The Truth About Disinfo Agents?

I think i sit on both sides of the fence on this one, I agree you can't just scream like a little child "disinfo disinfo" if you disagree with somebody's post. Alternatively like others said it wouldn't surprise me if there where quiet a few agents who trolled the internet looking for any information and discrediting it if needed. I think you would find that for ATS there would be a few accounts setup in case a point needed to be swayed. However the times this occur i believe would be minimal and only if a topic of high importance was gaining ground (all conjecture) on a side note I think majority of the "disinfo agents" and "sidetrackers" are internet trolls out for a laugh. You can thank the chan for breading them and then setting them free

reply to post by pshea38


me thinketh thou doest protest too much, hope you get it

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

Also, if the government wanted to infiltrate an online community dealing with conspiracies, etc...then they would have to infiltrate as many as possible,...The manpower required to achieve this would be staggering, not to mention if I was correct in assuming every poster would have to have a security clearance that would be higher than "entry level," or secret (I think that is the first level, not sure...) I could be wrong in this assumption, but it makes sense to me.

Here is how it is done.

I am afraid it is rather long and complicated so stay with me. It took me a couple years to figure it out.



It all started out when a group of us farmers tried to get Organic Consumers Assoc. Food & Water Watch and La Vidi Locavore to join in our fight against Monsanto's Food Safety bill.

We were SHOCKED when instead of helping they started a massive internet dis-info campaign called HR875: Stop the Hysteria!

This is typical of the 136 hits if you google that phrase.

...These statements are NOT true and the bill does have good elements. I talked to Organic Consumers Association, a leader in the sustainable food movement, to get some clarification. Staff from the reputable group allayed my fears and told me....

BULL POOP! I have read ever @#$@ word of that blasted bill. This lawyer sums it up nicely:

...Section 406 of the bill reads as follows: “PRESUMPTION. In any action to enforce the requirements of the food safety law, the connection with interstate commerce required for jurisdiction shall be presumed to exist.”

Lori Robertson of FactCheck.org, who is not a lawyer (she has a B.A. in advertising), claims the bill doesn’t apply to “that tomato plant in your backyard.”

As a lawyer, I am skeptical of this claim (I co-represented the prevailing defendant in the last successful constitutional challenge to federal regulation under the interstate commerce clause, United States v. Morrison (2000), one of only two cases in 70 years in which a challenge was successful). Congress's power under the Constitution's Commerce Clause is almost unlimited in the eyes of the courts, and thus can reach the "tomato plant in your backyard."

This so-called “food safety” bill may actually make food less safe....

So what the heck happened???

You will note Lori Robertson of FactCheck.org, has a B.A. in advertising. A BIG Red Flag is I ever saw one.

G. Edward Griffin in his Talk on the Federal Reserve pointed the way forward. He said.

...We're talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can't even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel. A dead short across the productive element of society. ....this huge river of wealth flowing into the banking cartel.

You are led to the question of where is this river flowing? ..... When a person has all the wealth that you could possibly want for the material pleasures of life, what is left? Power. They are using this river of wealth to acquire power over you and me and our children.

.... They are literally buying up the world but not the real estate and the hardware, they're buying control over the organizations, the groups and institutions that control people. In other words, to be specific, they are buying control over politicians, political parties, television networks, cable networks, newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, wire services, motion picture studios, universities, labor unions, church organizations, trade associations, tax-exempt foundations, multi-national corporations, boy scouts, girl scouts, you name it..... That's a critical area for expenditure on their part.

So I do some digging and I find:

Organic Consumers Association $57,176.00- 2000 – 2005 Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors

Also $35,750.00 from The Tides Foundation for the year 2006.


One board director of Food and Water Watch is Dennis Keeney. He is a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy
$25,000.00 - 2006 - Tides
$71,774.00 - 1997 to 2001 - Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors
$60,000.00 - 1999 to 2001 - Rockefeller Brothers Fund
$82,500.00 - 1991 to 2003 - Rockefeller Family Fund
$344,134.00 - 2000 to 2004 - Rockefeller Foundation

Mark Ritchie: President of Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy; has Connections to Tides. The Tides Foundation, founded in 1976, has provided more than $300 million in funding for what it calls "positive social change...

