Pareidolia and imagery anomalies on Mars: Case study#1 Bonestell Crater Part 1

Originally posted by ArMaP
I will try to get an idea of its height by using the length of its shadow, but I do not promise any results.

I finally tried to get an idea of the height of the object in this post, and I got around 2.3 metres, not taking into account the slopping of the ground, that makes a longer shadow, so it means that the object is smaller than the 2.3 metres.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by alphaMegas
As i mentioned in my previous post, I have images of "anomalies" of humanoid figures.in this "orb" or an opening like structure.

I think that's a small (10 metres) crater.

If we look at it closely, it seems they are on their way out. I can see at least 3 anomalous figures.
Could be a play on pixels, lights, shadows?

In the original image, that crater (if it's a crater) is only 40 pixels wide, how can you say that those pixels are "anomalous figures"? There's nothing identifiable on that image.

yes, its could be a mini crater, and yet in the b/w image there is visible "dark anomaly" inside of it.
it would be interesting if you can "blow up" this on your side and about the height issue (2 meters less?), am also trying to come up with some data to formulate a correction factor on these things and I think that 2 meters is more likely the value and something comparable to our human heights, if that figure is "humanoid".

since you opined that there's no identifiable on the images i sent you, i think that is the best i can make up with those pixels.
i'll try to find more...and better...
there's lots of them about

reply to post by ArMaP


seems like am giving myself an awful lot of hard time in "humanoid lifesize figures", i'll skip off the face on mars
for a while but i'll be back.
now heres a region on Mars i'll call it the "War Zone"
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/392355de52e1.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0042bbed5c8.jpg[/atsimg]

Now i'll call 'em 2 guys the warchiefs cause if you of look at them their kind of wearing some sort of headresses.
the one on the left measures bout 500 meters more, the one on the right roughly 300...so their huge.but they are not just some pareidolia images, they are more like murals etched on the wall or statues...
now i call them war chiefs because of the strange images around and below them.
just about 2 kms from the chiefs is a bunch of "squiggley" images and further south about 30 kilos is another group but with denser concentration.
which is this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/de289a7bbf41.jpg[/atsimg]

I have so many things, anomalies i'd like to pick out but this one stands out. and the crisscrossing tracks?

This image suggests some kind of a heat source , a huge fire or could be a blast signature.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/85c9270bd8a0.jpg[/atsimg]
Now the nagging question or is there, whats these warchiefs images gotta do with these activities?
is there a war going on? on this part of Mars?
Its reminiscent of the burning oilfields during the war here in the middle east..
upload.wikimedia.org...

I think them Martians are just standing firm on their reputation as the Warriors...

Originally posted by alphaMegas
now heres a region on Mars i'll call it the "War Zone"

This was the best photo I could find of that area with the 2 "warchiefs".

From MOC photo E14-00502

just about 2 kms from the chiefs is a bunch of "squiggley" images and further south about 30 kilos is another group but with denser concentration.

The "squiggley" images are, once more, dunes.

The group of dunes closer to the 2 "warchiefs".
(click for full size)


The other group of dunes.
(click for full size)

Source

I have so many things, anomalies i'd like to pick out but this one stands out. and the crisscrossing tracks?

Those look like dustdevils' tracks.

This image suggests some kind of a heat source , a huge fire or could be a blast signature.

No heat source, at least according to this THEMIS image.


Source

The hotter areas are only at 270º Kelvin (-3º C or 27º F), no heat sources in the area.
(The hotter areas are the brighter ones)

Now the nagging question or is there, whats these warchiefs images gotta do with these activities?

I think they are just geological formations.

reply to post by ArMaP


Good analysis....that's why they pay you so much around here... (Don't tell the other Mods!)

The hotter areas are only at 270º Kelvin (-3º C or 27º F), no heat sources in the area.

I think some may get the wrong impression, sometimes, with the term "hot" and "hotter" used in this context?

It is a photography term, right? The "temperature" of a light source, (defined as a specific brightness level, for standardization purposes) whether direct (flash strobe, fill light) or reflected...as is the case in those Mars features. Something angled just right, and reflective enough, to catch the Sun's rays and shoot them back towards the camera at the moment the photo was taken. Similar effect above and to the right, in the crater rim wall.

The features of Mars, natural formations subject to similar erosion forces as on Earth, likely much of similar materials...but subtly, sometimes eerily different-looking, because of the difference inherent in the conditions each planet is subjected to.

