China, Russia Could Make U.S. Stealth Tech Obsolete

Well, this could be a game changer. It was good while it lasted, but maybe now we can stop spending on expensive and limited weapons systems and concentrate on ones that work.

I like the idea of tracking aircraft through Cell, Radio and TV signals. Whodathunk? And why didn't the US think of it first. Too low tech maybe?

www.wired.com... nger+Room%29

This is a joke. America is #1!!!!!

reply to post by DOUGH3914


As a American, I agree, but there is competition out there and we ignore them at our own peril. If we want to stay in the lead, we've got to keep running.

these are all...yet again...if's and maybe's...there still is no certainty that this could be true...and who's to say that stealth tech doesn't advance more to further evade these newer systems? obviously we have some unveiled tech that we don't know about (i.e. the stealth helo from the OBL raid)

this is the normal cycle. as long as they are trying to catch up to us, and not the other way around, I'm cool with it.

besides, the first stealth vehicle flew in the 60's (A-12 )

They seriously need to start hacking away at the defense budget and getting rid of these stealth programs that cost so much would be a good start.

They could still keep and develop the tech but the expensive orders should deleted. It would be great to have hundreds of state of the art jets and what not but we simply can't afford it anymore. The need does not outweigh the cost.

Especially if they have the computer codes for the windows software,,, lol its ok,, cause it has norton 360 protection right? lol sorry script guys,, everyone knows its written in,,,,,,,,,,

Our economies are crashing, environment's failing apart, water shortening and all of the worlds super powers are seeing who can hide the best -_-

reply to post by kro32


quote
"They seriously need to start hacking"
unquote
Under Section 101-b of the new Cyber-Crime Division ,, the c.c.d,,we are now at War with u for using the "restricted, word HACKING"

This is now considered a crime of the office of the c.c.d (see above )

* Restricted words,,,may include but not be limited too, under the Geneva Convention of ,,,,,,,,, lol

joke.

well the US saw that coming, theres no need to use the superstealth cloaking they must have been working on in the 20 years since the currently acknowlaged sealth tech's development and use.

Once better different FQ radars get devoloped enough to be manufactoured and used then we will see a huge jump in UFO reports as the USA militry 'next generation' of keeping one step ahead (stealth) is put into action.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
Well, this could be a game changer. It was good while it lasted, but maybe now we can stop spending on expensive and limited weapons systems and concentrate on ones that work.

I like the idea of tracking aircraft through Cell, Radio and TV signals. Whodathunk? And why didn't the US think of it first. Too low tech maybe?

www.wired.com... nger+Room%29

edit on 7-6-2011 by TDawgRex because: all thumbs

The idea of tracking aircraft though cell, radio ,TV signals satellite and even space noise was call Project Shadowchaser ( not to be confused with the movie by the same name) in effect makes all stealth aircraft obsolete. When the project first started the computer power to run the system just was there not but now days it is little more than off the shelve tech. The idea is simple as it can be. You do not look for the stealth aircraft. You look at all the other radio noise and when something passes though this sea of noise it leaves a 'shadow' and you look for that shadow. An aircraft has a wake behind it in the sea of noise like a boat on the lake. And as you are not putting out a signal your location can not be tracked and any signal transmitted to jam it just helps you be seen that much better.

i am not so sure about stealths demise.

overconfidence in your system can and has meant to losing the war.

foreign tech is not this nations greatest enemy is its a certain poltical party in this country that seeks to cut defense at every turn.

you can either lead follow or become the victim on the world stage it doesnt matter what we do what matters is stopping and sitting on current tech.

defense tech is just like the pc revolution like the processing power of a computer chip doubles every 2 years.

we can not sit on old tech forever we have to innovate and develop constantly to maintain an advantage

thats the nature of the game.

sure we stop we are as good as dead at the mercy of others who dont stop.

the fact of the matter is there ae proven ways around radio waves manned or unmanned and materials and designs that we do not yet know anything about yet.


if you know whats out there you can mititage the risks just by simply being aware of what other countries are doing.

reply to post by fixer1967


Thanks for the info. As a lowly grunt, I had thought of something along those lines earlier in life, but as many of us can attest to, I didn't have the experiance, money and contacts to see if it was workable. I guess it is. Makes sense to me.

by the time the current crop of american stealth platforms lose their edge by becoming visible to enemy radars, they'll still be useful as decoys for target acquisition purposes. as soon as a hostile radar detects a future f-22, it can relay the position of the radar to a loitering NGB (next-gen bomber) and order a mach 6+ airstrike courtesy of the scramjet missile. or maybe the navy could send a railgun barrage downrange, whichever seems convenient at the moment.