The Tides Center’s corporate registration documents on file in Minnesota show that Mark Ritchie is its “registered agent.” This might explain why the Tides Foundation has paid over $20,000 to a commercial corporation owned by Ritchie and his brother....The Ritchie brothers run this for-profit venture out of the same offices of their nonprofit (IATP)...

This is business as usual for Mark Ritchie, though. He is the mastermind behind several other food-scare and health-scare organizations, all of which get appreciable funding through his Tides connection... activistcash.com...

Tides Foundation & Tides Center: - Donations FROM Rockefeller's $9,467,955.00 (1991 - 2005)
Rockefeller Family Fund: $1,225,000.00 1991 – 2004
Rockefeller Brothers Foundation $2,879,900.00 1993 – 2005
Rockefeller Foundation $4,543,775.00 1993 – 2005
Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors $819,300.00 1997 – 2004

Money of course is only one type of bribe. The other is POWER. Further digging gives us:

Maude Barlow a “no dog in this fight” Canadian, is a director of both. She has been handsomely rewarded for selling the US consumer out with an appointment as New Senior Advisor to the UN president on October 21, 2008.

Mark Ritchie and Maude Barlow are in it for the power and money. They are the ones who run the show and usually know what is going on.

"Very few of even the larger international NGOs are operationally democratic, in the sense that members elect officers or direct policy on particular issues," notes Peter Spiro. "Arguably it is more often money than membership that determines influence, and money more often represents the support of centralized elites, such as major foundations, than of the grass roots." The CGG has benefited substantially from the largesse of the MacArthur, Carnegie, and Ford Foundations. www.afn.org...

But what about La Vida Locavoire??? aka Orange Cloud. She was all over the internet making comment after comment. A real life dis-info agent.

Orange Cloud lists herself as Jill Richardson - Consultant on her website, La Vida Locavore, but she is also a "UC San Diego" Sustainability Coordinator and is working on the practical aspects of UN Agenda 21 for the University of California, San Diego. If you have not figured it out already "Sustainability" is the code word for the UN Agenda 21.

Jill represents the third type of Dis-info, the true believer and therefore the most dangerous kind.

The ‘Innocents' Clubs’

...How did it come about that much of the British intelligensia, for decades, was persuaded of the moral superiority of Communism, and of its inevitability as the future political system of the world? One man, virtually unknown and unnoticed, can claim the dubious distinction of being the prime mover....

Trotsky chose well in Münzenberg. Following the rise to power of the Bolsheviks, he pioneered most of the manipulative political techniques which are a feature of life in Britain today. Ad hoc committees for endless causes, politicized arts festivals, mock trials, celebrity letterheads, disinformation stunts and protest marches all sprang from Münzenberg's sheer genius for propaganda.

Stephen Koch, in his book Double Lives: Stalin, Willi Münzenberg and the Seduction of the Intellectuals, calls this "righteous politics."

During the 1920's and most of the 1930's Münzenberg played a leading role in the Comintern, Lenin's front for world-wide co-ordination of the left under Russian control. Under Münzenberg's direction, hundreds of groups, committees and publications cynically used and manipulated the devout radicals of the West.

Most of this army of workers in what Münzenberg called 'Innocents' Clubs' had no idea they were working for Stalin. They were led to believe that they were advancing the cause of a sort of socialist humanism. The descendents of the 'Innocents' Clubs' are still hard at work in our universities and colleges.

Every year a new cohort of impressionable students join groups like the Anti-Nazi League believing them to be benign opponents of oppression, rather than the Trotskyite fronts they really are.

The other avenues for spreading Disinformation:

Control of the News:

According to Congressional Record for 1917: "...the J.P. Morgan [banking] interests.... and their subsidiary organizations got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press of the US.... They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. ...an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information...." Congressman Oscar Callaway statements included in the Congressional Record (vol. 54, February 9, 1917, p. 2947).
www.crossroad.to...

That control has not ended: JP Morgan controls 54 U.S. daily newspapers,and owns 31 television stations. www.newsandtech.com...

CONTROL of EDUCATION

In this country the manipulation of education was evident when the Bank Cartel placed their specially groomed economists in universities.