I suppose there's always the potential thought that geological ("areological" ?? Yes, it fits better....) formations seen on Mars result from, also, its lack of major tectonic plate movement activity, as on Earth....and the constant re-cycling of the surface features of the crust in that manner. "Weather"-related erosion (and, absent any significant liquid water....a major factor, too, for Earth's "weather" erosion effects) is just not as "powerful" as the violent burying and "re-birth" of the crust, and the many creative ways Earth presents herself to us......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I think some may get the wrong impression, sometimes, with the term "hot" and "hotter" used in this context?

You're right, sorry about that.

That photo is a thermal photo, and in that particular case the darkest areas have a temperature of 257.729º Kelvin and the brightest a temperature of 270.625º Kelvin.

reply to post by ArMaP


Thanks for the analysis.
regarding the temps, does this applies to the whole of the planet?

it would seems that with those temp. values, Mars "ambient" temperature would be forever frosty all through
its seasons?

So its no war zone...
what a relief...

reply to post by ArMaP


i think it's time to put some words and the "why" is this relentless drive to share such "amateurish" even seemingly unknown images
here's a quote:

"The battle lines of our covert struggle extend from our external reality into the Internet and through our individual minds. Most people including our friends and relatives have trouble appreciating our efforts because our activities have moved beyond their horizons. Friends often become confused and even hostile to us, feeling that we have abandoned the world to escape into realms of fantasy. While this may be true for many in our field who lose their way amongst all the misinformation and disinformation, it is not true for all of us."

and here's the main link:

www.ufodigest.com...

I know some members follow me on these threads, the images are there and can readily avail of them with googles apps, though there are members who would prefer the "official " images so be it.

and heres some more to scratch our heads with...smile ur on candid camera

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b0a3fae6dc1b.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by alphaMegas
regarding the temps, does this applies to the whole of the planet?

It applies only to that area, at the moment the photo was taken.

Originally posted by alphaMegas
i think it's time to put some words and the "why" is this relentless drive to share such "amateurish" even seemingly unknown images
here's a quote:

The battle lines of our covert struggle extend from our external reality into the Internet and through our individual minds. Most people including our friends and relatives have trouble appreciating our efforts because our activities have moved beyond their horizons. Friends often become confused and even hostile to us, feeling that we have abandoned the world to escape into realms of fantasy. While this may be true for many in our field who lose their way amongst all the misinformation and disinformation, it is not true for all of us.

and here's the main link:

www.ufodigest.com...

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.

I know some members follow me on these threads, the images are there and can readily avail of them with googles apps, though there are members who would prefer the "official " images so be it.

Sure I prefer the official images, where do you think Google got the images they use? And the original images are always better than the Google version.

and heres some more to scratch our heads with...smile ur on candid camera

What's special about that?

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by alphaMegas
i think it's time to put some words and the "why" is this relentless drive to share such "amateurish" even seemingly unknown images
here's a quote:

The battle lines of our covert struggle extend from our external reality into the Internet and through our individual minds. Most people including our friends and relatives have trouble appreciating our efforts because our activities have moved beyond their horizons. Friends often become confused and even hostile to us, feeling that we have abandoned the world to escape into realms of fantasy. While this may be true for many in our field who lose their way amongst all the misinformation and disinformation, it is not true for all of us.

and here's the main link:

www.ufodigest.com...

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by that.

Its a quote. What it exactly means is upon the author, and how it relates to the whole article.

quote]Sure I prefer the official images, where do you think Google got the images they use? And the original images are always better than the Google version.
its simply a matter of preference.

and heres some more to scratch our heads with...smile ur on candid camera

What's special about that?

Nothing, its a common anomaly actually. and its becoming the norm.

and heres some more to scratch our heads with...smile ur on candid camera

What's special about that?

Well, there's realy 2 of them.one facing us, and the other, his back's on us.

it looked like they are having a conversation

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b6ada8146cb5.jpg[/atsimg]

i know,i have a feeling you're coming back with very interesting remarks, but there is nothing special on this,
just sharing...

Originally posted by alphaMegas
"The battle lines of our covert struggle extend from our external reality into the Internet and through our individual minds. Most people including our friends and relatives have trouble appreciating our efforts because our activities have moved beyond their horizons. Friends often become confused and even hostile to us, feeling that we have abandoned the world to escape into realms of fantasy. While this may be true for many in our field who lose their way amongst all the misinformation and disinformation, it is not true for all of us."

That looks an awful lot like someone trying to rationalize the fact that they have abandoned the world to escape into realms of fantasy.

