Have you seen The Tillman Story?

In June 2002, pro football player Pat Tillman turned down a multi-million dollar NFL contract to become an Army Ranger. After serving several tours in Afghanistan, he was killed on April 22, 2004 in what was first described as a heroic selfless action in defense oft a Taliban attack.

Later it was admitted that Tillman was actually killed by "friendly fire" and there were no Taliban or other insurgents in the area. The Tillman Story is an extraordinary documentary about Pat Tillman's life and his family's search for the truth amidst a massive military cover-up that led straight to the highest levels of Washington.

I have two questions:

1) What do you think really happened to Pat Tillman?

2) What do you think the average person concluded after watching The Tillman Story? In other words, do you think this documentary supported your personal beliefs about Pat Tillman's death?

I haven't seen it yet, but am quite interested to see it. If you can find it, Bill Maher had Pat Tillman's brother on "Real Time" It's worth watching. I think it was around 6 months ago, not sure exactly when though.

This is a letter his brother wrote about him in (I think) 2004...

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reply to post by alaskan

Thanks for including that outstanding letter, Alaskan.

I'm guessing this was Kevin Tillman, who's never been shy about speaking his mind.

Tillman had convicting evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, and tptb had to take care of him.

Did everybody killed by friendly fire know about the big 9-11 secret files too?

Tillman was a NFL player who garnered big attention when he joined up and when he was killed. 911 had nothing to do with it.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans

Except 9/11 was cynically used by the Bush administration to highlight Tillman's death even though Pat was adamantly opposed to what he called an "illegal war".

Tillman was so suspicious about how his death would be used that he smuggled a copy of an Army document to his wife stating that if he was killed, he didn't want a military funeral or Arlington Cemetery burial.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

 

Except 9/11 was cynically used by the Bush administration to highlight Tillman's death even though Pat was adamantly opposed to what he called an "illegal war".

Tillman was so suspicious about how his death would be used that he smuggled a copy of an Army document to his wife stating that if he was killed, he didn't want a military funeral or Arlington Cemetery burial.

How does that translate into Tillman had secret info about how 911 was an inside job? LOL. You kooks use the death of an American Hero to try and spread your idiotic cause. Pathetic.

I remember Reading that their were three snipers in the Area.. If you want to know what I think happened is that Tillman was going to come home and be against bush and what he thought were two bad wars. bush couldn't have that it would have too big a blow to his ego. I think that they had the snipers nail him and let the Rangers take the Fall. my best friend was Serial 2 which was who they say killed him.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

How does that translate into Tillman had secret info about how 911 was an inside job?

I never said he did, but it wouldn't surprise me given Tillman's intelligence and views on what he called "illegal wars" and "imperial folly".

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
You kooks use the death of an American Hero to try and spread your idiotic cause. Pathetic.

The only "kooks" that used Tillman's death to spread their idiotic cause (endless war) were the mass-murdering Bush neocons.

reply to post by Reaper2137

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Did you see The Tillman Story? Do you think it supported your conclusion?

I'd really like to know why there wasn't any mention of the medical examiner's report that said there was a two-inch pattern of three .223 shots to Tillman's head, fired from "less than 10 feet".

[edit] You say your best friend was in Serial 2? Wow, I wish we could hear his version of events.

Pat Tillman was the Army's Golden Boy until they figured out that he was a free spirit, a critical thinker, not so easily brainwashed like the others. From what I understand, he had a meeting arranged with Noam Chomsky to discuss an anti-war organization Tillman wanted to form. The Army realized that he was a huge liability and in my opinion, they took him out.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Did you see The Tillman Story? Do you think it supported your conclusion?

I'd really like to know why there wasn't any mention of the covered-up medical examiner's report that said there was a two-inch pattern of three .223 shots to Tillman's head, fired from "less than 10 feet".

[edit] You say your best friend was in Serial 2? Wow, I wish we could hear his version of events.

edit on 3/9/2011 by GoldenFleece because: (no reason given)

yeah he was the section leader of serial 2 one of the few who didn't get a double D from this mess. I have not seen the movie.
from what he told me that serial 2 was no were near were tillmen died and serial 3 or 4 was closer. after they started getting fired on from the side of the valley tillmens group went in to clear it out. some were between them thinking it was and enemy combatant turned out to be them shooting at each other.