“They gave large amounts of money to some of the better known universities in America; they created newly formed departments of economics with that money; they hand picked their own people to be the professors to head up those departments and then those professors with all of their academic credentials gave speeches and wrote scholarly essays extolling the virtues of the Federal Reserve System. www.bigeye.com...

Rockefeller and Carnegie Foundations INTENTIONALLY ALTERED AMERICAN HISTORY

Norman Dodd tells how the Rockefeller, Carnegie, Guggenheim and Ford Foundations set out to control education and rewrite American history in order to merge America into the one-world government they could control....

...they approach the Guggenheim Foundation which specialized in fellowships and say, when we find young men in the process of studying for doctorates in the field of American history.... they assembled 20 and they take this 20 potential teachers of American history to London and there they’re briefed into what is expected of them when as and if they secure appointments in keeping with the doctorates they will have earned.

And that group of 20 historians ultimately becomes the nucleus of the American Historical Association....

Carroll Quigley, an influential former history professor at the Foreign Service Schools of Georgetown University. ...Bill Clinton's mentor,..

"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years, and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records.... [I]n general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown...."[5]

"At the end of the war of 1914 [World War 1], it became clear that the organization of this [secret] system had to be greatly extended... the task was entrusted to Lionel Curtis who established, in England and each dominion, a front organization to the existing local Round Table Group. This front organization, called the Royal Institute of International Affairs, had as its nucleus in each area the existing submerged Round Table Group. In New York it was known as the Council on Foreign Relations, and was a front for J. P. Morgan and Company.... In fact, the original plans for the Royal Institute of International Affairs and The Council of Foreign Relations were drawn up at Paris [Peace Conference of 1919..

In other words, this conspiracy was international from the start. And, beginning with the British diamond magnate, Cecil Rhodes, it was grounded in enormous wealth -- riches acquired through capitalism, not through the global socialism it envisions for all but the elite. The key players were power-driven bankers, rich corporations, and tax-free foundations that controlled the resources needed to buy the cooperation of publishers,
media moguls, educational institutions, and government leaders across the political spectrum.... www.crossroad.to...

Then you have John Dewey, "Father of Progressive Education", founding member of the American Fabian Society and responsible for DUMBING DOWN AMERICA!

David Rockefeller even admits he and a secret cabal were working against the best interests of the United States to "build a more integrated global political and economic structure" in his Autobiography

....Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - Pg. 405 of David Rockefeller's Autobiography, 2002

(Note: there is more than one group, this is the Banker/intellectual elite aka The Fabian Society)
MORE:
THE STAINED GLASS WINDOW FROM THE FABIAN SOCIETY
Also check out the issues page. Half way down are a bunch of pdfs like Part 4: The War on Terrorism - interesting reading.

Bankrolling the Bolshievik Revolution

The Fabians, the Round Table, and the Rhodes Scholars

reply to post by crimvelvet


Now is someone going to call me a dis-info agent???

That is where you catch the suckers. Most use Ad Hominem attacks or better yet they use information from a source that has been set-up for the purpose often times long before it is needed.

Organic Consumers and the IPCC. (Global Warming) are classic examples.

It takes a lot of digging to turn over the rock and find the bankster hiding under it.

For example: IPCC AR4 is riddled with non peer reviewed WWF papers. and if you bother to look over at Activistcash you find WWF is a big winner in the foundation grant sweepstakes. Heck the US government dumps millions into it, providing 20% of its funding. But take a look at one of its presidents and its initial funding.

Donna Laframboise, the creator of NOconsensus.org gives a good listing of what to look for.

As I said a lot of the Dis-info agents are just brainwashed dupes regurgitating what they have swallowed from the Bankster funded sources.

disinfo can indeed come from private operations
www.disinfo.com...

Media Matters, the liberal activist group that wages a rhetorical war against Fox News Channel and others in the conservative press, will announce on Wednesday the receipt of a $1 million donation from the philanthropist George Soros.

