To all the people who want to ban guns.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
I don't like the idea of having an armed society. I've grown up in a place where you can't own a gun.

According to this report you are likelier to be killed if you are armed.

www.newscientist.com...

Not for nothing but look at who did the study and look at their backround history

NUFF said.

Liberal fodder

reply to post by blupblup


It's not like that, man. Our country is completely centered around the fact that you CANNOT trust those in power. As a direct result of this, we feel the need to protect ourselves not only from common criminals but, possibly the government. If it ever came to that, any true American would fight against his government for the good of the people. As it should be. Your people think differently, nothing wrong with that, but, there also isn't anything wrong with wanting to keep your own safety in your own hands instead of the hands of the police.

If you had a gun in your nightstand and an armed man entered your home illegally and is a threat to your family, are you going to wait around for the police or shoot that bastard and send him to hell? If you chose choice A, your either not American or not awake.

reply to post by Rocky Black




Well it is a fact that you're more likely to be killed or injured if you own a gun than if you don't, about four times more likely I think.

But when it comes to gun debates, we don't let facts ruin a good argument right?


*sigh*


Oh well.....

Can see how this will go.

reply to post by knylon90


Maybe your not liberal after all my friend.

I hate the names liberal, democrat, republican.

I'm an AMERICAN period.

I was born from my mother with the help from my father and I'm a human being. I breath air and eat and sleep as you my friend. I am commited to my fellow man or woman who is need in time of crisis as I would give my life to save you. Balck, white, gang banger or not. We are all her living on this planet together. We all are one family just off shoots of our ancesters.

Political status is their label they use to see who is getting votes in the polls.

I am you/your are me.
RB out.

reply to post by blupblup


Yes. If you own a gun you are more likely to be harmed than if not. Correct. And?

If you eat your steak rare you are more likely to get sick than if you eat it well done. If you own a car you are more likely to get in a wreck than if you did not. If you live in a two-story house you are more likely to die a falling death than if you had just lived outside in a tent. If you liv near trees you are more likely to die from a falling tree branch than if you had lived in the desert. If you eat candy you are more likely to get diabetes than if you do not.

I can go on with this for days but, that'd be a bit redundant and stupid, quite honestly. Why should something be banned because it simply has the potential to be harmful? If you are too dumb to handle a gun properly than you deserve any injuries you get as a result. Is that honestly such a bad way of thinking?

Hold the person accountable, not the people.

Originally posted by knylon90
reply to post by blupblup

 

It's not like that, man. Our country is completely centered around the fact that you CANNOT trust those in power. As a direct result of this, we feel the need to protect ourselves not only from common criminals but, possibly the government.

I know and I said as much in my previous post.
And this is the difference, the paranoia and reliance on guns as your salvation.... the national psyche in America is the issue.

Not necessarily the guns.

If it ever came to that, any true American would fight against his government for the good of the people. As it should be.

Yes.... I'm sure the government and NWO are planning raids on every home in America as we speak, good job you have all those guns right?

Your people think differently

Differently, sanely..... yeah, I guess.

If you had a gun in your nightstand and an armed man entered your home illegally and is a threat to your family, are you going to wait around for the police or shoot that bastard and send him to hell? If you chose choice A, your either not American or not awake.

Armed (gun) burglary is extremely rare in the UK.
But yes, you're right.... this is one instance where people could justify a firearm.

We had a case over here of a farmer who was burgled by two guys and he shot and killed one.... he went to prison and the country was split on this.

My view was.... they broke onto his land.... he was like 60+ and had every right to defend himself, even if it ended in the loss of life for the criminal.... you make the choice to rob someone, you pay the consequences.

I have my own protection at home.... not a gun, we don't really do or need guns here, but believe me...I'm ok if someone breaks in.

reply to post by knylon90




Four times more likely....

We're not talking food poisoning or branches damaging property.

We're talking death.


People rely too heavily on a gun.... It's not the answer.


As someone said when this shooting happened with Jared..... AZ is "gun-state" and why didn't anyone pull out their gun and shoot him the minute he started firing?

Guns make everything safe and great right?


Point is they don't.... and 2-3 UNARMED people tackled him.

These things happen.... the fact is this guy bought his gun legally... and then went and shot people.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


You guys also smoke alot of ganga up there and studies have shown that people who smoke the ganga our more than likely no to be violent like people who smoke crack and boot heroin.

Canada,

Actually I believe I am part french canadian. I'm glad my grandparents actually my great grandfather came here and immigrated here legally and he met my grandmother and they got married here.

Canada has been in a downward spiral as of the last 10 years. Though i have been there many times and I have to agree some places are beautiful. Your country is pretty socialist.

