Here is your war on Terrorism ! America !

reply to post by spy66


So I guess all military personnel are politicaltools then?

reply to post by FarArcher


I swear I was fixing to post that. My mind didn't change between tours. I was actually more eager the second go around.

Originally posted by spy66
Why should we give support to people who are ignorant to peoples opinions before they go to war?

Exactly. Why give weight to the opinions of people who haven't been, and don't know what it is they're even speaking about? I see a lot of that in this thread - like this quote:

Yes, they are people who don't recognise that they are political tools for doing dirty jobs that will scar them for life.

and:

If they where only fighting for our safety i would give them full support. But when they make our world a much worse place to live, i will not say that they are doing the right thing.

Who are you to decide why another man goes to war? Even in the same war, among soldiers of the same side, every man fights his own war, for his own reasons. That means that I, as a soldier, don't get to question or attribute the motivations of another fighter in any given war I'm involved in. How much less so someone who wasn't even there?

Yeah, I've seen my wars, and no, Iraq wasn't one of them. Close, but not quite. That means that I don't get the luxury of second guessing the motivations of the soldiers who WERE there. I only get to support them.

Originally posted by MarineSniper12Kills
reply to post by spy66

 

So I guess all military personnel are politicaltools then?

Yes they are. They are hired by the government to do government work.

reply to post by spy66


Lol...have you ever served in the armed forces?

Originally posted by nenothtu
Ah, yes, "International Law". Again I ask, please cite the law involved that was violated to make this illegal, the one that requires the UN Security Council to authorize any and all hostilities. Surely you are aware that the Rules of Engagement are in play after a war commences, and are not a pre-requisite to declaration of war? Do you know what RoE are?

Whether you want to admit it or not, there WAS "provocation", the only thing in question is whether it rose to the level to justify war. For me, it did not when everything is taken into consideration, but that in no way makes the war "illegal", just poorly thought out.

Yes I do know what the RoE is. Perhaps not all people use it to describe the justification for war.

Let me make it clear. Iraq did not attack the US. It did not threaten the US. In fact, it was threatened by the US into dismantling its few defensive weapons that could actually give them a chance to fight... but the US ignored their own deal and invaded anyway, with UN condemnation.

How did Iraq provoke the US?

And the war was not poorly thought out. The American government (Bush regime) knew exactly what they were doing; they even started planning the whole middle east strategy in the 90s, starting with the PNAC forum. I guess since they did not take their chance to invade Iran or North Korea yet, the plan has been put on hold in order for American strategists to regroup and re-plan how to take over rival interests in Asia.

As for civilians and enemy combatants... Well, I ask you, how many of these "enemy combatants" would still be civilians if their was no American invasion of the Middle East? They are not trained soldiers, they are rebels resisting against occupation. They are the direct result of American invasion and tactics that have killed many of the rebels' friends and families. It is American hostility that has flared up terrorism and rebellion among the occupied countries.

And by no way is it fair for the Americans to capture rebels that are fighting them, and shipping them around to world to live out indefinite sentences in cement cells without trial. The UN and many different countries tried to establish an international court for this very purpose, to represent rebels in a fair manner, but the US has done everything it can to delay this prospect just so their own commanders do not end up in trial.

reply to post by MarineSniper12Kills

These people don't have a clue, but they're experts in their own minds.

Can't set the headspace on an M2 Browning, but they can tell you how soldiers should think and in some instances, can intuit HOW they think. It's really beyond impressive. I certainly know that I am.

They don't understand the first damned thing about the Geneva Conventions - and yet when you speak of the specifics, they ignore the post and go off again into never-never land.

They don't even bother to determine WHY certain elements of the Geneva Conventions allow things such as summary execution of an armed combatant NOT in a standard, recognizable uniform, complete with insignia and rank.

It never crosses a dumbasses mind. Never.

And in the next breath, they'll talk about civilian casualties!

And that UN? The US doesn't need to ask the UN diddly squat, and in fact I long for the day that we tell the members of the UN to get out of the United States, take their squabbling, petty butts home, and see how the UN does after that.

I'm betting money it will do just as well as did the League of Nations without the US.

Somebody please, educate me further on terrorism, civilian casualties, the UN and terrorism. Especially those of you who have provided so very much insight.

reply to post by FarArcher


So correct. I wish we could just throw some of these fools in the desert and let them protest. Funny thing is an iraqi would probably kill them before we could.

reply to post by nenothtu


I spoke from personal experiance. I entered the Norwegian Navy in 1991 as a Combat Diver. Was in Afghanistan 98 because of Osama Bin Laden. Oman October 2001. Afghanistan December 2001 to march 2002. I resigned as a Combat Diver on the 27th of July 2004. I have never wanted to be in the Army again after.

reply to post by spy66

So your Army has the divers?

Now you have to help me here, but what was a diver doing in the mountains or desert?

Get wet? (Double meaning)

reply to post by FarArcher


It started off the navy then went to army? Im a little confused to.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by spy66

 

So your Army has the divers?

Now you have to help me here, but what was a diver doing in the mountains or desert?

Get wet? (Double meaning)

In Norway as in many other NATO countries a Combat Diver covers many skills. Not just the water.

Originally posted by MarineSniper12Kills
reply to post by FarArcher

 

It started off the navy then went to army? Im a little confused to.

The Navy is a part of the Army in Norway. I dont know if that helps you understand.

Maybe you want to start over - this doesn't sound quite right. Your're in the Navy, a Combat Diver, you're in Afghanistan a couple times with some other stops, and then you don't want to be in the Army again.

?????

But the Navy Combat Divers do other things? Like land things? Like transfer to the Army?

So, you served in the military, and you too, were a tool of those corrupt, militant governments.

Do I have this about right?

reply to post by FarArcher


www.goarmy.com...

reply to post by FarArcher


The navy does not have combat divers, with the exception of Navy Seals. Although the seals do have support divers whom might be considered "combat" divers, although they rarely ever take place in actually combat situations.


Although the poster was in the Norwegian Army, I would guess that they have a equivalent type of set up.

I'm very much aware of cross purposes.

In fact, I'm very much aware that Norway is and has been a very staunch ally of the US, including supporting us abroad with troops.

It was simply worded awkwardly and I was wanting to make certain someone wasn't whizzing down the back of my leg and telling me it was raining.

We're square.

reply to post by spy66


I still do not understand what a combat diver was doing in the desert.

Originally posted by FarArcher
Maybe you want to start over - this doesn't sound quite right. Your're in the Navy, a Combat Diver, you're in Afghanistan a couple times with some other stops, and then you don't want to be in the Army again.

?????

But the Navy Combat Divers do other things? Like land things? Like transfer to the Army?

So, you served in the military, and you too, were a tool of those corrupt, militant governments.

Do I have this about right?

Yes i was a tool. There is no questions about that.

I and i was used for political reasons all the time. But some of our objectives have never made the media because of political correctness. What that means is that you and the public are not supposed to know about our objectives and how we work to accomplish political objectives.

Originally posted by MarineSniper12Kills
reply to post by spy66

 

I still do not understand what a combat diver was doing in the desert.

Well you dont have to understand. Because it dosent matter if you don't.