In a statement obtained by The Caucus, the organization says it plans to use the money to intensify its efforts to hold the Fox host Glenn Beck and others on the cable news channel accountable for their reporting.

www.infowars.com...
Brock told Smith what he has in mind – nothing short of an all-out jihad against the opposition. “Brock listed the fronts on which Media Matters — which he said is operating on a $10 million-plus annual budget — is working to chip away at Fox and its parent company, News Corp. They include its bread-and-butter distribution of embarrassing clips and attempts to rebut Fox points, as well as a series of under-the-radar tactics,” writes Smith

did that man just say...'under the radar tactics'?

Calls of "disinfo agent", "troll", "shill" and the like shows the claimaint has a really paranoid egocentrism problem. There is nothing said on an open, public internet forum that really matters to anyone besides the other people who post here.
The OP was right, it would a big waste of time, money, and man-hours. Who cares in any level of power that someone in the hills of the East Central US hills doesn't understand enough about astronomy to realize that anything as large as Nibiru is claimed to be cannot possibly be ducking behind the sun when someone comes looking for it? Or thinks that exhaust plumes of high flying jets are somehow targeting them for some unknown reason, with some unknown thing, by someone unknown? Or any of the other conspiracies found here everyday? Nobody here does anything about any of their claims more than using the internet to see the lastest line of BS and adding it to their paranoia. Nobody here is that important. They come here daily, whine about the state of the affairs as they envision them, and cry "disinfo agent" when someone talks logic or presents some facts that go counter to their beliefs. Which means they sit behind their monitors and spend hours researching, trying to link things together to show they are right somehow, then coming on here and whining about the minutae that they have found, then spend more hours trying to prove your viewpoint.
And doesn't do anything about it except whine behind their monitor.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Hahahahahaha. Very funny.

Here is my response on the topic on another thread

Stars15K
Face it, Coyote, anyone that disagrees with you is a disinfo agent. Disinfo agent is something you use to shield yourself from questions and logic. And good science.

Me
Not at all, I don't think I've used that term outside of the chemtrail threads and the pack that runs in them. You're welcome to check my entire post history to verify the veracity of that. There's a lot of other stuff on the board that I disagree with, but the dialogue in the other threads doesn't usually degrade to the point that the trail threads do. Those threads seem to incite a special kind of vehemence on both sides. It's not about science and logic, it's about how the conversation happens, which was the entire point of the challenge post.

Stars15k
But without proof, calling someone a disinfo agent is spurious. It's not nice, polite, doesn't promote goodwill, and sure as heck makes any discussion with the people who use this ploy non-productive. It stifles good debate. It's a bullying tactic. It's name-calling and petty. It's juvenille. And most importantly, it's a lie.


Me
You know, I actually agree with that. It's not playing nice with others, but neither is the way you guys conduct yourselves either (at least on those threads.) Perhaps disinfo agent is incorrect as it implies a paid agenda. As I use it (when I do) I mean it to be an indication that people are using the tactics of disinfo www.911truth.org... not that they necessarily are being paid to do that. To verify that all you have to do is compare the list of tactics with the way a person communicates. No more proof is needed. If the appellation bothers you don't use the techniques. Heck, I used some of those tactics myself in the design of the Challenge OP, putting forth a no-win question and so someone could (and did) call me on that (and I know that all I'm interested in is getting to the whole truth-and nobody is paying me for that.) I used the tactics to make a point as to how the tactics were being used by the population of those threads at large. Isn't what you do, constantly pummeling people for proof when they just wish to have a discussion, bullying? If it's not I don't know what is. You say it's just about scientific proof and evasion but it is still bullying.

And Aloysius:
Well it's not hard to list all my posts in that thread - there's only a singel page of them - www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=Aloysius+the+Gaul

Me
I meant context as a whole, not just in that thread in particular. It's nearly impossible to determine the character of a more or less anonymous person by simply looking at their contributions to a single thread. edit on 30-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: reply to Aloysius edit on 30-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given) edit on 30-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: punctuation edit on 30-3-2011 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given) And when I say pack, I mean pack. I'm not saying anything but an observation, but it's interesting to me that this started with an interaction with Chadwickus and grew to include Stars15k, and Aloysius. All three of you are found all over almost every chemtrail thread. Now if I were to get a response on this from someone whose name I didn't recognize from a chemtrail thread, that would be something.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyone know can scan through my entire post history and verify what I said was true. Disinfo is as disinfo does whether they are being paid or not. The only time I have accused people of being disinfo agents (as I state above, perhaps an incorrect term to use since it implies being paid rather than just comparing the way a person communicates against a list) is on chemtrail threads. Apparently this pi**ses people off and so they feel the need to post something like quoted above

