The Implausability of UFOs Being Alien in Nature

Originally posted by jeddun
Facts, of which there are many I'm sure, I'll cover here are just a few key points as to why i believe these UFOs are anything but alien.

1. DNA Abductee Acquisitions: Well, this is by and large the easiest to discredit. An interstellar capable race of superior intelligence would NOT need multiple DNA biopsies done repeatedly. As all Human DNA is 100% the same why would they need any more than 1 single sample??? Surely a race such as this is capable of replicating what they need from one single sample, no?

2. DNA Bovine Acquisitions: See above..a Cow's, a Cow's, a Cow.....they (Aliens) haven't figured this out yet? I submit that It's the gasses in the bellies of these animals splitting the flesh from expansion to reveal a clean 'surgical' line of cutting....and of course animal scavengers.

3. Visitation: It is HIGHLY implausible that of all the races i read about, from the Reptoids on down to the lowly Greys, and beyond (i have read COUNTLESS different species descriptions in books and media from over the years) would all adapt and adhere to the single Mandate of 'hiding' from the Human species/world population. (snip).

4. Craft Lighting: Ok, why in Hell would any race of beings, hiding from the public, even run a single light aboard these craft? Surely they have a HUD screen where they can see anything they wish, including star system charts (reports over the years describe just this)...so why the anti-collision lights? Do they really expect to 'run into' an earthly craft whilst flying? Surely not as we've already outlined the absolute technological wonders they are capable of...so why something so SO simple as anti-collision lights???

5. Power & Diplomacy: Any race able to transverse the interstellar muck MUST have a process of Diplomacy, (snip)

Anyway...chew on that for a bit and once you get a clue you'll see that all these Alien craft are either mis identified natural occurrences OR Military.

Bonus: One of the oldest and most 'loved' stories by Alien believers is the Aurora Texas windmill crash in the late 1800s...proven a hoax!

You're head must be exploding from satisfaction you think you've earned with your comments as if you explained everything that needed explaining.

1 & 2 makes sense but since I don't accept alien abductions let someone else accept your comments as possibility. 2 I don't know about because most of the affected farmers (and not affected) claim that they hear helicopter sounds and some say they see strange lights, mostly at night so put cow situations on a back burner and leave predators as a possibility except for the clean surgical incisions. Add this to that, I have on videotape from the late '80s or early '90s footage of cows that had some kind of powder "sprayed" on them which was visible only with ultraviolet and the farmer who owned them said he had no reason to mark his cows in such a way.

3 is downright silly as you cannot quote any sources when it comes to describing something that no one knows anything about. Various races? How about just one race with evidence to support it?

4 I and countless others also wonder about the need for lights, whether solid, pulsing, or strobing unless that is a method for confusing because human craft employ these lighting devices and that could be one way of deflecting attention although hovering lights are sure to attract attention anyway.

5 "They" have not been proven to exist, yet. Hearsay doesn't make "they" real.

"Alien craft" are NOT misidentified natural occurrences or military. They are the mistery for which this forum exists. Millions of videos do not show natural occurrences or military crafts. Possibly a very small percentage does but those ar quickly recognized as such. Humans do not have nor can they construct aerial vehicles that behave as these "alien" craft do. Recognize that they are a mystery and let it go at that, you have not solved the mystery and you make a poor example of thinking you have.

Chew on that!

Originally posted by Scramjet76
As do I. Unfortunately, UFOlogy has fallen into insanity much like the majority of our society. People are using the wrong paradigm in trying to figure this out. One thing is for sure: aliens & UFOs are very likely related to bigfoot, NDE's (like ATS' own Kinglizard), reincarnation, and other events our culture views as "spirtual" or "supernatural."

Yes, getting over that "paranormal" hurdle is a hard one. A lot of people still like their aliens to be of the Star Trek type, with bodies and perceptions and motivations essentially the same as ours, but just from a different planet. However, the continued lack of any bit of direct evidence relating UFOs to any kind of alien anything tends to suggest that a lot of people have been barking up the wrong tree for the last half-century or more. If aliens were like us, they'd make a lot more mistakes. There's no way the government could be that good at hiding all the mistakes.

