I have a question for christians (not offensive)

reply to post by mbartelsm


I do let them, like i care what others think... especially someone spouting off religious babble...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

I do let them, like i care what others think... especially someone spouting off religious babble...

you let them, but at the same time you mock their beliefs as if they offended or threaten you in some way.

Originally posted by mbartelsm

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

I do let them, like i care what others think... especially someone spouting off religious babble...

you let them, but at the same time you mock their beliefs as if they offended or threaten you in some way.

Am i not welcome to my opinions?

The idea of hell is illogical and rediculous to me...

reply to post by Akragon


You are completely free to express your opinions, but you should do it in a respectful way, you are just offending people by posting things like that

reply to post by mbartelsm


I don't think there ARE 2 seperate dimensions called heaven and hell. Hell is obviously not a physical place, or we would go there BEFORE death to burn eternally. If I'm just a soul I'm not afraid of firey pits, souls feel no pain, they have no nerve endings (or anything physical, for that matter). Bring on the popcorn !
Not to say there isn't an afterlife. But in short, 'sinning' won't send you to 'hell'. That being said, I also think that if you were an evil person in life, that the afterlife WILL NOT be a good place to you. I can't really explain what I mean by this atm, 10 hours of work and counting wears out the brain... But there is a difference between being a sinner and being evil.
Show me one man who swears to have never sinned, and ill show you a liar.

I don't think there ARE 2 seperate dimensions called heaven and hell. Hell is obviously not a physical place, or we would go there BEFORE death to burn eternally. If I'm just a soul I'm not afraid of firey pits, souls feel no pain, they have no nerve endings (or anything physical, for that matter). Bring on the popcorn !

Actually, there is a theory called the "21 grams" theory which states that the human body looses 21 grams of mass instantly upon dying, weight which is attributed to souls, that would make souls physical, thus hell and heaven would be both physical places.

Not to say there isn't an afterlife. But in short, 'sinning' won't send you to 'hell'. That being said, I also think that if you were an evil person in life, that the afterlife WILL NOT be a good place to you. I can't really explain what I mean by this atm, 10 hours of work and counting wears out the brain... But there is a difference between being a sinner and being evil. Show me one man who swears to have never sinned, and ill show you a liar.

I get what you are saying, if you are bad and you like to be bad why would you want to be in a good place.
Also, I never said I believed, I'm asking this just for curiosity.

reply to post by mbartelsm


Hmm, that's an interesting theory. Never heard of it before. Do you know if it's ever been verified ? I think the idea of heaven/hell being real/physical places would turn the religion into an oxymoron. If gods dwelling is physical, it stands to reason that he is too. If god is physical, technically that makes him an ET, not a 'God', and that leads into a few other theories... If 'God' is an ET, then heaven and hell are nothing more than planets out there somewhere. Which would make the whole discussion moot anyway haha.

Originally posted by mbartelsm
reply to post by Akragon

 

You are completely free to express your opinions, but you should do it in a respectful way, you are just offending people by posting things like that

It happens *shrug*

things like what btw?

Originally posted by Gibbled
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

If god is physical, technically that makes him an ET, not a 'God', and that leads into a few other theories... If 'God' is an ET, then heaven and hell are nothing more than planets out there somewhere.

You know, you may be on to something there.That's a theory I keep hashing over from time to time, but it still doesn't trump what I originally posted. Even if the "21 gram" theory did pan out.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by mbartelsm
reply to post by Akragon

 

You are completely free to express your opinions, but you should do it in a respectful way, you are just offending people by posting things like that

It happens *shrug*

things like what btw?

You offend people, you don't even know how, and have a dark sense of humor.

I think I like you.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Like i said it happens

I didn't mean to offend anyone, but whoever i did offend didn't seem to mind or they would have posted a response...

No harm done, Carry on lads

reply to post by mbartelsm


There is no such thing as a hell where everyone who is bad is tortured forever.

Everyone goes to hell, but it's just the grave. When we die, the bible says we sleep. Everywhere in the bible that death is mentioned, it's in terms of sleep, we don't know anything when we die, just like when we are sleeping.

God loves us all, he wouldn't have created us knowing that most of us would be tortured forever in hell. That is a pagan belief, that is not stated in the bible.

Jesus came to save us all, numerous times in the bible it says so. By dying on the cross, Jesus saved past, present, and future people from all ages. You don't have to know him right now, it's a free gift, but the Bible also says that every knee will bow to Jesus, eventually. Every.

In Timothy, it even says Jesus came to save all men, especially those who believe. That just means that if you believe in Jesus, you may have a special status in the future. Kind of like, all people can go to Times Square to watch the ball drop on New Year's Eve. However, you can only get into a fancy private party there, if you know the person giving the party, and are personally invited.

