French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

reply to post by 23432


A woman shouldn't be allowed to get on a plane with her face completely covered.

Just as she shouldn't be allowed to get on the plane naked.

A woman with her face covered should be required to remove the covering, or get sent back home.

Chances are, that if she arrived naked, she would be dealt with more harshly.

So how about you? Are you as fully in support of nudism as you are of the burqa?

Are you comfortable with a naked man standing in line with you and your family at the market?

Originally posted by 23432

Originally posted by IronArm


That aside, these women aren't nessisarily thinking "I'm a liberated tent wearer!". maybe they do like it. If they do, well and dandy, but that doesn't fit into the French culture, so they can continue that lifestyle in the land or thier origin.

What happens to an Iranian or Saudi woman who fly into Paris ?

Before you answer me , let me give you some idea about oppressed women in Islam .

Flights from Iran take off towards west and as soon as the Iranian air space is cleared , all women head for the toilets on the plane . They go in wearing burqa , they come out wearing mini skirts and make up like a barbie doll on their faces .

Whether Saudi women do this or not , I do not know but if they did , it wouldn't surprise me .

These women are oppressed and I have been saying so as far back as 1972 .

Now , what happens to our passenger when she lands in Paris ?

If she hasn't changed on the plane , do you think she would change willingly at the immigration ?

Should we even make this thing a law related issue ?

How would you feel one day you end up in a country and they tell you trousers are banned and you must wear kilts at all times .

I love kilts....

Just my humble opinion...

I think that when people move into a new country they should learn the laws and way of life of that country while keeping their own identity is important. By learning the host countries way of life will help migrants intergrate with the population and gain access to all the good things the free world has to offer, eg, education, medical care, career opportunites, etc..

I don't FULLY agree with the way France has done this but i can understand where they are coming from. The way i see it, if France (like any free world country) is offering the freedoms to muslims that muslims could never dream of getting from there own country then i would say that by not wearing a burka is a small price for that. On the down side, i do feel the way the french have done this is heavy handed and has not giving the muslims a chance to gradually intergrate this law over a period of time which could have been a better approach.

For muslims....I agree that they do have the right to their own identity just like anybody else but i do feel that they must abey the law of the host conutry they live in. I think the biggest problem is coming from the fact that muslims don't really interact with the population of the host country they live in and they don't promote any understanding about themselves to anybody which makes people nervous considering the state of the world at the minute.

I believe that muslims should not cut themselves off from society as they are causing more harm to themselves than they realise. They expect people to give them full understanding of their lifestyles and choices but if they don't intergrate and spread understanding about their culture to the population around them then how can muslims expect people to trust and respect them?

In the end i think the muslim people should learn to be more open and to help people understand them better so that we could coexist on better terms, by cutting yourselves off only promotes ignorance and intolerance, we let you into our countries and provide you with what you never would have had in your own countries so why not meet us half-way? If you don't then you would only have yourselves to blame if we do something like these burka ban laws.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You kinky dog. I actually believe you might be comfortable with nudism, or at least think you might be comfortable with it, until you were standing in line next to naked people, who you wish to god you did not have to see naked.

I am alright with your sexual practices, not my cup of tea, but as long as everyone is willing, no big deal. I just disagree that a law against the burqa is restricting anyone's freedom, anymore than a law against nudity.

It is a matter of one persons rights verses another. I feel that I have the right to not have to be exposed to things I have no desire to see, and that includes religiously oppressive garb like the burqa, and people walking around naked, and the vast majority of people agree with me, especially on the naked part.

I am against laws that restrict our liberty, and there are a great many laws on the books that are far more oppressive, that people who are against the burqa ban, completely support.

Walking around naked, or covered from head to toe, are extremes, and forcing this type of extreme behavior to only be allowed in private, is completely reasonable.

Another nail in the coffin for Freedom in Europe. What's next? no more gloves incase you intend on hiding your finger prints? No more masks on halloween?

Not that I'm going to make a long arguement for women wearing the veil, but banning a piece of cloth which some people consider an important part of their faith is pathetic.

People should be free to practise their religion....period.

It don`t matter a jot what you believe to be the true reason why women choose to be veiled.

A case is already being lodged in the French courts to overturn this blatent attack on human rights.

I suspect it will go all the way to the European Court of Human rights.

If it fails.... mass direct action will be the only course left.

Just like in the segregated south with the diner sit ins, we should all flaunt the veil ban by wearing veils in our 1000s.The courts system and police will capitulate within weeks if not days.

People should be free to practise their religion....period.