So, if we agree that it's not all crazy bullcrap, we have to look elsewhere for answers. We have to look at something where the actual structure of reality is modified or controlled. And this pushes us toward the supernatural or "magic" for lack of a better word. Real magic, which might someday be explained by an as-yet-undiscovered scientific theory of some kind. That's not much to hang our hats on at the moment, but this looking for aliens stuff has gotten us nowhere.

reply to post by Magnus47


Generally true. However, on your skin there are living millions of different types of bacterias and many are common on earth. It would not be far fetched idea that some of the them would transfer from one being to another. Also in most "alien abduction" cases aliens do not seem to take precautions against biological contamination. If I were an Alien to examine another species I would take all precautions to prevent biological contamination even just for my own sake. (Unless I didn't had anything to worry...which raises question why?)
Heck, we even sterilize all space probes going to mars, moon or any other terrestrial body to avoid biological contamination. Try harder. And what about these "abduction rape" cases?

Originally posted by Blue Shift
[
But you're talking about if we tried it with our current technology and what we currently understand about spacetime. Hey, our current understanding of spacetime is only about 100 years old. Before we start saying what is or isn't plausible, let's give ourselves another couple hundred years to refine those theories.

After all, even Einstein said that time was a matter of perception. I'm no super genius like that guy, but I get the impression that the more we learn about how our DNA interacts with spacetime on a quantum level to generate reality, the more we'll learn about how to modify space, time, perception and reality such that we'll be able to "be" (rather than "move") from one location to another without it requiring so much raw power. What DNA does is give us each a point-of-view. How about if we were able to somehow amplify and modify that point-of-view using technology?

It's difficult to imagine, because at the moment, we have a hard time incorporating things like point-of-view into our mathematical equations -- which shows the obvious limitations of mathematics in symbolically representing reality.

This is a pretty serious distortion of what General Relativity entails. DNA is irrelevant, and time is not dependent on "point of view" but inertial perspective. Your thoughts or opinions are irrelevant to how you pass through time (although they may effect how you notice the passage of time,) it's just your velocity that matters. This is entirely within our ability to model mathematically.

Our current understanding of space-time may only be a hundred years old, but unlike any other model before, it, it has withstood a hundred years of rigorous concerted and very high budget attempts to falsify it. Our understanding may, and probably will change if we finally attain a unified field theory, but the new model would have to explain all the same observations as the old one. It can't provide radically different predictions; if it predicts anything different, it can only be under extremely exceptional and hard to observe conditions.

The whole UFO /alien/demon business is exceedingly complex and jumbled, made moreso it seems by a concerted campaign by TPTB to misinform and misdirect the public - here is an excellent page to convince yourself beyond doubt that this is in fact so: www.thecrowhouse.com...

To make sense of the Jumble it is necessary to have some appreciation of the multidimensional nature of awareness in the universe - there is endless and statistically compelling literatue about this from Mystics, OBE, Spiritualism, Shamanism, Fairie lore, Pscho-active drugs etc.

Thereis also absolutely compelling evidence from past civilisations that nuts and bolts, aliens were very actively involved in the affairs of men, but left some few thousand yrs ago - along the lines of Sitchen, Niburu etc. The seeds of life being transferred to the early earth, or vice versa during close encounters with Niburu and the inner planets

It seems the remmnants or descendents of these aliens have kept control of affairs on earth as the bloodline elites, using religions, and more recently the NWO - that the Black budget depts of the US govt are heavily involved in wierd collaborative projects with some of these other alien or dimensional species.


And yet the modern UFO phenomena - shows all the hallmarks of being a non-physical phenomena, more akin to the activities accociated with fairies jinns or especially the Gnostic account of Archons - it seems distictly possible that modern day activity can be traced to the efforts of Crowley and followers to open portals to these other dimensions, enabling them to enter our reality in much bolder more physical ways.

reply to post by jeddun


Sorry, no facts were presented. All I see are assumptions on your part. Your view point is limited and totally human-centered. Fact is that we have no clue how Aliens would think and act. My guess is that their technology would look like "magic" to us.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

There is also absolutely compelling evidence from past civilisations that nuts and bolts, aliens were very actively involved in the affairs of men, ...

