When the Progressive Income Tax Rates were high were the Rich or the Wealthy people still Rich did t

Originally posted by gentledissident
BTW, what's so great about work? We should be as efficient as possible to maximize our free time. Work is no way to spend our relatively brief period of consciousness before the brain stops working and memory of existence is gone forever.

That right there, that quote, is perfect. It captures the progressive mind-set perfectly. Thank you for your honesty. Really.

Well what's wrong with everybody paying 15% tax on earnings? And including stock holding earnings as part of those earnings, which are not taxed as of the present. Isn't that fair?
$15,000 income pays = $2,500 income tax
$150,00= $22,500 income tax
$3 million (stock earnings) = $450,000
Seems fair to me?
That would mean my tax would be $9,360
Still seems fair.
ETA: sales tax should be eliminated... But taxes on land and boats, cars, etc, would still be utilized.

Originally posted by beezzer Who determines necessity?

What can you not LIVE without? I think it's obvious.

Originally posted by beezzer Trading work for goods? Already exists. It's called money.

My government will accept cash if you want what we have but don't want to build what we have.

Originally posted by beezzer Shorter work week? Less money or trading power.

Atomation will take care of a lot of work. Systems like vertical rotating hydroponic solar powered green houses will require less people and time. Central resource management will be a boon along side the resource options.

Originally posted by beezzer Huge organizations and efficiency don't go together. Take it from someone who has worked for the government for decades.

Walmart is REALLY big. I don't see Walmart on the list of companies that will fail this year. Yes, our government cannot handle what I am proposing. It is a den of thieves.

reply to post by gentledissident


Who determines what I can live "without"?
The government?

My friend, we are obviously on separate sides of the spectrum. The way the U.S. government is going, you may get your wish. But I will fight it tooth and nail. Individual freedoms, personal responsibility, and the oppourtunity to work for as much as you want, is what I'll be fighting for.

See you on the front lines.

reply to post by neo96


There are no Americans who pay no taxes whatsoever. Any time you buy something you pay taxes. Any time you fill up your tank you pay taxes. Any time you get a paycheck there are social security taxes taken out. If you want to say they pay no income taxes I'll buy that ...maybe question your numbers.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Well what's wrong with everybody paying 15% tax on earnings? And including stock holding earnings as part of those earnings, which are not taxed as of the present. Isn't that fair?
$15,000 income pays = $2,500 income tax
$150,00= $22,500 income tax
$3 million (stock earnings) = $450,000
Seems fair to me?
That would mean my tax would be $9,360
Still seems fair.
ETA: sales tax should be eliminated... But taxes on land and boats, cars, etc, would still be utilized.

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: punctuation

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: add

I like the idea of taxing stock holdings earnings, I actually wonder why that isn't being taxed, especially with the financial problems we have right now.

But I disagree in a flat tax and I really don't think it's fair at all to tax someone's income on only 15K a year. Hell, I think it's pretty unfair that someone that works full-time makes can make that ridiculously low amount of money in a year. Look at 15,000 and then 2,500 just on income (which doesn't count SS or other potential taxes), how would that person even survive on the amount of money left over?

Not sure about eliminating the sales tax, but it should be fairly low at the very least.

reply to post by neo96


You keep harping on this belief that 71 million people don't pay any taxes...it makes me wonder if you've ever worked an honest job for a full year to actually see how you're taxed. To experience the taxation before making absurd claims that millions of people 'pay no tax' and not understand the intracacies of rebates and effective tax and so on. If you have, then you've never been 'poor' or made less than $60,000/year. Which explains a lot towards your political leanings.

To everyone else:

You have to understand effective tax vs tax rate. If you're single, making $100,000 your top marginal tax rate is 28%. Does this mean your paying $28,000 in taxes? No. With our progressive tax system you end up paying $21,708.57 or 21.7% of your total income.

We could step it up and say $1 million is your annual income. Your effective tax would be close to 25%. Mind you, the top tax rate is 35%. That would leave you, our millionaire example, with $750,000 after taxes. If you want to include SS you have to remember that you stop paying SS for the year after you've made $106,000. Roughly your second paycheck in this example.

So would a return to, say, 90% taxation on anything above a million per year really hurt the country? Probably not. We could pay off a huge portion of the national debt and end with significant budget surplus, enough to a return to a 35% top tax rate after a few years. If the wealthy were ever going to 'go Galt' they would've done so during the 50's. They didn't. They won't.

reply to post by origamiandurbanism


Minimum wage is just under $14,000/year. The federal poverty level is just over $10,000/year. Three and a half million people make minimum wage or less in this country. Three and a half million people experience homelessness each year.

These people are considered leaches by some, that they're simply too lazy to stop being poor. That's unacceptable to me, I have personal responsibility but I also have a sense of social responsibility.

reply to post by links234


So the solution is to make everyone poor?

The parasites will get what's coming to them when the productive members of society stop producing.

reply to post by origamiandurbanism


If I was single and had no children I could live off of $15.000 - $2,500 which is $12,500 a year, just takes budgeting, if you're married without children one will probably put enough in to make up for the difference of 2 people living together...if you're married with children then you should not be making $15,000 you need more money so find a better job, simple as that. With 5 people in the household three under 18 I made it on roughly $22,000 for several years while the other adult was laid off. I even had a new vehicle for that time that was on a car loan. It can be done.
Also There are a lot of immigrants here illegally not paying income taxes, but getting handouts, we should not be allowing this.

Originally posted by neo96

i dont care no matter the income you get taxed you dont tax one group and give a free pass to others.