And if I were to ask you, alphMegas, whether you have lost your way amongst all the misinformation and disinformation. I'll bet that you would deny it. Oh no, not you: Your under-appreciated activities have moved beyond our horizons.

"covert struggle"

What
a
load
of
crap.

Do you know what is the real tragedy in all this? It is that you are missing-out on the real excitement of exploring an alien world. Perhaps you feel disappointed when your "faces" turn out to be just sand dunes? Meanwhile, I and others are thinking, "Wow, sand dunes! Are they made of gypsum, quartz, basalt, or something else? Where did this material come from? How grainy is it? How can I use and/or build instruments to answer these questions?" You see patterns on the inner rim of a crater, I want to know how those layers formed. Are they volcanic or sedimentary? That shelf around the "face" in Cydonia looks a lot like the sand shelves that form around islands in an ocean. Is there evidence to support this hypothesis?

The reality of exploring Mars is so cool - so damn cool. There are so many genuine mysteries, so many questions and so much to learn. And there is the whole notion of imaging oneself out on those dusty plains...

But somehow this is all boring to those who are too lazy to actually learn about the real wonders in the universe around them.

Do you know what is the real tragedy in all this? It is that you are missing-out on the real excitement of exploring an alien world. Perhaps you feel disappointed when your "faces" turn out to be just sand dunes? Meanwhile, I and others are thinking, "Wow, sand dunes! Are they made of gypsum, quartz, basalt, or something else? Where did this material come from? How grainy is it? How can I use and/or build instruments to answer these questions?" You see patterns on the inner rim of a crater, I want to know how those layers formed. Are they volcanic or sedimentary? That shelf around the "face" in Cydonia looks a lot like the sand shelves that form around islands in an ocean. Is there evidence to support this hypothesis?

i dont mind the crap thing...in our part of the world its called dung and got some methane properties it can be used for cooking...

sand dunes? well 90% of it is silicon and quartz. The quartz part they used for electropiezo component which gives us our digital clocks and a lot of useful things...silicon..well you have the silicon valley and we all know what they are doing down there with the silicates, right mate?

But basalt? its one of the hard rock substance ideal for concrete mix production...

What augments the volume of sand in a sand dune are limestones and marl rock formations where it can be easily eroded by wind or water
and that made the silty part of the sand dunes.

How grainy are they? if you have a set of sieves, usually these dune sand passes bout 80% of a Number 80 micron sieves....

now you know how and what its made????
then tell me if its a load of whatever...
gypsum? its a component of cement where it controlled its setting time. its a naturally occuring mineral or can be produced synthetically...have you ever seen a gypsum board or alabasters?

reply to post by alphaMegas


And you found out the composition of Martian sand dunes... how?

Reading comprehension and understanding context are important research skills.

Originally posted by Saint Exupery
reply to post by alphaMegas

 

And you found out the composition of Martian sand dunes... how?

Reading comprehension and understanding context are important research skills.

Where in my thread did I ever wrote "I found out the composition of Martian Dunes?

its your reply that postulates that those were sand dune etc..i simply responded to it...
in fact,what i've been trying to convey in this thread is that there are images on mars, we call pareidoia but that there are images too besides shadows and dots and rock protrusions that really merit some attention.

i've never been there and the data i show you are terrestial...i wasnt reading anything when i replied to you with those data cause its my field of say ...expertise...my bread and butter...comprende amigo???

Originally posted by alphaMegas
Where in my thread did I ever wrote "I found out the composition of Martian Dunes?

Originally posted by Saint Exupery
Perhaps you feel disappointed when your "faces" turn out to be just sand dunes? Meanwhile, I and others are thinking, "Wow, sand dunes! Are they made of gypsum, quartz, basalt, or something else? Where did this material come from? How grainy is it? How can I use and/or build instruments to answer these questions?"

The first sentence establishes that the sand dunes I refer to are the ones in your Google Mars images. There is absolutely nothing to indicate any other context.

Originally posted by alphaMegas
its your reply that postulates that those were sand dune etc.

I'm not postulating that they are sand dunes. They are clearly and unambiguously sand dunes. The third and subsequent sentence above are questions about the composition of these martian sand dunes (context established in the first sentence).

Originally posted by alphaMegas
i simply responded to it...

If you responded to information about earthly sand dunes, that would not relevant to my inquiries about martian dunes. If I were to assume you were responding within the established context of the questions, then your description would presumably be about the composition of martian dunes, which (afaik) is unknown. This is why I asked how you knew the composition of martian dunes.