May I ask what your taxation rate there in CANADA is.

reply to post by Rocky Black


If people were armed, Jared Loughner wouldn't have shot a second person. He would have immediately been stopped.

reply to post by lostviking


If people were merely "armed" then the body count might have been higher. One of the big issues which fuels this controversy is that we are free to purchase and possess guns without the benefit of even the most basic instruction in their use..

Personally I think that a firearms safety course should be mandatory for gun ownership.

Assuming that the people around had been armed and skilled and knowledgeable in gun use, then, yes I agree wholeheartedly.

~Heff

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by knylon90
reply to post by blupblup

 

It's not like that, man. Our country is completely centered around the fact that you CANNOT trust those in power. As a direct result of this, we feel the need to protect ourselves not only from common criminals but, possibly the government.

I know and I said as much in my previous post.
And this is the difference, the paranoia and reliance on guns as your salvation.... the national psyche in America is the issue.

Not necessarily the guns.

If it ever came to that, any true American would fight against his government for the good of the people. As it should be.

Yes.... I'm sure the government and NWO are planning raids on every home in America as we speak, good job you have all those guns right?

Your people think differently

Differently, sanely..... yeah, I guess.

If you had a gun in your nightstand and an armed man entered your home illegally and is a threat to your family, are you going to wait around for the police or shoot that bastard and send him to hell? If you chose choice A, your either not American or not awake.

Armed (gun) burglary is extremely rare in the UK.
But yes, you're right.... this is one instance where people could justify a firearm.

We had a case over here of a farmer who was burgled by two guys and he shot and killed one.... he went to prison and the country was split on this.

My view was.... they broke onto his land.... he was like 60+ and had every right to defend himself, even if it ended in the loss of life for the criminal.... you make the choice to rob someone, you pay the consequences.

I have my own protection at home.... not a gun, we don't really do or need guns here, but believe me...I'm ok if someone breaks in.

From My constitution

Personal Security (Life):
(1) Not to be killed.

(2) Not to be injured or abused.

Personal Liberty:
(3) To move freely.

(4) To assemble peaceably.

(5) To keep and bear arms.[18] LOVE THIS ONE

(6) To assemble in an independent well-disciplined[13] militia.

(7) To communicate with the world.

(8) To express or publish one's opinions or those of others.

(9) To practice one's religion.

(10) To be secure in one's person, house, papers, vehicle[14], and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Well if someone enters your property this would not be secure would it.


(11) To enjoy privacy in all matters in which the rights of others are not violated.[7]

Private Property:
(12) To acquire, have and use the means necessary to exercise the above natural rights and pursue happiness, specifically including:

(1) A private residence, from which others may be excluded. GTF off my propety.

(2) Tools needed for one's livelihood.

(3) Personal property, which others may be denied the use of.

(4) Arms suitable for personal and community defense. Personal defense. THAT RIGHT PERSONAL DEFENSE.

My personal defense as I lay in bad at night sleeping and my children are sleeping in the other room.

If Mr Black didn't scare you off as you try to break and enter my home and you enter illeagal without my permission. If Mr Black doesn't kill you as he would and should he will most likly be locked on to you tearing you apart. An I will be on my way do with Loui to finish you off.

And if you come with a few of you well Mr Black has backup buddy. Smith and Wesson they will come to his aid.

reply to post by blupblup


Well, I can't refute your opinion on my nation's psyche, after all you are entitled to your opinion. However, I can pick everything else apart.

Yes.... I'm sure the government and NWO are planning raids on every home in America as we speak, good job you have all those guns right?

I've never written anything that gives the impression that I believe in a NWO or that the government is conspiring against me. They have bigger fish to fry at the moment, I'm not an tin-foil-topped idiot. I'm a person who believes in personal, inalienable rights. Rights which include defending yourself from those in powwer, IF it were ever necessary. I'm not saying it ever will be but, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to be prepared if it makes me feel safer.

Differently, sanely..... yeah, I guess.

No need to offend me. How is it insane to believe that I, as a human being, should not be subject to any form of oppression, regardless of whom it comes from? Just because there are some stupid people who'd like to shoot up a mall does not make me or my countrymen insane. Are you going to tell me there are no criminals in Canada? Need I remind you how much illegal drugs are imported from your country into mine? I don't exactly appreciate that, to be honest. Would it be right of me to view the drug problem in the US as expressly your fault because you are from Canada and a good portion of the drugs in America come from there? Of course not. Excuse my language, but that is f*cking retarded.