It don`t matter a jot what you believe to be the true reason why women choose to be veiled.

A case is already being lodged in the French courts to overturn this blatent attack on human rights.

I suspect it will go all the way to the European Court of Human rights.

If it fails.... mass direct action will be the only course left.

Just like in the segregated south with the diner sit ins, we should all flaunt the veil ban by wearing veils in our 1000s.The courts system and police will capitulate within weeks if not days.

reply to post by poet1b

A woman shouldn't be allowed to get on a plane with her face completely covered.

Thankfully it's just those rotten Muslim men telling women what to do not you!

Your statement here is actually 'People should always be afraid, and should be ruled through their fears, and fears of one another'

Just as she shouldn't be allowed to get on the plane naked.

However the other extreme scares me too!

Your statement here is actually 'There should be an inbetween between the two extremes, I should get to decide what it is, and it should be law!"

A woman with her face covered should be required to remove the covering, or get sent back home.

She didn't dress like you like and you are frightened by that, you reject her!

Chances are, that if she arrived naked, she would be dealt with more harshly.

What are you thinking here, stoning her, beheading her, oh great protector of women and freedom!

Are you comfortable with a naked man standing in line with you and your family at the market?

Because that same man isn't really naked underneath his clothes?

It's pretty amazing you are worried that the Muslims are too repressed and convoluted.

reply to post by Saracen1


I hope a family of Santerians moves in next door to you.

The people of France should respond by running around naked.

Originally posted by IronArm


I love kilts....

One line replies are frowned upon on this board . I had a warning from a mod 2 days ago for a one line response .
I wonder if the same mod is watching your replies with same zeal ?
What do you think ?

As for my post to you and your reply , well , disappointingly short would be my answer .

What if it was a Sarong not a Kilt ?

Originally posted by Saracen1
People should be free to practise their religion....period.

It don`t matter a jot what you believe to be the true reason why women choose to be veiled.

A case is already being lodged in the French courts to overturn this blatent attack on human rights.

I suspect it will go all the way to the European Court of Human rights.

If it fails.... mass direct action will be the only course left.

Just like in the segregated south with the diner sit ins, we should all flaunt the veil ban by wearing veils in our 1000s.The courts system and police will capitulate within weeks if not days.

Lets see how well it works when I walk into Iran with my Cross Tattoo on my neck. Wait, nope, probly gonna die.

Human Rights my toush. What about the rights for French to be French and Live in France, not in Saudi Arabia 2.0?

And of course, by mass direct action, I'm sure you mean the typical suicide bombers, dirty bomb tricks, hiding, not fighting like men, against men, but just bombing random civilians at will in places the French wish to be French? That mass action?

reply to post by poet1b

You kinky dog. I actually believe you might be comfortable with nudism, or at least think you might be comfortable with it, until you were standing in line next to naked people, who you wish to god you did not have to see naked.

I am now but it was a tough hurdle to get over. One of my female friends in the lifestyle pestered and pestered me to go with her many years ago and I really was afraid to take off my clothes, in front of her friends and so many strangers.

I tried a couple of times and would chicken out.

I realized I was being silly that the thousands of naked people there weren't all going to stop and stare or point or snicker, but I had a big mental block to it.

Eventually I went by myself when her and her friends weren't there and worked up the courage and found out it was quite relaxing and freeing.

Yes there are many unatractive people there but once you understand what it like to be publicly naked it's really just about the freedom of enjoying that, not any erotica.

The Haulover beach is the most peaceful and well ordered beach in the whole Miami-Dade system, with the fewest police and emergency calls year after year despite being backed year round with people from all over the world who flock to it because it is a legally nude beach.

I have no problem seeing people in their natural form, and don't consider it to be sexual or erotic, just people in their natural form, most nudists feel the same way.

I am alright with your sexual practices, not my cup of tea, but as long as everyone is willing, no big deal. I just disagree that a law against the burqa is restricting anyone's freedom, anymore than a law against nudity.

It certainly is restricting people's freedom when you purposefully prohibit them from making a choice they might want to make. That is what freedom is all about. The freedom to decide for yourself.

It is a matter of one persons rights verses another. I feel that I have the right to not have to be exposed to things I have no desire to see, and that includes religiously oppressive garb like the burqa, and people walking around naked, and the vast majority of people agree with me, especially on the naked part.

Pretty amazing human beings are uncomfortable and intollerant of their own natural state. That really is a self esteem and respect issue that causes that, as well as a desire for the world just to be precisely the way you imagine you would enjoy it.

