How The Bush Tax Cuts Blew Up The Deficit And Debt

Originally posted by the owlbear
Right now, I have two kids under 4, and my wife and I Both have strep throat. But hey, I'm in the bathroom, so here it goes: gwb=tax cuts for all. Why? To create jobs. I dont have the time to pour through YouTube for vids, but you have to know where I'm going with this by now. Exactly how many jobs did those bush tax cuts create? Thought so.

There you go, no one (or very few) would be against these tax cuts to the wealthy if they actually did what it claimed they would, but the data shows, time and again, that they do not work... or create work for that matter.

If the tax cuts were exclusively targeted toward companies and individuals that actually create employment in the country, I doubt anybody would have a problem with them. However, this has not proven to be the case since the inception of the (in)famous "trickle-down" theory.

the Billmeister

What is even more pathetic is that when republicans have been on complete control of the fed gov, they cut taxes and increased spending at the same time.

Free market economic policies have destroyed the U.S. economy, and those who claim otherwise are living in a fantasy world, which is why they keep getting more and more hysterical all the time in what they say and do.

Originally posted by daddyroo45
My entire working life,I was never hired to work for a poor man !!....But I have seen some fairly wealthy people hire poor folk...This mindset that is portrayed here is akin to killing the goose that laid the golden egg to me.

the gold plated egg you mean...i have been fortunate to have been in the start up phase of several companies, none of which where started by wealthy folks. every single one of the owners where sub 6 figures and had saved for years to start their respective businesses. the wealthy have one job it seems, holding on to their wealth. The real entrepreneurs are often taxed out of business.

Originally posted by fredgbear
As you stated, there will be a left/right division. However, the evidence of how Bush ran up the deficit is irrefutable. They all want to blame the current administration for the poor economy. The facts show that it wouldn't matter who was elected....the economy was already in the toilet waiting to get flushed. I'm am neither a republican, or a democrat, so please, don't call me one. It is hard to disprove the state in which Bush left the economy.

I agree, some people get sick of hearing it but it's true - Bush left a mess of an economy when Obama took over office. To put it into perspective, the month that Obama took over, 700,000 Americans lost their jobs. I believe the previous month was pretty close to the same number.

And I agree with the OP's sentiment. It's not a left/right debate, it's class warfare, which has been in effect for some time. I think left/right politics in America today are simply meant to divide and distract, and it's working.

Originally posted by Billmeister
If the tax cuts were exclusively targeted toward companies and individuals that actually create employment in the country, I doubt anybody would have a problem with them. However, this has not proven to be the case since the inception of the (in)famous "trickle-down" theory.
the Billmeister

What amazes me is how politicians to this very day still swear by trickle down economics.

"We cannot raise taxes on the job creators."

Just curious, when are these "job creators" going to start creating jobs? It's been 10 years.

OK. First off let me tell you everyone I know makes over $250k so they would be hit by the Bush taxes cuts.

But again this is not real people. Add all the taxes from the higher level people it is just going to do the following. Make me fire you so I keep the same amount of money end of story. Before you think your smart and say that's not going to happen it is. Next. The Government every year don't add to the GDP for next year.

Let me explain. If the GDP goings up 3% or more you get more taxes because rich or poor we have more money in the system. But the Taxes model that the government use only goes on last years data. So right now they are saying your are only going to make the same money as last year. Now if that's true the Government would be right on something for the first time in 50 years.

So the idea the Government have is the only way to get more money is tax more. When in the real world they will get more if the GDP goes up. But they don't play with them rules!!

So. Yes keep the taxes cuts. Add the fair tax in and cut taxes for everyone. Add taxes to the rich is only going to take money away from the system because they will just move it because they are smarter then the government.

I don't know who said it first but the line goes something like, "there's a reason they call it TRICKLE down, and not GUSH down...."

My whole tax policy is based on aversion to the following well documented comment by then Firstlady Hillary Clinton while "they" were king and queen :"
"We can't give you a "taxcut"! You wouldn't spend it right..."

Well "what business is it of yours" how I spend My money? I've been a "conservative" ( not necessarily "republican") firebrand ever since.


Also aplies to all the" trickle down" comments above:I.E. "The rich are hoarding their money ergo we must forcibly separate them from it.for the chil'run...

dont let the rich fool you search top 20 zip codes pay 20% taxes or less, sorry idk how to link yet.

they have alot of loopholes that while available to everyone they seem a little biased to people with the most money. eg making your money on didvidend paying bluechip stocks, once you own them longer than a year you only pay a 15% tax. while the cost of the stock and the dividend payout fluctuate with the market but if you owned a million stocks that paid 1$ per share thats 850k for you and 150k to the fed. a pretty nice deal!

im no tax lawyer/expert but ive heard of such loopholes as being able to gift up to 600k to your immediate family members we all have/hadthe right.lol now if thats true your rich parents or maybe grand parents could give you 600k worth of blue chip stocks at your birth and let all the checks buy even more stocks(wealth) untill your say 18. a massive amount of wealth that pays you dividends(income) that you pay only 15% tax.we have a system that unfairly biases the wealthy. again im not a tax lawyer/expert just stating my belief that the system makes the higher income brackets pay higher tax% ie say the diferrance between making 30k and 300k is false and just makes it harder for poor people to become richer while the truly rich are wallowing in money and not paying anywhere near as stiff of a % as lower income earners are.