Armed (gun) burglary is extremely rare in the UK.
But yes, you're right.... this is one instance where people could justify a firearm.

We had a case over here of a farmer who was burgled by two guys and he shot and killed one.... he went to prison and the country was split on this.

My view was.... they broke onto his land.... he was like 60+ and had every right to defend himself, even if it ended in the loss of life for the criminal.... you make the choice to rob someone, you pay the consequences.

I have my own protection at home.... not a gun, we don't really do or need guns here, but believe me...I'm ok if someone breaks in.

Obviously, I agree with you on this one. As far as I'm concerned, everyone everywhere has the right to defend themselves with any nearby object. Be it a gun, a rock, a car, whatever. You have the right to defend your life. Anyone who would have you believe otherwise is not the type of person I'd want in control.

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by knylon90

 

Four times more likely....

We're not talking food poisoning or branches damaging property.

We're talking death.


People rely too heavily on a gun.... It's not the answer.


As someone said when this shooting happened with Jared..... AZ is "gun-state" and why didn't anyone pull out their gun and shoot him the minute he started firing?

Guns make everything safe and great right?


Point is they don't.... and 2-3 UNARMED people tackled him.

These things happen.... the fact is this guy bought his gun legally... and then went and shot people.

If you are too afraid of guns, then don't use them but, don't tell me I'm insane for wish to have one. No, guns do not make everything safe or great. In all truthfulness, the world would be much better off with out them. However, it's completely naive to think just because guns are illegal or even harder to obtain that the wrong people wouldn't still have guns. Nothing would change except innocent people would be getting wrongly charged with illegal firearms charges.

I applaud anyone who uses nonlethal force when available. A human life is more valuable than anything, even the life of Mr, Loughner, a murderer and clearly quite a crazy person.

I apologize for my delay in replying. My damn power went out in the middle of typing that monstrous wall of text.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I agree to disagre.

That is our right.

I have had my liscense to carry since I was a teenager. Whe I was young I went and got my FID card and learned about gun safety and danges. When I was older I got a liscense to carry concealed.

I carry 365 7days and have never been in a situation where I had to draw.

But dont you worry when the psycho flipps out an your at the mall drinking your coolaid I will defend you. As we know you will be the victim.

We I was a little kid I will never forget what I saw when we were walking home from school. Myslf and my 2 friends were walking to his house and all these cruisers were out front and news crews were there were like what is going on. The fron door open and his mother was laying right there and we could see her and there was blood all over the wall and as the door opened it hit her foot as she was laying right behind the ydoor dead.
We say her foot move and we were like OMG and out friende was freaking out and the cops were like trying to calm him down.

We still to this day don't know who killed her. My friend has suffered his whole life with this tradgedy.

Her name is Marlyn Moses and she was murdered in Lawrence Ma.

I also had a good friend I used to hang out with whos broth was abductid and murdered and they never found his body.
I think after 20 something years they finally had some guy admit to doing it. His firends lolder brothers name was Angelo Puglisi.

I will never be a victim.\

At least I hope.

I'm prepared and ready.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

You can crow about your guns in America...but compare the murder rates for Toronto and Detroit...about 10 times higher per capita in Detroit.

You may have a right to your firearms (and we have legal guns, too, though more controlled), but you'd better add your national psyche to the equation.

Alright, lets look at what the ELITE controlled lawmakers did to the USA "psyche" and what the result was. The key decade is the 1970's


During this decade, the bleeding heart liberals, the favorite pawns of the elite, were used to get laws passed so the Mentally Ill were taken out of hospitals and turned loose on the street. They were SUPPOSED to be treated at "half-way" houses but the funding got cut. Now more recent laws mean nothing can be done if they refuse to take their medication.

End result is a sharp increase in the number of street people and a sharp increase in prison inmates. According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. Incarceration Rate GRAPH

In the same time frame (the seventies) the bleeding heart liberals gave us desegregation busing. Instead of increasing the education of blacks, it decreased the education nationwide and allowed young drug pushers to enter fresh new territory.

End result is a sharp increase in the number of drug related arrests.

No I am not blowing smoke.
The drug related deaths from 1981 to 1989 GRAPH shows the sharp increase in coc aine related deaths.

This graph is a REAL EYE OPENER Homicide Rates in the United States 1900-1990

Distribution (Percentage) of All Drug Arrests Since 1941 by Decade

Of course theses two bleeding heart causes will NEVER be shown as the real cause of the death of Congressman Gifford. OH no it has to be GUNS!

If you want to go even further look at what the Committee for Economic Development did to American Society in the same time frame.