In reality many European Beaches are nude beaches and they aren't as repressed or inhibited by nutidity.

Whether you understand it or not your shame of the human body is religious related, and your dislike of the burka is religious related.

These are simple societal constructs introduced through religion and culture because the truth is you are born naked and in a natural state and in no way shape or form could that possible be bad.

It's all simply part of a conditioning meant to make you believe your natural self is bad, and to look for and too authority to define what is good.

It's all part of the brainwashing that indoctrinates you into the 'controlled' herd.

I am against laws that restrict our liberty, and there are a great many laws on the books that are far more oppressive, that people who are against the burqa ban, completely support.

So lets ignore those while we add one more!

I support one law and it's called do no harm, by the way if you feel harmed because you saw a naked person or a burka that's not the same as being harmed.

Every other law is simply about control of the masses and teaching them to accept authority and control as good.

Walking around naked, or covered from head to toe, are extremes, and forcing this type of extreme behavior to only be allowed in private, is completely reasonable.

Actually no it's not extreme, and no it's not reasonable, you were just born into a society that taught you that.

Hence my own hangups and challenges I had to overcome as described above only to discover something wonderfully enjoyable, peaceful and natural once I did.

I was lucky I had an open enough mind to do that, and was prepared to challenge myself to that end.

Do you really want to make that harder for people? You aren't making them any freer or safer in the process.

Originally posted by 23432

Originally posted by IronArm


I love kilts....

One line replies are frowned upon on this board . I had a warning from a mod 2 days ago for a one line response .
I wonder if the same mod is watching your replies with same zeal ?

What do you think ?

As for my post to you and your reply , well , disappointingly short would be my answer .

What if it was a Sarong not a Kilt ?

edit on 14-4-2011 by 23432 because: add

Sorry, that was a pretty pathetic answer, I'll confess up to that.

But this is the argument that I always get into, the whole, what if it were reversed? What if? What it? Well, this is reality. The French feel thier lifestyle is being treatend, so they are retaliating. They are saying enough. This is reality, and this is them doing what they can to protect thier lives in thier country.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by 23432

 

I am fully aware that there are women who choose to wear the burqa. They might think they are being liberated from male oppression, but that, in my opinion, is because they have been programmed to think that way.

Whether or not you can wrap your head around the reality of the matter, the fact is that it is not natural to walk around completely covered from head to toe. It is more natural to walk around naked.

If we can't ban the burqa, then we shouldn't be able to ban the right of people to walk around naked.

That ought to sit well the man whose burqa attired wife is approached by a naked man with his johnson swinging, who reaches around her for a loaf of bread at the market. Now that is a kinky image. That would make a great Utube video.

Are you all on board with the right of people to walk around naked, just as you are so much in favor of the burqa?

If you can't agree to the right of people to walk around naked, then your whole argument in support of the burqa is pure nonsense, and completely hypocritical.

While you can post what ever you want here on the thread, in your head, you will have to face the truth.

The truth is that these 300 women wear a garment and it bothers you a lot so you are thinking of underwriting new laws .

I am not bothered with what others wear , I am bothered with what I wear .

Nudity is allowed in France and if some one want to go a bank all nude , well it is ok with me but they would be breaking the indecency laws of France and the bank would probably say no to their custom too .

Your opinion on these womens motives to wear these garments , irrelevant .
They have every right to wear a garment of their choice .
Deny this right of these women and you are the one who is acting like those baaaaaad muslim guys who force their women to cover up .

And that is the irony of this situation for you but I am afraid you are too fearfull to appreciate the sillyness of your your unfounded fears .

For the record , as a man , I believe it is not my place to tell any adult what to wear and this includes your naked idiot as well as the ninja like sisters in burqa .

Originally posted by Saracen1
People should be free to practise their religion....period.

It don`t matter a jot what you believe to be the true reason why women choose to be veiled.

A case is already being lodged in the French courts to overturn this blatent attack on human rights.

I suspect it will go all the way to the European Court of Human rights.

If it fails.... mass direct action will be the only course left.

Just like in the segregated south with the diner sit ins, we should all flaunt the veil ban by wearing veils in our 1000s.The courts system and police will capitulate within weeks if not days.

What about the women who are forced to cover up, where is there human rights?

Unless we (society) can be sure 100% that every women wearing the burqa does so freely, it should imho be banned.
What about the the school children who have no choice?

Originally posted by IronArm

Originally posted by 23432

Originally posted by IronArm


I love kilts....

One line replies are frowned upon on this board . I had a warning from a mod 2 days ago for a one line response .
I wonder if the same mod is watching your replies with same zeal ?