Please give me your strongest evidence. IMHO your "evidence" is always comparable to blurry UFO pics, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

There is also absolutely compelling evidence from past civilisations that nuts and bolts, aliens were very actively involved in the affairs of men, ...

Please give me your strongest evidence. IMHO your "evidence" is always comparable to blurry UFO pics, but I could be wrong.

Read the link provided - it is a long one but worth the effort - there are no blurry phots, there!

reply to post by jeddun


maybe they require different dna samples to see how they compare to the original dna they left on our planet 1,000s of years ago...

reply to post by Blue Shift

Real magic, which might someday be explained by an as-yet-undiscovered scientific theory of some kind. That's not much to hang our hats on at the moment, but this looking for aliens stuff has gotten us nowhere.

It's already discovered. It's mankind which has lost its way and cornered itself into believing that he needs to continually act out his/her mammalian instincts. The way mammals live doesn't apply to humanity anymore. Just like we don't live in the woods anymore. We sit on comfortable couches and watch color tv and play xbox.

Here is the correct paradigm which ultimately not only explains what "aliens/UFOs" are, but what we are as well:

MISHLOVE: So the ultimate unified theory would be one in which consciousness also fits into the picture, wouldn't it?

SIRAG: Well, not only fits into the picture. What I really think is that consciousness in some sense, in some sort of cosmic sense really, that there really is only one consciousness, and that's really the whole thing. In other words, the hyperspace itself is consciousness acting on itself, and space-time is just kind of a studio space for it to act out various things in. And of course this is an old, old idea in many different spiritual traditions.

Source: Consciousness and Hyperspace

This is the simplest and best answer that can accomodate for all things supernatural. The "aliens" are not really aliens at all. More like just "other pieces of the whole." They are "custodians" who are trying to get us to understand the inherent dangers of getting lost in physicality. They are very concerned that we have forgotten what we really are.

Now, how much of the alien/UFO phenomenon is "physically real" in the way we understand our spacetime is unclear.

Hello all, I’ve been somewhat of a frequent to these boards and really enjoy reading this stuff but never post. I’d like to chime in here. As far as eye witness reports go, you can’t trust anyone. Really, you can’t. I used to naively believe the words of the “credible” accounts but if you do some research on the most notable witnesses and ufo information contributors, you’ll soon realize that most of these people are merely spreading disinformation for many reasons or they are confused with the truth like the majority us who find this subject appealing.

Another aspect that I would like to point out is that in a good portion of eye witness accounts you’ll read/hear about the ufo suddenly accelerating and taking off at impossible speeds. How come there are no videos of this? Maybe there is and I don’t know about it but I’ve never seen genuine footage of this common sighting trait. Speaking of visual evidence, what happened to the classic “saucer” shape style from years ago? They don’t seem to exist anymore in modern videos and pictures? It was much easier back then to be convincing with using household objects combined with poor photo quality.

I’m not trying to degrade anyone’s beliefs but I once too believed everything I heard and saw regarding the phenomena and it took a while to weed through all of the deceptions. I do believe there is life out there and I also wonder if they check up on us once in a while, and maybe they do for all I know because I don’t know for sure. But when the lies start outweighing the truth, one must wonder.

Cheers!

[

This is the simplest and best answer that can accomodate for all things supernatural. The "aliens" are not really aliens at all. More like just "other pieces of the whole." They are "custodians" who are trying to get us to understand the inherent dangers of getting lost in physicality. They are very concerned that we have forgotten what we really are.

Now, how much of the alien/UFO phenomenon is "physically real" in the way we understand our spacetime is unclear.

Disregarding for now all issues of whether this is actually a simple explanation, why should they not simply tell us about the dangers of getting lost in physicality, and that they're concerned that we've forgotten what we really are? If that's the message they want to convey, it seems like they could hardly have gone about disseminating it in a less effective manner.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

There is also absolutely compelling evidence from past civilisations that nuts and bolts, aliens were very actively involved in the affairs of men, ...

Please give me your strongest evidence. IMHO your "evidence" is always comparable to blurry UFO pics, but I could be wrong.

Read the link provided - it is a long one but worth the effort - there are no blurry phots, there!