I was an M.P for about six years. So What I think happened is that the Three snipers they talk about which were not attached to the Rangers opened fire on the group and drew tillmens group to the them shot tillmen and bugged out letting the Rangers take the fall.

the Rangers destroyed his gear in a fire weather they were ordered to do that or not. I have no ideal I would think that they heard that they were going to be taking the fall and tryed to do damage control. Also missing and never recovered is tillmens dairy can't remember if they burned it as well or just left it in the were he died I don't know.

reply to post by Erica1631

You're correct -- Tillman was going to meet with Chomsky when his tour was over. There was an interesting comment on the DVD director's track: "Tillman was worth more dead than alive".

reply to post by Reaper2137

That's one of the most interesting posts I've ever read, especially since no member of Serial 2 has ever publicly spoken about what happened that day. I think you nailed it.

This is another piece of the puzzle that The Tillman Story should've included. Omitting any mention of snipers in the area and not mentioning the autopsy/medical examiner's report appears to be as big of a cover-up as the documentary is alleging.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Erica1631

 

You're correct -- Tillman was going to meet with Chomsky when his tour was over. There was an interesting comment on the DVD director's track: "Tillman was worth more dead than alive".

reply to post by Reaper2137

 

That's one of the most interesting posts I've ever read, especially since no member of Serial 2 has ever publicly spoken about what happened that day. I think you nailed it.

This is another piece of the puzzle that The Tillman Story should've included. Omitting any mention of snipers in the area and not mentioning the autopsy/medical examiner's report appears to be as big of a cover-up as the documentary is alleging.

I was talking about this the other day. but whats funny is the O.S has a line or two talking about the Snipers the Rangers either knew or didn't know they were their can't really remember I can go back to the site and provide a link from Army C.I.D on the Report

Was he killed because he was going to be a media liability? I don't know. But at the minimum, the coverup of friendly fire and the promotion of his image as a war hero is definitely a conspiracy.

Of course, when you choose to have a war, you have to promote it, and hero stories, even manufactured ones, add legitimacy. Jessica Lynch's was another manufactured hero story.

Originally posted by Erica1631
Pat Tillman was the Army's Golden Boy until they figured out that he was a free spirit, a critical thinker, not so easily brainwashed like the others. From what I understand, he had a meeting arranged with Noam Chomsky to discuss an anti-war organization Tillman wanted to form. The Army realized that he was a huge liability and in my opinion, they took him out.

There is nothing wrong with stating this. You gave enough information to support your idea and you also stated that it was "your opinion".

However, saying: 'Tillman new 911 was inside job so TPTB cleaned up the mess' or anything along those lines is nonsense.

If anyone likes this idea stated, I suggest looking into it more to see if it's plausible. To the others, let's try not to state speculation as facts. It's bad enough the guy died for his country, but I don't think he wants it to be for an idiotic cause, on either side of the spectrum.

One of my first threads when I started here in '04 was on Tillman. Drew some of the same type of attacks this thread is getting. I hadn't heard anything about snipers in the area or .223 rounds tightly grouped in his head. My understanding was he came under fire from Serial 2, took a couple hits, popped smoke and stood up behind some boulders waving his arms and screaming "I'm Pat Tillman!" The firing stopped and he broke cover only to have a gunner in a humvee open up on him with a .50 cal., blowing his head off. There's some pretty good stuff in my old thread if anyone wants to check it out here.

reply to post by Icarus Rising

Nice thread, Icarus.

You took a lot more abuse than this thread, probably because people have gotten used to government lies and cover-ups. The Jessica Lynch fabrication was also exposed in the Tillman documentary.

I'm still fascinated by the poster and former MP who claims his best friend was a member of Serial 2 and that Serial 2 was essentially framed for Tillman's murder. I had heard the rumors of snipers in the area, so I think he's on to something.

A moderator edited my post because I didn't link to an external source. I don't have an external source, the letter was on my hard drive, and I think you're being stupid by asking me to break it up into small pieces.

It's a letter by Pat's brother, Kevin, and it can be found on any number of websites.
There's no reason to break it into little pieces and dilute the meaning. Maybe it's my fault for using external content tags instead of quotes, but I think you're overstepping your bounds.

It is Pat's birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice until we get out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can't be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few 'bad apples' in the military. I couldn't edit my post if I wanted to because "I've exceeded the four hour limit."

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that 'somehow' was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday.