Revolts in Mideast - Rise of the last Caliphate ? Step towards Antichrist?

Originally posted by hangedman13
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

You assume that the typical Muslim in the M.E. is given the chance to actually study the Koran. Like in most religions it is easier to control ignorant masses.

I don't agree.
My Iraqi friend asked me to read the Koran because he cared about me like a brother. He is very intelligent and literate as were all of the Iraqis I worked with. Also, Jordanians, Saudis, Kuwaitis a few Egyptians and some Moslems I met in Israel.

Most of them pray 5 times a day, don't drink, follow their religion closely and are very gracious and kind people even to non Moslems and westerners. In my personal experience which includes 5 years in the middle east, they read the Koran and follow it's teachings.

Glenn Beck has mentioned the Caliphate several times in the last several days, in terms of his fears that the revolution in Egypt is part of a process to restore it (Muslim Brotherhood).

theweek.com...

what's interesting is that if you google news 'caliphate' there is page after page of hysterical Beck-is-an-idiot 'news articles'.

other than knee-jerk liberalism I don't understand the hostility. there has always been a caliphate movement; the Muslim Brotherhood is on record as promoting same; there is no question that regional destabilization could result in a call for pan-Islamization.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by badgerprints

 

True muslims would never accept a 'Caliphate'. The peaceful religion of Islam had NEVER intended clerics as intermediaries between Allah and man. It was supposed to be a direct and personal journey of free will discovery by His children, to know Him and His path for mankind.

I just got back to this and apologize for the failure to reply to this post. Your insults notwithstanding, I am encouraged by what you wrote here.

Religion is a personal journey.

However, humans have never been able to leave major religions to themselves and power corrupts even the best Ideals.

When I wrote this thread 3 weeks ago it was in the same vein as it is now. One of speculation.
I don't have cable and the talking heads just get my blood pressure up. I had not decided to do an "Islam" thread based on what some people were saying. As one poster stated Beck had been talking about a Caliphate recently but I hadn't been aware. I don't listen to Fox, NPR or anyone in between most of the time.

I did read today that there has been a public voice on a new Caliphate in the Mideast from a few places and given your statement I'd like to ask a question.

How many "true Muslims" are there? Maybe as many as "true Christians."
Will it be false or mislead muslims that push for a new Caliphate?
I'm afraid that the human element will continue to follow history despite our best efforts and a new one will arise despite your feelings on the matter.

I remember asking one of my guards in Iraq what the black flag flying over his bunker meant. He explained to me that it was a display that was meant to show support for a return to the old ways and rise of a new Caliphate. He even explained some of the history to me and what it might symbolize in the future. That got me to reading a book on the subject. After that I noticed that these flags were everywhere.

So if you will forgive my ignorance of what a true Muslim will or won't support I'll keep learning where I can. After all, I first learned of the black flag and it's implications from a grizzled old one eyed Iraqi Veteran who guarded me while others wanted me dead. I'll take it on a little faith that somewhere other people might agree with him.

I firmly believe and am terrified at the same time that this is by far the best opportunity for a Khalifah of either sect (the Mahdi for Shiites) to emerge ,who I suspect will be the Biblical Anti-Christ, and return the Islamic Caliphate to the Middle East, fulfilling end times prophecy in the book of Revelations. I am NOT anti-Muslim but it has been proven time and time again that Islam becomes corrupt as more political or military power is derived from it. My argument consists of three points, which are:

1.) An Atmosphere of Anger

If you take a look at the revolutions and riots taking place right now in the Middle East you can see that the people want a different style of government and are extremely angry with their leaders, both Israel, the U.S., and their own way of life which largely is far behind more modern countries.

Even though they all have different ethnicities and practice under different sects they seem to be inspiring each other one after the other to overthrow dictatorships and in some cases what is seen by the Muslim community as secular leaders under America's thumb. Iran's leadership is praising it as the Mahdi's will being exercised on earth, and the Ayatollah Khamenei even claims to have met the Hidden Imam and held some kind of discussion with him, who's mission is to unite the Muslim world into a Caliphate once more and destroy Israel and all nonbelievers by the way.

2.) The Creation of the Caliphate's Future Warriors of Islam

There are hundreds if not thousands of Islamic militaristic groups in the Middle East and the world who could be united by someone strong or very religious. They are well funded, organized, have a common enemy, and can influence or even control governments in their vicinity. We see Hamas' headquarters in Syria and controlling Gaza, Hezbollah ruling Lebanon, an Islamic state in Iran which is the leading funder for terrorists in the world and is desperately trying to acquire nuclear weapons if it doesn't have them already, the Muslim Brotherhood preparing itself to take over Egypt's population of 80 Million and announcing that they are making a political party, the best organized group there (make no mistake they will try to take over Egypt, this revolution is their best chance of it) theblaze.com on Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda who has plagued the U.S. since the 80's and has many branches in other countries, the Taliban gaining strength in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Iraq who's government could disappear in the blink of an eye should violence surge again there, which could easily bring an Iranian style revolution.

Their government is quote "the world's fifth most politically unstable country." according to the Failed States Index, in 2008 beating Pakistan, North Korea, and even Afghanistan which had less U.S. troops and focus at the time! Iraqi politicians have been under significant threat by the various factions that have promoted violence as a political weapon. "The ongoing violence in Iraq has been incited by an amalgam of religious extremists that believe an Islamic Caliphate should rule, old sectarian regime members that had ruled under Saddam that want back the power they had, and Iraqi nationalists that are fighting the U.S. military presence. Wikipedia link, lots of sources
www.fundforpeace.org...

3.) The 24th International Islamic Unity Conference

"The word caliphate has been heard on American television and radio more in the past two weeks than the past two decades. One imagines that it will be heard in various forms at the upcoming 24th International Islamic Unity Conference, held at the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting International Conference Center in Tehran February 19 – 21. Pre-event press claims that 500 or so Iranian Shia and Sunni scholars will be speaking and they have also invited an additional 250 from 57 countries."t heblaze.com on the Conference

I bet money that the Ayatollah will reveal to them that he is either in contact with the Hidden Imam, whether they believe it is irrelevant, or that he now has nuclear capabilities and now is the time to join together into a united Islamic State (Caliphate) and attack Israel. If Iran has nuclear capabilities right now I would also hazard a guess that it will "encourage" the other Islamic countries to accept assimilation or be in danger of a nuclear strike. They've already sent two naval ships through the Suez canal for who knows what, provoking Israel, and agitating the the already boiling civil unrest there.

Whatever they are talking about, this is a huge step in the Muslim community at organization across sects and could lead to any number of outcomes.

I hope you all consider my point of view and if you read all of this, thank you and sorry its so long, just a lot of information to cover.

reply to post by badgerprints


No, ofence, because this sounds very interesting, but you have not provided nay links in your op. I would be interested to know where this info is coming from.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


The general gist is from a book "The Islamic Antichrist: J. Richardson" which I read some 6-7 months ago (along with a half dozen other books over the past few years that support the Idea of a European as the Antichrist and do not even mention Islam. I don't have that book as it was borrowed but if I remember correctly it did have a good index of sources.

Like said in an earlier post. This was based on my thoughts since then and a few things I've read here and there.
I'm not proposing that the point of view from that particular author is correct or that any of this is based on facts. It's speculation. The main interest it holds for me is that the end times beliefs of Christianity and Islam both parallel and mesh pretty well. They mainly differ on which side is good and which is evil.

As I stated in an earlier post, it was the question about the black flags I saw in Iraq that roused my curiosity. The recent middle east uprisings sparked the thread idea which was about 3 weeks or so ago and wasn't intended to tie in with the recent media hype over it. I hadn't been aware of that at the time I started the thread or I probably wouldn't have even bothered.

I can honestly say I searched for other threads on this subject and found none here but about 10 minutes afterward someone popped up with the same idea in a new thread so I don't blame others who thought I was just jumping on a bandwagon.

Too bad.

The specific point of the subject that I wanted to discuss is lost in the rhetoric.

Most of it is Front page news and common knowledge (Terrorist groups and instability, unrest). theblaze.com, Associated Press, Reuters, Fox.com, CNN.com. The stuff about the Twelfth Imam or Hidden Imam is in the Hadith which is a widely studied text in Islam,

Twelver Shia Muslims believe that the Mahdi is Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Twelfth Imam, who was born in 869 CE and was hidden by God at the age of five (874 CE). He is still alive but has been in occultation, "awaiting the time that God has decreed for his return". This is what the Iranian leaders Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah Khamanei believe. CBN on YouTube
BBC on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Although Sunnis generally accept the Mahdi doctrine, a minority reject it. The Mahdi is mentioned in the Sahih Muslim collection of ahadith. - Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 41:6961