After reading your reply I was also going to ask what evidence you find compelling to support your comments but sometimes it's not worth the effort. However, AllsOne had similar thoughts as mine and your reply to him is just more sidestepping because reading is not evidence unless the reading points to irrefutable evidence. Anyone that mentions nibiru/sitchin is not dealing with evidence, just hearsay and creative writing.

I agree with you on all but #4. It appears that the lights on these craft are an important part of their propulsion system, and that all walks of the crafts' activities somehow stem from these light-powered tools (why glowing orbs leave craft to explore areas). As for why they don't just make themselves invisible, I think the majority of them do, which is why we don't see them. But just like everything else in the universe, not everyone follows proper protocol.

reply to post by The Shrike


Yep, anybody can write anything. But I would never call that evidence.

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

There is also absolutely compelling evidence from past civilisations that nuts and bolts, aliens were very actively involved in the affairs of men, ...

Please give me your strongest evidence. IMHO your "evidence" is always comparable to blurry UFO pics, but I could be wrong.

Read the link provided - it is a long one but worth the effort - there are no blurry phots, there!

After reading your reply I was also going to ask what evidence you find compelling to support your comments but sometimes it's not worth the effort. However, AllsOne had similar thoughts as mine and your reply to him is just more sidestepping because reading is not evidence unless the reading points to irrefutable evidence. Anyone that mentions nibiru/sitchin is not dealing with evidence, just hearsay and creative writing.

edit on 22-12-2010 by The Shrike because: Added comment.

Ant that is exactly how they keep the public from ever being told the truth, take for example 'out of place artifacts' any one of which once verified ought to be enough to destroy the whole conventional view of human history. You will see on one of these 'mystery' programs for example, a few ambiguous examples of say a human footprint with a dino track - or a piece of metal with strange markings - and then it is left as ambiguous, with the clear message being omparted that it is only the fringe loonies that 'choose' to believe they are real. This is just how an innoculation works - next time you will just avoid this as 'not worth the effort' - however if you took the time to inform yourself - you will find that there are thousands and thousands of these things all over the world, hidden away in museum draws - or learn about how archeologists who stick to thier stories have thier careers ruined.

There are unambiguous pictures and models of planes helicopters, vivid descriptions of nuclear weapons in the Vedas, and the Sumerian tablets, vast sheets of sand fused to glass in the Sinai deserts, radioactive masses of skeletons in india as well as radioactive cities, hundreds of ancient ruins with vitrified walls - 1200 ton blocks of stone that are immpossible to move, - all this is the tip of the ice-berg what you have seen on MSM is just 'gatekeeping' an 'innoculation' to get you to automatically dimiss it as speculative or hearsay.

Same thing with Geology - Plate techtonics as a theory is chock full of holes and contradictions and is patently not how the earth works, it is in fact expanding.

Knowledge is power, and whatever is running this show wants to keep you coralled inside a series of paradigms of thier choosing - this makes you predictable and controllable, just like a farmer controls livestock with fences that they will never think to cross.

They are experts at conncocting these paradigms - you may know in your gut they are false but are compelled to follow nontheless - Political correctness in the Soviet Union and now throughout the Western world, All of the Monothestic religions, Global warming.

The evidence is there often in plain sight - they probably reason that humans are too dangerously stupid to make thier own decisions and need tot be coralled and controlled. The fact that could just think for themselves and see the truth but don't , just proves thier point!

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


Why do you suppose that archaeologists don't want to change their view of human history if the evidence actually supports it? It's not like the prevailing view in scientific fields hasn't changed before due to the weight of evidence. Scientists aren't perfect, but one of the foundational job skills is learning to change one's mind when confronted with new and compelling information, and I've often reflected on the fact that given their ages and the times at which the discoveries were made, many of my own professors must have changed their curricula considerably over the course of their careers to reflect changes in scientific knowledge. What, if not the actual strength of the evidence, prevents them from doing so in this case?

Also, can you explain what the flaws and contradictions in plate tectonic theory are, and how the expanding earth hypothesis does better?