Here is a link to a deconstruction of disinfo techniques on a chemtrail thread. Whether or not these people are being paid to do so, it is obvious they are making use of the techniques. It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with someone, it has to do with the content and character of their communications. Go ahead, dissect all of my posts if you want. I've got confidence in the integrity of my communications and it would be an interesting exercise in perception.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here again are links to tactics of disinformation. Make up you own mind.

www.911truth.org...
pakalert.wordpress.com...

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

HOW TO SPOT A DIS-INFO AGENT

Actually it is pretty easy.
Mr. Kissinger gives us the key:

Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people; control money and you control the world.

His other big issue is Population Control

So we now have four areas we can identify as being of interest to TPTB
OIL (energy)
FOOD
MONEY
POPULATION
and a fifth WAR - only bankers and military weapons manufactures win wars, never the sheeple involved.

MONEY - If someone is defending the Federal Reserve of Fractional Reserve banking I get suspicious.

FOOD - If someone is FOR government control of farmers (not food processing) or for GMO I get suspicious.

WAR - If someone is FOR war that is not on US soil I get suspicious.

POPULATION CONTROL - Those who advocate draconian measures hit the button too.

OIL - oil is a relatively "scarce" material that is easily controlled. Therefore it is the power source of choice by TPTB (they already OWN it) With "carbon trading" this gives them a big control handle. Solar and Wind are dead ends due to the physics involved but are big money makers. Hydro and Nuclear produce a lot of "free" energy after the initial investment and are therefore discouraged.

Am I crazy??? Check out the US gov website about BANNING the use of Hydro power. Notice how drilling for oil is also banned in the USA, so we must buy through foreign sources with the Rockefellers & Co. as the middlemen.

So those are two more areas, hydro dams and oil drilling that have TPTB controlling the discussion.

Also take a look at the hysteria over the problems in Japan. little is said about the thousands who died instead it is "oh My goodness" the radiation will hit the USA ... "We are all going to die!"

Everyone thinks the MSM, controlled by TPTB, is hiding the worst while never realizing it is the exact opposite.

No one ever points out:
There were over 900 atmospheric and underground nuclear test in the USA alone.
There were 12 high-altitude nuclear tests during the late 1950′s and early 1960′s off the coast of California at Johnston Island.
From 1945 until 2008, there have been over 2,000 nuclear tests conducted worldwide.
From: www.atomicarchive.com...

This is the radiation map for the exposure from all that testing in the USA: MAP

I was a kid in one of the heavy fallout areas and drank a quart of milk a day for over 35 years. Sorry I am NOT going to panic because a bit of radiation (which has occurs naturally too) is found in milk.

Is their really a problem??? of course. There is also a HUGE amount of toxic chemicals from the demolished industrial buildings.

Fukushima Nuclear Accident Update Log from the
International Atomic Energy Agency seems to be a realistic source for news.

As somebody else said, in the strictest sense, anything other than the Truth is disinformation. Since all of us at one time or another don't perceive the entire truth about a subject and use that to develop our "pet conspiracy theories" and then communicate them (and argue for them) in forums such as this, then all of us, including myself, are guilty of disseminating disinformation at one time or another. I think that TPTB use this against us all the time. Why go to the trouble of using their agents when they can just use us against ourselves?

what do blue and yellow get when mixed green , yes? Well the dis-info will say it is not green, he/ she will argue it is not a true color, that it is a shade, that is part blue part yellow but will not say it is green.

If your memetic programming is false or even a simple half truth then you are a disinfo agent. Memetics can be false and true.
Of course this simple answer isn't enough because humans have this insatiable need to compete with one another and be god. To dig further into philosophies, intellectual reasoning and discussion is to only keep you bound and enslaved chasing your tail round and round.

Right vs Wrong - verses- Truth vs False

reply to post by stars15k

There is nothing said on an open, public internet forum that really matters to anyone besides the other people who post here. The OP was right, it would a big waste of time, money, and man-hours....

