, that this is a race that had its own country, and now has it back, but bloody hell they don't half have to work to keep it. I still don't really understand how people can believe in religion...it is something that i will never be able to understand. I always thought that a real man, believes in himself, and blames no-one else apart from himself for when things go wrong. I digress,,

reply to post by CountDrac

Moral of the Story! Karma is a Biatch….

karma will come back for Israel soon.