... A report published in 1962 entitled An Adaptive Program for Agriculture[3] is even more blunt in its objectives, leading Time Magazine to remark that CED had a plan for fixing the identified problem: "The essential fact to be faced, argues CED, is that with present high levels farm productivity, more labor is involved in agriculture production that the market demands" in short, there are too may farmers. To solve that problem, CED offers a program with three main prongs.[4]

Some of the report’s authors would go on to work in government to implement CED’s policy recommendations. Over the next five years, the political and economic establishment ensured the reduction of "excess human resources engaged in agriculture" by two million...

Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn’t help but congratulate itself in another agricultural report called A New US Farm Policy for Changing World Food Needs for the efficiency of the tactics they employed to drive farmers from their land.[5]

The human cost of CED’s plans were exacting and enormous.

CED’s plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies. They also resulted in a massive migration to larger cities. The loss of a farm also means the loss of identity, and many farmers’ lives ended in suicide.... farmwars.info...

So yes there is a problem with the American psyche, and the problems are the result of deliberate plans by the Elite. A second phase is even now being implemented, again with the help of the liberal dupes. It is a plan KNOWN to wipe out nations. The plan is substituting American culture with "multi-culturalism".

reply to post by Rocky Black

You are preaching to the choir, Rocky, but you are right on with that. I live in a place where murders are somewhat common, one every month or so. Most are over a drug deal, or a money deal. Most of the guns are deemed to be stolen, or obtained in an illegal manner. At least is someone comes to my door, and wants to hurt me or my family, I can gun him down. I like it like that. Here in Ohio we have a thing called
Castle Defense.

An exception to the retreat rule allowing the use of deadly force by a person who is protecting his or her home and its inhabitants from attack, esp. from a trespasser who intends to commit a felony or inflict serious bodily harm. The law in Ohio currently places the burden on the home occupant to prove they were defending themselves from death or serious injury. Under Ohio Senate Bill 184, which will go into effect in 90 days, it will be presumed a person lawfully occupying the home (or vehicle) acted in self defense against someone who unlawfully enters the home (or vehicle). The prosecution may rebut this presumption. The new statute also grants immunity from tort actions to the home or vehicle occupier. Ohio Becomes Latest State with NRA-Backed "Castle Doctrine" Self-Defense Law,Gongwer News Service Ohio, Vol. 77, Report #112, Article #3, June 11, 2008. Also see Ohio Governor Signs 'Castle Doctrine' Bill Despite Concerns by Law Enforcement, Toledo Blade, June 11, 2008.

Source

I have two "guns". A Bersa and a 1911.
I also have a rifle.
My small son and I went to a gun safety class when I bought the rifle.
He's seven and can hit center mass at 30 yards.
I have a gun safe because my two dogs, "Smith and Wesson" keep us safe at night.

I hate to speak in cliche's but when a people fear the government, you have tyranny. When a government fears it's people, you have liberty.

The reason why our government is kept in check so much is because we are all armed. If you want to see what a government looks like after they make owning a gun illegal, just take a look at Germany circa 1933.

reply to post by lostviking


Not only that do you think he would have walked up to her if I was standing beside here packing heat. I think not. He would of been like . Oh today is not the day. That guy is a threat. Or I better take him out first. Where the quicker draw would be victorious. ME

reply to post by Hefficide


Tha is the law here. For you to go hunting you need to go to a hunter safty course and provide proof.

To get a pistol permit. You need a doctors note that your of sound mind and you need to take a gun safety course and pass.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Sorry man but that is like comparing rotten apples to fresh oranges really. Did Toronto have all the manufacturing jobs move out of the city, followed by the removal of over 50% of it's law enforcement? There is no comparison to be made between the two. Detroit has been left to the criminal element. They are actually talking about shutting off services to parts of Detroit because it can no longer be maintained. If you want to compare cities lets go say Toronto vs Miami or Toronto vs Atlanta. When Toronto starts collapsing on itself then you can come back and make that argument, but until then it just doesn't work.

reply to post by autowrench


Love it.

it is your home you work hard for your belongings. Hell I know I do.

I bust my ass not for some free loading crack head who wants to kill my family to a 20 bag of crack.

When I'm at work MR Black knows who is supposed to be in the house and who is not. By the actions when the door bell rings when my wife arrives to greet who is at the door you know who is standing by to defend. Mr Black. He can read just by my wifes expression if this guys a friend or stanger. If my wife lets them in then he is on guard at her side. One word and its off with your face. I have not trained an animal to attack.

But I definetly have trained a companion for life who loves me my family and he knows he is loved and we are his pack leaders.

If you mess with the pack you get Mr black.

Nuff said.