Originally posted by Desertopa
reply to post by JohhnyBGood

 

Why do you suppose that archaeologists don't want to change their view of human history if the evidence actually supports it? It's not like the prevailing view in scientific fields hasn't changed before due to the weight of evidence. Scientists aren't perfect, but one of the foundational job skills is learning to change one's mind when confronted with new and compelling information, and I've often reflected on the fact that given their ages and the times at which the discoveries were made, many of my own professors must have changed their curricula considerably over the course of their careers to reflect changes in scientific knowledge. What, if not the actual strength of the evidence, prevents them from doing so in this case?

Also, can you explain what the flaws and contradictions in plate tectonic theory are, and how the expanding earth hypothesis does better?

edit on 23-12-2010 by Desertopa because: additional question

Ha - just review the 'controversy' over the dating of the Sphinx, yes in thier relentless openminded quest for the truth the Egyptian authorities have banned the originators or this theory from the country, www.morien-institute.org...


or look at the recent thread about giants in N.A - long history of sightings, skeletal remains still hidden away in museum drawers. www.abovetopsecret.com...


As for techtonic theory - where to begin? - what force is it do you suppose that moves continents about like dogem cars over the planets surface, such that India wanders about willy nilly then crashes into Asia with such force that it creates the Himalayas - geologists certainly don't know, they gave up on magma convection a while ago then ludicrously proposed subduction as the driving force, seeing as thats thier only other possibility, though why a less dense ocean floor would 'sink' into a denser medium requires some very creative physics!

There is very little direct evidence for subduction and certainly nowhere near enough of it to account for the massive (and accelerating) increase in continental seafloor over the last 250 million yrs.

Strangely enough though if you were to watch one of Niel Adams animations - the whole of the continal land masses contact neatly into a complete crust, one third of the present size, without traveling anywhere or rotating. www.youtube.com...

Just as compelling (and not mutualy condtradictory) is the triple geospheres model of the earth blog.hasslberger.com...

reply to post by jeddun


Facts, of which there are many I'm sure, I'll cover here are just a few key points as to why i believe these UFOs are anything but alien.

1. DNA Abductee Acquisitions: Well, this is by and large the easiest to discredit. An interstellar capable race of superior intelligence would NOT need multiple DNA biopsies done repeatedly. As all Human DNA is 100% the same why would they need any more than 1 single sample??? Surely a race such as this is capable of replicating what they need from one single sample, no?

Answer :

You hit the nail on the head there. SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE. Who are we to suggest the motives of such beings? All our race is capable of is greed, violence and keeping secrets from one another. Who knows why they are obtaining multiple samples of our DNA? Tests? Replication in case of a world disaster? Who knows. We certainly don't.

2. DNA Bovine Acquisitions: See above..a Cow's, a Cow's, a Cow.....they (Aliens) haven't figured this out yet? I submit that It's the gasses in the bellies of these animals splitting the flesh from expansion to reveal a clean 'surgical' line of cutting....and of course animal scavengers.

Answer:

I don't hold much credibility with these stories... honestly...

3. Visitation: It is HIGHLY implausible that of all the races i read about, from the Reptoids on down to the lowly Greys, and beyond (i have read COUNTLESS different species descriptions in books and media from over the years) would all adapt and adhere to the single Mandate of 'hiding' from the Human species/world population. This just makes no sense to me, and surprisingly I've never read anyone else even mention this as It's so simple. Why would every race of Alien, from God knows where, with no connection to one another even in the Political sense, stick to the same process? Like clockwork, from reading accounts of witnesses, it would appear they are all on the same page, following the same orders of "staying out of the public eye".....strange.

Answer:

Do you know WHY Aliens would stay out of the public eye? Picture it from their point of view. Imagine if an advanced race of superior beings had been observing our planet for countless generations. Would you readily announce yourself to a warlike, xenophobic, greedy race such as our own? Granted, our governments are the ones keeping secrets from us *cough* America *cough* but they are the ones shaping our view on things through political propaganda and single minded acquisition of power for their own needs. Aliens could be observing and hiding from our race for more than just being worried about approaching us. They could be secretly guiding us (see Ancient Astronaut theory. Also, all the accounts of UFO's disabling nuclear warheads etc) or they could even be protecting us from an outside threat... or maybe they are just waiting until we progress enough to be able to handle a meeting a race such as theirs without inducing world wide panic... Again, who are we to judge the motives of a race far beyond our own in terms of knowledge?