Actually it matters very much.

The Fight between farmers and the World Trade Organization for the public opinion needed to approve or oppose laws like the Food Safety Modernization Act and similar laws in Canada, Australia, and the EU are a perfect example.

Look at the blasted Bio-fuel law, and WTO.

"Global Warming" is the hype used to pass a rip-off law that actually burns MORE oil than it saves.

TIME LINE

#1. 1995 VP of Cargill Dan Amstutz writes World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag. It got rid of tariffs and opened borders.

#2. Amstutz writes 1996 farm bill called Freedom to Farm (Freedom to Fail Act) that over produces very cheap grain. The law also change US grain reserve policy.

#3. Amstutz goes to work for Goldman Sachs.

#4. Gramm, head of the CFTC, helped firms such as Goldman Sachs gain influence over the commodity markets. At the end of 2006, food prices across the world started to rise, suddenly. Wheat had shot up by 80 per cent, maize by 90 per cent, rice by 320 per cent.

“Then, in spring 2008, prices just as mysteriously fell back to their previous level. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, calls it “a silent mass murder”, entirely due to “man-made actions.” Through the 1990s, Goldman Sachs and others lobbied hard and the regulations [controlling agricultural futures contracts] were abolished. Suddenly, these contracts were turned into “derivatives” that could be bought and sold among traders who had nothing to do with agriculture. A market in “food speculation” was born. The speculators drove the price through the roof.” www.independent.co.uk...

#5. In 2008 Monsanto and Cargill report record breaking profits.

...Today three companies, Archer Daniels Midland, Cargill, and Bunge control the world’s grain trade. Chemical giant Monsanto controls three-fifths of seed production. Unsurprisingly, in the last quarter of 2007, even as the world food crisis was breaking, Archer Daniels Midland’s profits jumped 20%, Monsanto 45%, and Cargill 60%. Recent speculation with food commodities has created another dangerous “boom.” After buying up grains and grain futures, traders are hoarding, withholding stocks and further inflating prices.... www.globalissues.org...

In 2010 : Fmr. President Clinton Apologizes for the Trade Policies that Destroyed Haitian Rice Farming – “We Made a Devil’s Bargain”

“President Bill Clinton, now the UN Special Envoy to Haiti, publicly apologized last month for forcing Haiti to drop tariffs on imported, subsidized US rice during his time in office. The policy wiped out Haitian rice farming and seriously damaged Haiti’s ability to be self-sufficient.” www.democracynow.org...

The media did use ATS with Jared Loughner, but I doubt the FBI even cares about that.

It's become routine for the police to use facebook to catch a criminal, the FBI has used chat rooms to act like little children to catch child rapists, so I'm sure the CIA has infiltrated websites to catch terrorists. But this website? Probably not.

Sure, there could be an army of disinfo agents who try to convince everyone that 9/11 was the work of muslims, but that's underestimating the stupidity of some people and their ability to do that on their own.

reply to post by Scaledown


This is the classic example of a dis-info agent: Monsanto's Dream Bill

If you look at the first comment and point to Brad Mitchell on the right side of his comment, under his "picture" you get a REAL BIG SURPRISE! when the info window comes up.

reply to post by XXXN3O


All of this, and especially my reaction to this joke before I understood it, had gotten me thinking very much about perception. I know I'm not a "disinfo agent" just as much as the people I've used the term on (regardless of the types of threads I've used it in) know that they are not a "disinfo agent" (unless they really are). So sorry Stars, sorry Aloysius. But, since I disagree with their point of view on that issue (though I may agree with their point of view on other issues) I perceive their communication through that lens and what is legitimate questioning of another's position could also be seen as fitting the tactics in the list of tactics, even though they may not have necessarily been using them intentionally (or even at all-back to perception-unless they were) In the same way that I am sure that even though I have confidence in the integrity of my communications, if someone were to deconstruct all of my communications from a certain perspective they could make the same argument. Sometimes, it's just the personality of the person doing the communicating. This is not to say that the tactics aren't used here very intentionally, but perhaps the phrase gets tossed around a little too much.