further if we really check/compare tax% between anyone we must include all taxes eg gas tax ,sales tax ,excise tax, meal tax, booze tax ,estate tax(when you die, luv that 1), and im sure alot more.lets not forget state, fica, ss,medi, and then compare to their income. lets see even one of the super wealthy that pays even half as much of a % as the average american pays. i doubt there is even one. atleast not one that isnt skipping legal tax rightoffs or taking advantage of legal tax prevention stratagies. plus lets consider lifetime tax % averages.

dont beileve the rich pay a higher tax% its a lie. they will hide behind statistical manipulation like saying i paid 4 million in federal income tax!!! and forget to mention they made 40 milion in income(before loop holes).

if im wrong how come the super wealthy havent bribed/lobbied hard for a flat tax??? make a dollar pay x% every one every time no exceptions, including corparations and politicians!

reply to post by micmerci


you forgot something in your analogy
the tenth man (the richest) is also the produce supplier for the restaurant and he raises his produce prices slightly offsetting the cost of the dinner and netting a gain overall of 30 dollars.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed

 

If we reduce spending, NO-ONE would have to pay more.

A lot of our spending on black-ops, Military etc our congress hands down signs it right off.

Spending is an issue on both sides.

And yes, perhaps you are right about that, but I don't see that happening.

Bull-dooky.
Most of our spending is on etitlement programs.

Aside from the really poor people who get food stamps and welfare checks, and state funded healthcare or medicaid, most of the big money entitlement programs are open to the vast majority of Americans. Who here, when they are "of age" will not qualify for Medicare or Social Security? I mean aren't those the big evil entitlement programs you despise? Aren't they there for most Americans? Don't even rich people get social security and medicare if they choose?
Don't simply think "poor people getting handouts" when you think entitlement programs. Think Medicare and Social Security too. And if there is money left in those, most of us would be 'entitled' to a share.

p.s. i think military is too expensive these days. Also, the tax code is written by congress/lawmakers. The IRS does not write the tax laws. Congress and politicians are often supported by big corporations/special interest groups/other deep pockets via the contributions to their campaigns. Don't you think some sweet tax law will get written to benefit your interests if you put up all that "support" for the ones writing the law?

reply to post by Billmeister


Governments rule.
Take taxpayers money.
Instill order with money.
Keep corporations going with money,
Keeping people working.
Tax people.
Use their money for the countries good, rinse and repeat.

It is sad, but true.

reply to post by 46ACE


The rich are the biggest recipients of feed welfare.

Are you really happy about sending your hard earned money to the super rich? Tat is where most of your tax dollars go, and where most of the money borrowed in the name of the people of the U.S. went.

The conservatives are so busy concentrating on defending the overseas assets of giant corporations, they can't even defend our own borders. That is pathetic. Oh, you heard something that Hillary supposedly said, when she probably never said anything like that, and that is your reasoning for ignoring everything else the conservatives have done to bankrupt our nation, strip us of our rights, and even undermine our nations sovereignty.

After GW and company screwed this country up as bad as they did, wide spread corruption run amuck at the top levels of business, exportation of our economy to China, and allowing out country to be over ran by illegals, for conservatives to continue to spew their ignorance is down right sickening.

Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
Ever been on food stamps?

Yup, my family used Wic and food stamps after going bankrupt in the job and housing crisis in the mid 80s.

My Mom went to school using gov programs and they were able to clean their debt and get on their feet after about 4-5 of hard work.

Infact most people on these programs do not abuse the system and anything that says otherwise is just another talking point BS myth.

Holy crap! You really are "miss the point" guy. The point is that we're ALL going to be on these programs because the dollar is going to become worthless.

Of course, if you want to talk about "abuse of the system" then that's a whole other thread. The abuse is TERRIBLE, but you cannot cut the programs because those in need will die. I think that there should be a small arm of law enforcement dedicated to stamping out abuse. It isn't a myth. I have family that works in the system and I hear stories of abuse non-stop.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Sunsetspawn

 

Er. . . so. . . um. . give them YOUR money.
I'm cool with that.

I'm smarter thn the government, though. I can spend my money better than they can spend theirs.

(I don't have a deficit, I have a surplus)

THIS...

is the brainwashed mantra that is toxic to the United States. In fact, I'm entirely convinced you're playing a Colbert-esque game on here, exaggerating to the point of making rightists look silly.

But let's say, for a moment, that you're legit. Do you understand economics? Do you understand that our credit rating dropped? Do you understand what happens to currency in this situation?

Your "message board opinion," whether you actually believe it or not, is the ACTUAL opinion of the idiots with Rs in front of their names in congess. People like you, whom are very stubborn about NOT reducing the deficit, are the same people that aren't going to apologize when the economy "explosive diarrhea's" the bed.

Instead, you'll be living in your house, with no power or running water, wiping your ass with your money, yellin bout how "them democrats broke the economy." After all, your "surplus" isn't going to be worth a bag of dildos if this isn't fixed.