What do you think ?

As for my post to you and your reply , well , disappointingly short would be my answer .

What if it was a Sarong not a Kilt ?

edit on 14-4-2011 by 23432 because: add

Sorry, that was a pretty pathetic answer, I'll confess up to that.

But this is the argument that I always get into, the whole, what if it were reversed? What if? What it? Well, this is reality. The French feel thier lifestyle is being treatend, so they are retaliating. They are saying enough. This is reality, and this is them doing what they can to protect thier lives in thier country.

Thank you .


As for French doing what they are doing , well , yes Islam is not welcomed in Europe and really , everybody knows it by now .

ps what say you , no trousers , ever ?
It is only Sarong for you .
Do you not feel oppressed yet ?

reply to post by IronArm


The French Lifestyle isn't being threatened how could it be. These women aren't walking down the street with machine guns telling French people how to dress or live, they are just walking down the street minding their own business.

This is the French just simply forcing their lifestyle on people to self validate it, and using every excuse in the book to try to justify it.

Your argument really is, well Iran does this, Saudi does that, I hate it and them for it, but since they do it in one form or another we ought to do it too, because it's alright if we do it, just not them!

So all you are is on a regressive path to the kind of society you claim you don't want, by using the same kind of constructs to impose the one you do want, assuming because you want it, it must be good.

That you are doing no harm to anyone by forcing them to do it too.

So in a funny way you actually lost to what you are fighting already, by adopting the very same type of attitude and mindset as to forcing society to conform as the societies do that you don't like.

In the process you lose what ever moral highground you might have had.

You become just like them.

Congradulations you are hereby Islamified!

Originally posted by dizzylizzy

Originally posted by Saracen1
People should be free to practise their religion....period.

It don`t matter a jot what you believe to be the true reason why women choose to be veiled.

A case is already being lodged in the French courts to overturn this blatent attack on human rights.

I suspect it will go all the way to the European Court of Human rights.

If it fails.... mass direct action will be the only course left.

Just like in the segregated south with the diner sit ins, we should all flaunt the veil ban by wearing veils in our 1000s.The courts system and police will capitulate within weeks if not days.

What about the women who are forced to cover up, where is there human rights?

Unless we (society) can be sure 100% that every women wearing the burqa does so freely, it should imho be banned.
What about the the school children who have no choice?

National phone line for abused women & children can deal with those who are forced and police can bring criminal charges against them .

But in the words of Mrs T , there is no such a thing as a society .

Before my trip to Eqypt several years ago, I had a much more liberal attitude towards these things, and Arabs in general.

On my trip with my proud, blonde haired wife, we followed what we were told to do by our tour guide. My wife wore a modest hat that covered her hair and what we thought were fairly modest shorts.

Strolling the streets of sunny Cairo was a shock. Everywhere we went, local men stared openly at my wife. One one occation a man told me in stilted english after eyeing her appraisingly, that she had "good childbearing hips" before wandering off. Another man i swore tried to grab her breasts, and we were spit at by a third man.

This was all in the course of a single afternoon. One incident i could see as being coincidence, two perhaps as well, but a day of glaring and groping was all i could take. I will never patronage another Arab country, especially as Eqypt is considered by most to be "moderate". The lack of respect towards women is endemic over there, and i have seen the proof with my own eyes. Places like Saudi Arabia where women cannot be seen in public without full covering and the company of a related male sicken me.

The burka, hijab, whatever, are what they are, and that is to hide women from men who cannot control their baser instincts. Its the same logic as people who say girls in miniskirts deserve to be raped.

reply to post by dizzylizzy


What about children forced to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, until we can be sure as a society that they want to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches should be banned!

Now how exactly as a society are you ever going to determine that they want to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

By conducting a poll like this.

Tommy, Suzie do you like it when your mom and dad force you to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwiches?

Ah...well, no!

Tommy, Suzie, I have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich here and a candy bar with chocolate and nougat and caramel which would you like?

Ah...the candy bar!

Tommy, Suzie I hope I haven't spoiled your appetite but would you like to have that peanut butter and Jelly sandwich now or would you like to go to chuckie cheese for Pizza and Games?

Chuckie cheese, chuckie cheese.

There you have it people fairly questioned these children just don't want to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwiches.

Truth be known many of these Burka studies are conducted the same way, with the same kind of loaded questions, often put to poor women being paid or given food to participate in the poll.

Now I have no doubt some kids hate peanut and butter sandwiches and some women would prefer not to wear the burka, but the question remains how do you really objectively find out?