Unrelated example of how perception blinds us:
I lost my coat several months ago (or rather I couldn't find it when I was looking for it over the weekend.) For me my perception was that I left it somewhere over the weekend. When I got to work on Monday I immediately started calling the places I had been over the weekend. After 15 minutes and the 4th or 5th phone call I put down the phone, looked around and noticed that my coat was there, on the back of my chair. Because I was so convinced that I lost it, I was blind to the fact that it was right there in front of my eyes.

How can we trust our perception of others all the time when we can't even trust our internal perceptions sometimes?

Interesting line of thinking and sincere apologies to anyone I have offended by accusing them of something they may not even be guilty of (unless they are.)

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

I think it does go on in certain topics, especially when there is an election coming up as those are times when undecided voters can be swayed.

I do not really think it goes on with highly speculative conspiracies though.

Now I could subscribe to that theory. It would make much more sense in that regard, considering there is a "real" end result. Good thinking!

After reading all of the members' replies to my thread, I can say that I am pleased with the results so far. I knew I wasn't the only one who thinks this way. To address a point someone brought up earlier; I could see where it could be humorous or sarcastic or the like, to post that someone is a disinfo agent, when that is really not what's meant...It's just that it can be extremely hard to judge someone's mood and meaning simply from a post, unless the person takes the time and puts in the effort to make sure they clarify their statements. I always attempt to do this to the best of my abilities, because I believe that conflicts can be avoided quite easily this way.

For example, I could have titled this thread "Disinfo Agents Are a Scam," or I could have stated "Only gullible people believe in disinfo agents." Even if that is exactly what my opinion is, (which it isn't), that is very provocative wording, and would almost guarantee animosity. I am strictly a pacifist when it comes to dealing with others in everyday life, including the internet, so being careful with my wording is something I have done for a long time.

Anyway, I think I lost the point I was getting at. Regardless, I think I was veering from the topic at hand anyway. I just wanted to say, "keep the great replies coming guys, as I am really intrigued and curious as to everyone's outlook on the subject, and I feel like I am gaining knowledge toward the truth, as well as knowledge pertaining to how others think..." Great stuff.

Originally posted by MRuss
The Government is SO concerned about conspiracy theories that they have their own website to combat them:

www.america.gov...


I hear what you're saying and you make sense, but here's the problem:

You claim that being a disinfo agent at a place like ATS wouldn't be viable since they'd only be reaching a small percentage of the population.

But think about this: Have you seen a You Tube video go viral? How long does it take? And how many people have to see it before it is sent around the world? It only takes one person, my friend. One person at a time. The Government is all too aware about how quickly things spread---and ATS is a breeding ground for discussing conspiracy theories.

I would be surprised if they DIDN'T have some agents trolling around on websites. It would be good practice to find out the who, what, why and when of the so-called "troublemakers" on the Internet so they can be privy to what is going on out here. There is no better place than the Internet to gauge that.

Wow, I have never seen that website before. Very interesting, thank you for the link. While I understand and respect where you are coming from, I still have a problem with this. And it may just be my way of thinking is flawed, but to me it seems that it would require much more manpower, you know, much more than just a couple of agents behind a screen, and as a product of requiring so much manpower, it wouldn't be feasible for any government agency to enact a broad disinformation campaign.

I don't mean to be narrow-minded, but that is just the way I keep thinking it would be. Basically that there is definitely no way they could keep tabs on every single person, 99% of whom probably will not do anything to interest any 3 letter organization anyway.

Now, with all that said, if I am incorrect in my assumption that the job would require tons of people to be done effectively, then I could see how the operation might succeed. Then again I don't know what "mission accomplished" would refer to, to be honest.

The more I think about it, and digest you guys' and gals' opinions and views, the more I am thinking that the most effective way for this to be done would be to have 1-3 agents per popular website...All of these members would have to have earned quite a bit of respect, mainly by having a good track record with their posts and replies. Once they have that respect, then they actually do possess some actual powers of persuasion.

If the government could succeed in accomplishing that, then these "power members" could probably change quite a few minds simply by throwing their names around. For instance, I know there are around 5 or so members of this forum that I respect very, very much, because they have proven to me that they are deserving of that respect by acting in a mature fashion, presenting their arguments and opinions in a clear and concise manner, etc, etc. I have even caught myself slipping up by believing what some of these members have said is accurate, without ever validating the evidence. Everyone should make an effort to independently validate any claims made on the forums, if they really want to get to the bottom of something.