4. Craft Lighting: Ok, why in Hell would any race of beings, hiding from the public, even run a single light aboard these craft? Surely they have a HUD screen where they can see anything they wish, including star system charts (reports over the years describe just this)...so why the anti-collision lights? Do they really expect to 'run into' an earthly craft whilst flying? Surely not as we've already outlined the absolute technological wonders they are capable of...so why something so SO simple as anti-collision lights???


Answer:

Who says they are anti-collision lights? They could be anything. They could be light eminating from whatever source powers their craft, it could be their shielding reacting with our atmosphere, it could be their craft resonating some sort of energy field that deflects radar or signals etc. They could be scanners or sensors or a whole host of things we couldn't comprehend. They could be lights signaling their coffee machine is in need of fixing, who bloody knows.

5. Power & Diplomacy: Any race able to transverse the interstellar muck MUST have a process of Diplomacy, why is it SO hard for them to approach even one of us in power to exalt their desire to reach out to us? What are they waiting for? With their technology surely they are masters of energy and war (even a peaceful race is able to defend it's home and border).....so why so tentative with the Human race? To say "Oh they know we aren't ready" is preposterous and self-aggrandizing...only Humans think Humans are special. Especially hen this is mentioned in the same breath as "Oh the Human Earth race is unlike any other..so they are taking their time"...LOL the only place this way of thinking works is in the 3 top religions of the world.


Answer:

Please see point 3. They have their motives and I'm pretty sure our self destructive attitude isn't helping things. We must seem like spoilt brats from the interstellar. I get the impression any race interested in us would want us to sort our s*** out before they attempt anything... the rate this world is going, they are going to have to do it for us... which is pretty embarrassing.


------

Of course, this is my own thoughts and opinions. Please take them with a pinch of salt as you would any other.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

As for techtonic theory - where to begin? - what force is it do you suppose that moves continents about like dogem cars over the planets surface, such that India wanders about willy nilly then crashes into Asia with such force that it creates the Himalayas - geologists certainly don't know, they gave up on magma convection a while ago then ludicrously proposed subduction as the driving force, seeing as thats thier only other possibility, though why a less dense ocean floor would 'sink' into a denser medium requires some very creative physics!

There is very little direct evidence for subduction and certainly nowhere near enough of it to account for the massive (and accelerating) increase in continental seafloor over the last 250 million yrs.

Strangely enough though if you were to watch one of Niel Adams animations - the whole of the continal land masses contact neatly into a complete crust, one third of the present size, without traveling anywhere or rotating. www.youtube.com...


Just as compelling (and not mutualy condtradictory) is the triple geospheres model of the earth blog.hasslberger.com...

Can you provide any citations for the claim that scientists have "given up on" convection as a driving force for plate tectonics? We can observe sea floor spreading at mid ocean ridges, measure the age of sea floor through radiometric dating (it's oldest near continental margins, where subduction occurs, with the oldest sea floor dating back roughly 250 million years.)

The continental crust is not denser than oceanic crust. It's thicker, but the felsic rock of which it is composed is less dense than the basaltic rock of the oceanic crust.

The decay of radioactive elements in Earth's mantle and core (most naturally occurring radioactive elements are very dense and are much more abundant in the mantle and core than the crust), and heat released from solidification of molten matter onto earth's core, could readily provide the energy to drive magma convection. What do you suppose would cause the Earth to continually expand? For it to expand several time over over time without generating new mass, or for it to create new matter, both require processes unknown to modern physics. What makes you consider this hypothesis less problematic than plate tectonics?

Also, if the earth were expanding over time, then we should expect that either 1) surface gravity has decreased over time, as the surface has become further from the center of mass without the total mass increasing, or 2) surface gravity has increased over time, since mass has a cubic relationship with volume, and surface gravity is proportional to the square of the distance from the center of mass. If I can devise an experiment to test whether Earth's surface gravity was significantly different in the past, and the results indicate that it was not, would you accept the expanding Earth hypothesis as falsified?