So either your answers were either irrelevant to the questions asked within the established context, or you were presuming knowledge you did not have.

Originally posted by alphaMegas
i've never been there and the data i show you are terrestial...

Irrelevant to the questions asked within the established context. Got it.*

Originally posted by alphaMegas
in fact, what i've been trying to convey in this thread is that there are images on mars, we call pareidoia but that there are images too besides shadows and dots and rock protrusions that really merit some attention.

Why? What I was trying to convey in my above post is that the legitimate scientific mysteries are more interesting and, ultimately, more satisfying because we learn more about the planet Mars than we do by studying differing opinions about Rorschach blots in low resolution, nth generation images. If a geology-related field is your area of expertise, then I am frankly surprised that you aren't expressing curiousity about the geologic processes implied in the higher resolution photographs.

I was fine with the fun-with-shapes pareidolia discussion until you quoted that passage about the "covert struggle". I interpreted this as not only pompous and misguided, but also lending undo weight to what are nothing more than opinions about artifacts caused by applying primitive mapping software to very low-resolution imagery and even lower-resolution terrain data.

If I came across as harsh, my apologies. Everywhere I look on ATS, I see ignorance of - and even hostility to - science. It is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, and I get frustrated by those who gorge themselves on intellectual junk-food and ignore the wonderous treats that nature has to offer.



*Btw, I noticed that you used the correct noun/verb combination, "data... are". Thanks for that. Every time I click on the "Forums" button at the top of each ATS page, I cringe at the bad grammar! Now excuse me; I have to go write, "The passive voice is to be shunned" 100 times...

Originally posted by Saint Exupery


If a geology-related field is your area of expertise, then I am frankly surprised that you aren't expressing curiousity about the geologic processes implied in the higher resolution photographs.

I was fine with the fun-with-shapes pareidolia discussion until you quoted that passage about the "covert struggle". I interpreted this as not only pompous and misguided, but also lending undo weight to what are nothing more than opinions about artifacts caused by applying primitive mapping software to very low-resolution imagery and even lower-resolution terrain data.

if you've been staring at those lifeless rocks for quite sometime and never got a response from "them" rocks, maybe looking at some other things of interest is definitely a relief...
and something like "humanoid shapes" or figures from another planet definitely is a mindbender...
And rightly, until such time we set our feet and dig up on Mars' ground then, all we have are no more than opinions.
so lets continue having fun with those images.and who knows we might get some response???
And regarding that "quote", i was hoping that those who came across it read the link...and treat it in its context.
anyway it serves the purpose,"covert struggle" eh? it got your attention...

thanks for the time St..

Originally posted by alphaMegas
and something like "humanoid shapes" or figures from another planet definitely is a mindbender...

That's the problem I have with those images, nothing looks humanoid to me.

In the last photo, for example, we have what looks like, to me, a rock casting a shadow on the ground, with a higher area of the ground getting out of the shadow and catching the light. It may be something else, but to me, a humanoid figure should look at least a little like a human, and that means two legs, a torso, two arms and a head, and there is nothing on that photo that reminds me of any of those elements of a humanoid figure.

And regarding that "quote", i was hoping that those who came across it read the link...and treat it in its context.

I read it, but I don't see the connection with the photos you have been posting.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by alphaMegas
and something like "humanoid shapes" or figures from another planet definitely is a mindbender...

That's the problem I have with those images, nothing looks humanoid to me.
In the last photo, for exampldse, we have what looks like, to me, a rock casting a shadow on the ground, with a higher area of the ground getting out of the shadow and catching the light. It may be something else, but to me, a humanoid figure should look at least a little like a human, and that means two legs, a torso, two arms and a head, and there is nothing on that photo that reminds me of any of those elements of a humanoid figure.

so, its been a while, but b4 anything else, i like to greet everybody here in ats a happy new year in advance, am sure tomorrow night i wont be able to tap on these k-boards.

and so here's one to cap 2010 with...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1ab06c0bde1e.jpg[/atsimg]
Just a note for the mod.
maybe this time, may i ask you a little favor, if you can indulge yourself to look at these images in the google format, just colour your world once in a while...
Now this "guy" is about 7 meters tall, and its a humanoid in form...the rest is up for grabs.

the second image is my favorite martian,
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1102ed712e31.jpg[/atsimg]

whats the catch?
he's wearing a nice pair of sneakers...nike perhaps or adidas,well whatever, but one thing is for sure, its not made in china, its made in Mars...Happy new year

edit on 30-12-2010 by alphaMegas because: (no reason given)