A bit off topic, but I want to continue in this direction. I am constantly seeing someone create a thread, and list text sources, while only embedding a small portion of the entire text into their thread. This is fine, but here is where the problem lies: Members will not take the time to read up on the sources that the OP posted, and then they will fill up line after line of argument, opinion, refutation, etc, and they have not addressed any of the key points that the source discusses. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has caught themselves shaking their head in disbelief after reading a post from someone who clearly did not do their homework. Sometimes I get embarrassed for them. Sorry for drifting off-topic ladies and gentlemen; I really have been attempting to keep my opinions to myself until the appropriate time arises, but I suppose I am afraid I will forget what I was going to say, so I have to get it out right then.

For those of you who took the time to post in my thread, I will try to get back to you tomorrow or the next day. Basically as soon as I can. And I really do appreciate the comments and suggestions, as they are extremely helpful. Even if they aren't, I know you probably meant well.

First I'm going to break things into "separate" posts. Some have been brilliant and well executed, but containing a Heading and subheading ( in a sense ), as well as sub-topics and spin-offs, in one post gets cluttered.

I will start with a small bit of practical information to consider. Ready? Ok.. Close your eyes and hold out your hand :|

I know someone who retired from the NSA in the late 80s. His career of decades, involved a very peculiar ( for some! ) job. His task was to read "Science Fiction" novels and make reports for the NSA. The purpose? Try to imagine.... WHY

I had many a talk with him about many things. We also talked about the purpose.

I'm sure most can figure this out. The Government/Academia/Military/Corporate etc etc... all ( and more ) deal in ( not only in ) various research and projects. Some projects etc are BLACK and the security in these would amaze many in ATS.

Look at the name of this site.. Above Top Secret.

Research and cutting edge tech etc can show up in "science fiction" and "futurist" books and novels. Alvin Toffler is an example. Any "Sensitive" information, leaks, or "ideas" being published are outright searched for and monitored by the NSA. Mind you p r firms.. corporations and various GOVERNMENTS are doing the same thing.

Monitoring the "web" or, for example, ATS forums, comes under the same department. Yes, it can be for monitoring and yes... other "departments" can have "other" purposes.. as so often mentioned here. Agitations, spinning, distracting ( psi-ops and propaganda ) etc etc... ( should be another post )

This is NOT ONLY an NSA game.. there are many in the "company work" one way or another. But The NSA is huge.. Just looking at the UK/USA ( echelon ) aspect to the NSA should give people even more background.

Just an idea, in a novel can have great affect, let alone finding black projects material actually "published" in the ( public domain ) light of day. Monitoring such things is really standard for intelligence work. How many here don't know that ALL the schools and colleges and universities are MONITORED? How else do you think corporations and government AND intelligence find their potential stars?

Wait the "schools" bit should be another post! sorry....

OK open your eyes.

reply to post by Serafine

First I'm going to break things into "separate" posts.

Interesting choice of phrase as, I'm sure you know, that's what happens in those types of projects. I always chuckle at the people that are convinced that Black projects can't exist because people can't keep big secrets. But generally, in my understanding of how these things work, there are usually only a handful of people that know the full story on something. The rest work on a highly compartmentalized basis. Heck, take the DIA for example:

Different contractors have been hired for different parts of the airport. They’ve all been fired after their job was done. This lead observers to believe that it was a strategy to make sure nobody had the full scope of the project.

vigilantcitizen.com...

And that's just one example. I can't imagine the level of compartmentalization for people with a much more specialized skill set than contractors.

reply to post by coyotepoet


Compartmentalized in deed... eyes only... need to know... circles within circles.... as well, anyone who thinks "Black Projects" can't or don't exist, have no idea. The Manhattan Project was pulled off... but another example that was pulled off was the Stealth Fighters from the 70s and through the 80s ( and kept SECRET ).... There are many more... but hey... why not let people figure it out themselves?

People often value what THEY learn on their own..... wait... another thing... show don't tell! lol that's a good one.... Try showing someone Dreamland !