Originally posted by toreishi
by the time the current crop of american stealth platforms lose their edge by becoming visible to enemy radars, they'll still be useful as decoys for target acquisition purposes. as soon as a hostile radar detects a future f-22, it can relay the position of the radar to a loitering NGB (next-gen bomber) and order a mach 6+ airstrike courtesy of the scramjet missile. or maybe the navy could send a railgun barrage downrange, whichever seems convenient at the moment.

edit on 6.7.11 by toreishi because: (no reason given)

If they are using something like the Shadowchaser system which is PASSIVE only and does not put out a singal to be detected so there is no way of knowing where the site is for it to be bomb. The Shadowchaser system or any system working on the same bases can not be tracked or jammed. There is nothing to track and there is no signal to jam. It not only makes stealth obsolete but it also makes radar obsolete as well.
The idea is simple and an old one at that. Remember back in the old days of TV when a plane flew high over head as it past over your TV would get messed up for a second. The is the base idea behind this tech. You do not put out any thing you just listen to everything out there. When an object comes between you and what you are listening for you lose the singal and the target gives it self away. And since stealth absorb and scatter radio singals a stealth aircraft would show up better than a non-stealth aircraft. When this tech get into wide spread use the whole game is going to change forever.

reply to post by fixer1967


yet, you're still listening to something that's being put out. and listening for something that's interfering with that something that you're listening to. and any attempt to analyze the signals that you're listening to will require lots of computers and computers require generators and generators will be so much visible on IR if you're in the field and that will make you all the more vulnerable.

The biggest defense budget in history has flaws?
Who'd have thought that? All those wasted funds used to make me feel safe.

Better throw a few hundred billion toward Lockheed Martin's Skunkworks division immediately! The B2 and F117 need 4G!

Let's keep it in perspective.

“The advantages of stealth … may be eroded by advances in sensors and surface-to-air missile systems, especially for manned strike platforms operating inside defended airspace,” Watts cautions in his 43-page report The Maturing Revolution in Military Affairs (.pdf), published last week.

That is, if Watts’ prediction comes true — and that’s a big “if,” the analyst admits.

There’s still a chance the Air Force’s bet on stealth could pay off, Watts writes. That largely depends on two capabilities planned for the F-35.

First, there’s “the JSF’s sensor suite and computational power,” which Watts explains “can be easily upgraded over time due to the plane’s open avionics architecture, giv[ing] the F-35 an ability to adjust its flight path in real time in response to pop-up threats, something neither the F-117 nor the B-2 have been able to do.”

Second, the F-35’s radar, a so-called “electronically scanned array,” could in theory be used to jam an enemy radar or even slip malicious software code into its control system.

And to wrap it all up

It’s also worth noting that America’s biggest rivals don’t doubt the continuing relevance of stealthy planes. Russia and China have both unveiled new stealth-fighter prototypes in the last two years.

Source

So everything is hypothetical and the rivals that would hypothetically use the method don't doubt the relevance of stealth.

There have been similar speculations for decades, ever since Stealth was unveiled publically there has been someone or some country trying to figure out how to defeat the technology.

Airforce using Stealth in conjunction with the Navy's focus on jamming and countermeasures still make it a viable technology.

As mentioned above by Biigs, you don't think the boys in the desert have just been resting on their laurels for the last 30 years do you?

No, as soon as a real demonstrated ability to defeat current stealth comes out, then our next "stealth" capability will be unveiled and the logical next evolution would be full cloak.

Originally posted by toreishi
reply to post by fixer1967

 

yet, you're still listening to something that's being put out. and listening for something that's interfering with that something that you're listening to.

Look up "passive radar"
It uses radio signals for everything. From hand held cell phones to TV and radio stations and even radio noise from space. You are just listening. How can they find you is you are just listening and not putting out any signal? And what is there to jam? To try and jam every thing even space noise? Any signal what so ever the air craft put out would give it away that much faster. Ground base jammers would only help you find the air craft because then you listen to the jamming signal and it becomes your source signal. Look up "passive radar" the term is really a misnomer.
Passive radar
Also look up "Passive coherent location (PCL) systems"

And the surport platform for all of this is getting smaller and smaller. The computers needed to run the system is getting smaller every day. These system are in use TODAY. These systems are not on the drawning boards but are in the field. As of now it is not in wide spread use but as each day comes it is spreading. And by the time you are close enough to get an IR lock on a pick up truck parked in the bushes someone already has a lock on you.

I just found this. It is a small portable unit called the HA100
HA100

reply to post by fixer1967


you'll be listening to a lot of noise that way. and you still won't be able to hear an F-22/F-35 toss/pop-up an SDB from 100 miles (can it really do that?). and maybe try stopping this too.