In Shia Islam, the belief in the Mahdi is a "powerful and central religious idea" and closely related to the Twelfth Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, whose return from occultation is deemed analogous with the coming of the Mahdi. - mahdī." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2008

Ja'far al-Sadiq, the Sixth Imam, made the following prophecies:
Abu Bashir says: When I asked Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, "O son of the Messenger of God! Who is the Mahdi (qa'im) of your clan (ahl al-bayt)?", he replied: "The Mahdi will conquer the world; at that time the world will be illuminated by the light of God, and everywere in which those other than God are worshipped will become places where God is worshiped; and even if the polytheists do not wish it, the only faith on that day will be the religion of God. - Bihar al-Anwar: 51: 146,

The Twelfth Imam will return as the Mahdi with "a company of his chosen ones," and his enemies will be led by the one-eyed Antichrist and the Sufyani. The two armies will fight "one final apocalyptic battle" where the Mahdi and his forces will prevail over evil. After the Mahdi has ruled Earth for a number of years, Isa will return. - Momen 1985: 166

Umm Salam said:
His [the Mahdi's] aim is to establish a moral system from which all superstitious faiths have been eliminated. In the same way that students enter Islam, so unbelievers will come to believe. - Vizier Mustafa, Emergence of Islam, p. 171

Hope this helps

also this CBN report on the Iranian President

this too lol
NYTimes on Exiled Egyptian Imam


This is about Iranian Terrorist Funding from NYTimes
www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by badgerprints


I think seekeroftruth is giving way to much credit to the Muslims in the ME. They are pissed off and have been for a while now. They want someone or something to fix the situation. A vastly overwhelming majority wishes Israel to be vaporized and this Gallup Poll on Radical Islam says "7% of respondents think that the 9/11 attacks were "completely" justified and view the United States unfavorably." Muslim world consists of between 1.2 and 1.6 billion people, or roughly one-fifth of mankind. 7% of that is between 84,000,000 to 112,000,000 radicals!!! Thats real man. The rest of the Muslim World might despise that 7% but they're real and in power in many places in the ME.
Gallup Poll on Radicalism

Was looking for this thread.
I've been wondering about the same thing.

It's also clear in the Nostradamus prophecy that the third anti-Christ will come from Arabia/Islam.

" Out of the country of Greater Arabia Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed,
He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban.
He will be the terror of mankind.
Never more horror. "


Either way. There is the risk that some radical group will take advantage of all unrest in the middle east and try and mislead them. Seems to be going according to plan so far. That's if there is a certain group behind these uprisings. I'm almost sure there is. U can't tell me they just decided to head to the streets. It must have been organized.

Originally posted by works4dhs
Glenn Beck has mentioned the Caliphate several times in the last several days, in terms of his fears that the revolution in Egypt is part of a process to restore it (Muslim Brotherhood).

theweek.com...

what's interesting is that if you google news 'caliphate' there is page after page of hysterical Beck-is-an-idiot 'news articles'.

other than knee-jerk liberalism I don't understand the hostility. there has always been a caliphate movement; the Muslim Brotherhood is on record as promoting same; there is no question that regional destabilization could result in a call for pan-Islamization.

Interesting points, in fact Ahmadinejad himself believes in the 12th Imam, the so called Hidden Imam, and believes he will return. Sounds like the Islamic version of 2nd Coming of Christ to me, only they believe they can kill for it.

It's been about 4 and a half years since I started this thread.

Unfortunately, looking at recent events, the idea of a new caliphate is not so much conjecture.
The black flags are flying and they are beheading unbelievers.
The east roman empire (Islam under the Ottoman empire)was the 7th to fall and looks to be the eighth to rise.

a reply to: badgerprints

And most of the nations they are active in are also nations that have historically had a beef with Israel too. It starts to set the stage for other events.

originally posted by: badgerprints
It's been about 4 and a half years since I started this thread.

Unfortunately, looking at recent events, the idea of a new caliphate is not so much conjecture.
The black flags are flying and they are beheading unbelievers.
The east roman empire (Islam under the Ottoman empire)was the 7th to fall and looks to be the eighth to rise.

They are also surrounded and losing. So I would not count on them.

I just saw where the Turks are now attacking both ISIL, and the PKK forces of the Kurds. This may force the Kurds into some kind of truce or cease fire, with the ISIL.