If there was such a thing as burning in hell because you didn't make the cut, as some christians believe, why wasn't that the number one thing Jesus talked about in the Bible. Instead, that subject didn't even come up.

Go to a website called tentmaker.org. There are plenty of articles explaining why what most people believe is wrong. It explains that God has a plan to have all.................that's right, all people be saved and eventually be part of a wonderful future. There are different ages where different things are accomplished to bring his plan to effect.

It also says in the Bible, that God knows the heart. And that each person will personally have to account for his actions, good and bad, to God. You may be punished, but each person's punishment will be according to his deeds, and only for a set period of time, according to what is needed to change peoples hearts from evil to good.

I used to be a Catholic, and was taught the hell myth, but the Bible doesn't support that.

God is love, and God is fair. It even says in the Bible that Sodom and Gomorrah will be brought back and forgiven. They have already been judged, as stated in the Bible. Jesus told the people in Jerusalem that even Sodom and Gomorrah would have an easier time of it than them, when judgment day comes. That's because they were pagans and didn't know any better compared with the Jewish people of the day.

God holds us to a higher standard when we have more knowledge about Him. He says, to whom much is given, much is expected.

Just ask God to show you what he wants you to know, he will.

Good luck on your journey.

PS Most christians don't believe this information I have given you.

I think this may be the narrow path that Jesus talks about in the Bible. Because it certainly doesn't show love to think that God would punish people for not being born in a time or culture that allows you to know about Jesus, like we do today.

reply to post by mbartelsm


Concepts of Heaven and Hell will vary by denominations. Unfortunately, being an English speaker you will mostly be exposed to Protestants and Roman Catholicism. Everyone forgets about the Eastern Orthodox. Our view is that Heaven and Hell are two states of existence in God's presence. Those who believed in, but more importantly loved their Father will be enveloped in the flames of his love and like the burning bush shall not be consumed. The wicked and those who did not love their Father or were estranged from Him shall arise at the resurrection to everlasting shame and contempt. They are forever cut off from the Holy Spirit; the divine essence, but always in the presence of their estranged or hated Father where the flame of their shame and contempt consumes them. The Protestant concept of Hell comes from the Roman Catholic concept which is derived from the sadistic imaginations of Dark Age priests who imagine Hell as some sort of fiery torture chamber where the wicked are cut off from the presence of God. The popular concept also has a lot of roots in Dante's Inferno. Anyways, not only is it sick, but it doesn't make sense when you consider the nature of God. He is omnipresent, so how can you be cut off from his presence?

Anyways, God sent his only begotten Son to die for us, not to be a substitute for the punishment we deserve, but to destroy Satan's law of Sin and Death that kept mankind from their Father since the fall. When Ya'hshuah died sinless and divine, he was blameless under the law and could not be held by death and their power was broken. He left a New Covenant with his followers so that we might undo the damage of the Fall and return to the Father. By living as he taught us under the New Covenant we strive to achieve Theosis with God; to be a part of His divine nature again. At the judgment he shall bid those that loved him to his side and cast out the wicked who are as spiritual weeds among flowers and have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Ya'hshuah is the way, the truth, and the life and is your only escape from the ancient laws that will bind you to death. That doesn't mean he won't come to you as he did to those he loosed from Sheol (shadowy abode of the dead souls; no flames). However at the Judgment, when all are in the presence of the Father, those who were in communion with him shall go to him and those who weren't or only partially shall inherit little to nothing and shall thoroughly lament it.

reply to post by mbartelsm


I believe the answer about Good vs Evil --- God vs Satan --- Heaven or Hell is simple. The Cosmos and Earth in it are real! They didn't get here by accident, since something had to create it. If there was any evolutionary process involved, there should be plenty of scientific evidence backing it up in nature - not just a theory made up by man. If we have no God telling us what is right or wrong, then we in essence become our own gods, never having any accountability. My sin may be the next man's righteousness. Science finds complexity and order in all of creation. Everything reproduces of it's same kind (example: seed - tree - fruit - seed). It is in mans nature to seek answers and find the truth. If we weren't, then why explore the oceans and space? I believe that we are searching for something to fill the emptiness that is inside each and everyone of us from birth.

I am a Christian and associate with very few Christian churches, since God's true words (Bible) have been misinterpreted by accident or purposefully, since the teaching of the apostles of Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible, that we are saved by grace (the blood of Jesus) through faith. Prior to His arrival we were saved by grace (blood of slaughtered lamb - once a year) through faith. In the Book of Genesis, Adam and Eve were sinless in the garden, until they ate of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil (God had warned them they would surely die if they ate fruit from this tree. Once this happened, the blood line of man was forever tainted by sin and Hell would no longer be reserved for Satan and his one-third of angels that rebelled against God, but those whom had no remission of sins on this earth. Is it starting to make sense yet? God then had man create an altar to sacrifice a lamb that was spotless (no sin) and it's blood was then spillt in order for God to forgive us for the following year. No wonder throughout the ages, that Satan has used false religions to copy this with other types of animal sacrifices. Satan can not create anything, he can only use what his God has already created and in essence recreate or twist God's truth to serve his destructive purposes.

What other religion has the original man/woman who passed on the wisdom of God to their off-spring, and was eventually written in a book to share with all of mankind. What other religion had their god send their only begotten son (the second Adam - the Lamb of God) to Earth to die on a cross in order to give all believers a new sinless bloodline, and keep us from going to hell? Jesus will even rapture us very soon, so we will not have to endure the reign of the Anti-Christ during the Tribulation period. Once you receive Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior, as John 3:16 says 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life,' will receive His Holy Spirit (The Comforter) inside of you. Just repeating John 3:16 will not get you saved. The Bible shares that in order to be truly saved you need to be dead to self, in other words, seeing that all your natural ways (human logic/pride) will deceive you causing your downfall to Hell. Once that is accomplished, you will see clearly with your new spirit man residing within you. One last thing, the Bible also teaches that once saved, does not mean always saved. Never put another idol between you and God, that Idol will replace Jesus as your "Intercessor" with God (read Galations 5:19-21). To be a true Christian you need to have a personal relationship with Jesus, which will give you the conviction of the Holy Spirit when you do sin, so you will more readily repent of it and get right with God.

For anyone not believing that the name of Jesus will not be heard by everyone on this Earth, Matthew 24:14 says "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." There are many missionaries around the world spreading His name, Christian satellite broadcasts cover all parts of the globe, and Christian intercessors pray that people in remote regions will hear the calling of the Lord in their hearts.

I pray that anyone reading this that is searching for the truth, will hear God's calling upon your life and receive Jesus Christ. God Bless you!

reply to post by mbartelsm

I mean, if a person who is better than many, if not most, of us just doesn't believe, is he or she going to hell?

Christian Answer: Being "good" will simply keep you out of jail, you need the blood of Christ to keep you out of Hell.

Hmm, that's an interesting theory. Never heard of it before. Do you know if it's ever been verified ? I think the idea of heaven/hell being real/physical places would turn the religion into an oxymoron.

It is currently unethical to try to prove that theory, though it was kinda proven with 4 test subjects (all humans) in the 1900's

If gods dwelling is physical, it stands to reason that he is too. If god is physical, technically that makes him an ET, not a 'God', and that leads into a few other theories... If 'God' is an ET, then heaven and hell are nothing more than planets out there somewhere. Which would make the whole discussion moot anyway haha.

Not necessarily, matter and energy can exist in different dimensions, and they would still be physical.

Originally posted by sezsue
reply to post by mbartelsm

 

Just ask God to show you what he wants you to know, he will.

Good luck on your journey.

PS Most christians don't believe this information I have given you.

Thanks, even though I don't believe I will ask him, I have nothing to loose.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I just watched the link in you sig (why I hate religion) and there's everything I hate about "redemtion", Why would you be eternally punished just for not believing, you may have repented everything bad you have done in your life, but you just don't accept the idea of Jesus so you are going to hell.
Sorry about this, but that's just wrong.

reply to post by mbartelsm


"Religion" either causes a person to be prideful and self-righteous, or very depressed. Either they think they are better than everyone else because they have followed this laundry list of man-made rules and rituals, or they get very depressed because they realize they cannot follow all the rules and rituals perfectly.

"Redemption" is so utterly simple. God made redemption simple because we were all born into sin, we had no say-so in the condition we were born into. Salvation is as simple as asking to be forgiven via Christ's sacrifice. All one has to do is ask. How much more simple can that get???

It's the other way around. God would be evil to require humans to meet a condition that was impossible, which would be to be perfect with a laundry list of rules and rituals that God knew humans would be impossible to keep based on their fallen sinful nature.

If it's your plan to justify yourself before God's eyes instead of relying on the sacrifice His Son made on your behalf, then that's a monumental slap in His and His Son's face. I wouldn't recommend it.

"Redemption" is so utterly simple. God made redemption simple because we were all born into sin, we had no say-so in the condition we were born into. Salvation is as simple as asking to be forgiven via Christ's sacrifice. All one has to do is ask. How much more simple can that get???

Ok, I asked, does that means I'm saved? probably not, because you forgot to add that I must have faith in something that I just can't have faith in, it doesn't even matter if I want to believe, it will not happen. I know how stupid it sound, but I'm not atheist/agnostic because of choice, I'm one because I'm one, its part of my nature, its part of me.