74 million arent paying taxes and if those 74 paid at least 500 bucks that equals 37 billion dollars.

Ok:
They don't pay federal income tax
They pay payroll taxes and state taxes.

Other than that you realize how this works?
You make up to x dollars you pay no tax
You make x to y dollars you pay a % for those y-x

So if you want to tax people who make up to x dollars, you would increase everybody elses taxes too.
Because now if you make x-y dollars you wouldn't pay a% for y-x, but a% for y. and y>y-x

reply to post by Misoir

It is mob rule. Because the majority of the people are not rich they feel that they are entitled to take from the minority of the people, why? Because they do not have the number of people to actually fight back in a way that we can see, however they do control the employment and investment in an economy. This all sounds like 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. It’s purely mob rule, i.e. democracy, and a complete abandonment of our Republican values.

Thanks you envious bastards for turning America away from republican virtues.

Republicans are Fascist pricks, so quite frankly I couldn't give a damn about Republican virtues.

Corporations today are not American .. they are not the representation of the American Dream, they do not represent the hard work of Americans, for Americans, by Americans. They are internationally owned and traded corporations without an ounce of patriotic pride or bias to the USA or to our people .. they are entities that stand apart, owned by internationalist that would see it's profits rise at the purposeful detriment to our people. WE .. the people .. should be waging war with our Globalist government and the international corporations .. I have no patriotic allegiance to an entity that seeks to use and abuse our people for the sake of increased quarterly profits. And if that's what it means to be a Republican, to see people treated like @#%@ because they "didn't work hard enough and are jealous" by international corporations and their Globalist Elitist executives then I hold republicans in the same contempt that I hold these globalist bastards. The attitude Republicans hold in favor of corporations and their elitist masters is absolutely disgusting, doubly so because the corporations and their handlers are no longer images of America's power and innovation, but of the looting and international fleecing of our great people.

Just look at history every time taxes go up the economy goes up. Even Reagan understood this. So keep giving the elite more tax breaks that way we can kill our economy the rest the way off. And I would be willing to bet the people crying about taxes aren't even old enough to remember what it was like to really pay taxes.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Well what's wrong with everybody paying 15% tax on earnings? And including stock holding earnings as part of those earnings, which are not taxed as of the present. Isn't that fair?
$15,000 income pays = $2,500 income tax
$150,00= $22,500 income tax
$3 million (stock earnings) = $450,000
Seems fair to me?
That would mean my tax would be $9,360
Still seems fair.
ETA: sales tax should be eliminated... But taxes on land and boats, cars, etc, would still be utilized.

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: punctuation

edit on 29-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: add

This has been suggested by many people, however it is regressive, and affects lower income people more drastically than higher income people. Taking $2500 from someone making 15000 is going to much more drastically alter their life, than taking 22500 from someone making 150K, look at the difference in what is left to live off of. I am not sure you would find many economists or accountants that would back this type of system.

I am not sure where you believe that stocks are not taxed, if dividends are paid, you pay tax on them, if stocks are bought and sold, you pay taxes on capital gains. The only way taxes are not paid on them is if they are held within an IRA or 401K plan, and taxes are still paid, however they are deferred until you withdraw the funds, depending on your income level at the time.

Originally posted by neo96
why dont you people starting thinking about the 74 million americans who pay no tax whatsoever before you start trying to make others pay more.

sigh, this again? You always fail to say "federal tax" when you trot this little half truth out.

*everyone* pays taxes. Sales tax, Meals tax, Tax on gas. The only way to NOT pay any taxes is to either be dead, or not consuming anything.

Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by neo96
why dont you people starting thinking about the 74 million americans who pay no tax whatsoever before you start trying to make others pay more.

sigh, this again? You always fail to say "federal tax" when you trot this little half truth out.

*everyone* pays taxes. Sales tax, Meals tax, Tax on gas. The only way to NOT pay any taxes is to either be dead, or not consuming anything.

So, that makes it okay? Why should some people not have to pay federal tax when everyone else does?

Originally posted by neo96
you owe you pay is the way its suppose to work isnt it?

yes but, when it is reported that forty something percent of tax filers didn't owe any tax, this is nothing more than a governmental spin trying to make it look like the masses are not paying more in tax than they were during the prior administration.

plain and simple, if they didn't owe taxes on April 15th, it just means that the taxes they paid during the year, either via withholding or estimated payments, was sufficient to cover the annual amount of tax on their overall income.

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by neo96

 

No
That's another issue. This topic is about progressive tax, and how wealthy people don't want to pay their share.

I'm all ready to pay my share, I'm just waiting for my bail out money to come first before I pay up. Isn't that what the big banks do?

reply to post by Crakeur


Not to mention there are more ways to pay taxes besides the Federal Income Tax. SS you don't get back. Medicare/Medicaid you don't get back. Few get all their state back. Almost no body gets their sales tax back.

Inflation?

Who's effected more by the policies of the rich? We see drastic inflation with foods and oil, the basic necessities of life. Someone making 500k a year isn't going to notice he has to pay an extra $20 to fill his car .. someone making $20k a year it may mean whether he can eat that day. Inflation in the past 10 years has been the governments top source of revenue .. from inflation alone the lower and middle classes have easily seen 20-30% indirect tax increases through cost of living.

Originally posted by Nosred

So, that makes it okay? Why should some people not have to pay federal tax when everyone else does?

The statement "X million people pay no taxes" is disingenuous, and flies in the face of the ATS motto "Deny Ignorance". That is the point of my reply.