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Originally posted by lostinspace
I wonder if the flood stories are actually different events or some of them are one in the same. I feel that both are true.
www.talkorigins.org...
Originally posted by Howard the Dolphin
Why don't you believe that a global flood, if not at least massive regional floods occured?
defcon5
Excellent book on the subject
Originally posted by Nygdan
defcon5
Excellent book on the subject
What is the most convincing piece of evidence from that book wrt a global flood? I've heard people mention, but never any evidence that it has.
Originally posted by Nygdan
As far as considering multiple flood myths, it would be expected that since flooding occurs normally, without the influence of asteroids, that different cultures would have these myths.
Originally posted by Nygdan
I have never heard of any meteor impact in the med. that caused flooding like that described. In addition, the flood myths do not mention tidal waves but profuse rain.
Originally posted by Nygdan
And as far as 'Masonic' legends, how did they get access to them? And why would the freemasons have any legends that are particularly trustworthy, since they've only been around since relatively recent times?
Enoch and Freemasonry
Both York Rite masonry and Scottish Rite masonry have degrees based on what is referred to as the great Masonic Legend of Enoch. These degrees were no doubt fabricated by Andrew Michael Ramsay (the Chevalier Ramsay) sometime in the early eighteenth century. Chevalier Ramsay was a Jacobite supporter having come to their cause while a tutor of James III's two sons. He had also traveled extensively on the continent and lived for some time in France where he became a Freemason and was Grand Chancellor of the Grand Lodge of Paris. Based on his literary reputation the University of Oxford conferred on him the degree of Doctor of Civil Law. Ramsay's idea of Freemasonry excluded any operative connection. He saw its roots in the noble and chivalric orders and based on the military prowess and religious enthusiasm of knighthood. He no doubt encountered the Enoch legend in his continental travels.4 While he may have fabricated the degrees he did not fabricate the Enoch Legend as the following discussion will illustrate.
What has been called the great Masonic Legend of Enoch runs to this effect:
Enoch being inspired by the Most High, and in commemoration of a wonderful vision, build a temple underground, and dedicated it to God His son, Methuselah, constructed the building; although he was not acquainted with his father's motives for the erection. This temple consisted of nine brick vaults, situated perpendicularly beneath each other and communicating by apertures left in the arch of each vault.
Enoch then caused a triangular plate of gold to be made, each side of which was a cubit long; he enriched it with the most precious stones, and encrusted the plate upon a stone of agate of the same form. On the grave he engraved, in effable characters, the true name of Deity, and, placing it on a cubical pedestal of white marble, he deposited the whole within the deepest arch.
When this subterranean building was completed, he made a door of stone, and attaching it to a ring of iron, by which it might occasionally be raised, he placed it over the opening of the uppermost arch, and so covered it over that the aperture could not be discovered, Enoch himself was permitted to enter it but once a year; and on the death of Enoch, Methuselah, and Lamech, and the destruction of the world by the deluge, all knowledge of his temple, and of the sacred treasure which it contained, was lost until, in after times, it was accidentally discovered by another worthy of Freemasonry, who, like Enoch, was engaged in the erection of a temple on the same spot.5
The origin of this legend remains obscure with no known reliable reference alluding to its source. Within Freemasonry it is regarded as traditional and is accepted for what it is a legend. There is however a widely quoted fourteenth century article by Nicephori Callisti6 that would appear to lend support to the veracity of the legend. This article is preceded by an even earlier, essentially identical, ninth century article in the "Epitome of the Ecclesiastical History compiled by Photius. Both of these articles are based on the writings of Julius the Apostate (C.E. 332 363) who apparently attempted to rebuild the temple of Jerusalem. Julius restored paganism and declared a form of religious freedom. As a result of this heresy some Christian authors promoted the writings of Julius as fabrications and totally fantastic. Such a position would make both accounts suspect and of little use as corroborative evidence. In all likelihood, the authors were aware of Julius' apostasy and nevertheless accepted the story. Further study is required.
Originally posted by defcon5
your really have to read the various flood myths for your self,
Originally posted by Nygdan
I have never heard of any meteor impact in the med. that caused flooding like that described. In addition, the flood myths do not mention tidal waves but profuse rain.
There is no other scientific way to cover the Earth entirely with water, there is not enough even with the poles fully melted.
Originally posted by Nygdan
And as far as 'Masonic' legends, how did they get access to them? And why would the freemasons have any legends that are particularly trustworthy, since they've only been around since relatively recent times?
Originally posted by Nygdan
Even that isn't going to cover the entire planet with water though, but it would certainly bring flood like conditions to people inland definitely yes�..
I do have to wonder, however, at why it would take so long to recover from some of these disasters. Some civs I can understand are wiped out completely, but the events couldn't have been too destructive, certainly not on a global scale, I would expect there to be evidence of genetic bottlenecking in modern populations to indicate a drastic dying off.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Interesting, the usual story I have seen has them starting with Hiram Abif being hired to start the great jewish temple.
Originally posted by defcon5
There is evidence of bottlenecking that has been discovered using mitochondrial DNA
Maybe they induct members posthumously