Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Of course they're meant to wound and kill. Anyone who justifies the use of firearms otherwise is missing the point of the tool to begin with. But this world, the whole world, works on cause and effect, with that goes the responsibility of being the one who causes the effect.

If someone breaks into my home in the dead of night, what are his intentions? What should I assume of his character? It's the middle of the night, he KNOWS my family and I are home. If he were just there to steal stuff, wouldn't he wanna do it during a time when there was no one home in order to maximize the loot?

In this scenario, I'm going to grab my shotgun, depending on level of co-operation he'll either leave my house in handcuffs, but otherwise ok, or he'll leave in a bag. There's responsibility on both ends of that though. I am a man simply protecting my family and property from invasion. I have a responsibility as the man of the house to do so. I also have a responsibility to observe all of my other principles. If I see the criminal in my home is it within the realm of my principles to nail the guy without warning? No. Some would have no problem with this, and I can understand and even empathize with that position. But I am at least going to give the guy the chance to keep his life, if he chooses to escalate the level of his criminal activity by threatening me or my family further(having a weapon of his own, attempting to hurt family members, attempting to take me out) then I'm not going to be very forgiving. That's just self defense.

Originally posted by Freeborn
...
So please explain why having an armed population would deter foreign invaders?

Obviously you are not very well versed in history, the Japanese did not invade the U.S. mainland because among other reasons they knew that millions of Americans were armed and were trained in the use of firearms.

Also, armed citizens are not armed just for outside invaders, but for the possibility that their government might become dictatorial. The forefathers of the U.S. explained this very well.

For those not very well versed with U.S. history, the British tried their best to disarm Americans, and even in some instances they were able to do it. This is also a great part of the reason why the forefathers explained that the main reason for ALL citizens to be armed was to stop their government from becoming dictatorial. They experienced the British attempt to disarm the citizens to keep them under dictatorial control.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

Your signature says it best.

I have watched as TPTB 1942 plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies.....

I have seen the result as we went from a self-reliant cohesive society to a very fractured corrupt society with a "you owe me" attitude.

We now have several generations of people who have been taught to rely on the "nanny state" instead of on their friends and neighbors. We have a society that has no real identity as a nation. This is not only here in the USA but also in the EU. And we have a younger generation that has been taught guns not people are the cause of problems. More of the typical "Its not my fault, I blame Mommy and Daddy.. the neighbors... the land owner..." mentality so beloved of ambulance chasing lawyers.

I see the fight not as an ideology fight but a clear indication of brain washing by TPTB owned media and education system.

Start thinking out side the cage they are about to slam shut please.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


If you have taken the time to read my posts in this thread you will be aware that I fully understand why The Right To Bear Arms is an integral part of US culture and psyche.

But the UK is different.

If guns were more readily available here we would have more gun related deaths and crime.

We simply don't want or need any relaxation of our gun laws.

It is entirely right and proper that the US does as it see's fit regarding their own gun laws.

Ok america and your 2nd amendment

If these are your god given inalienable rights , God didnt create guns , so therefore it is not a god given right to have one !

the more guns there are in the world , the more people live in fear of the next man.

If our planet ever wants to get anywhere close to a utopia , we need to heavily regulate the mass production , sale and ownership of firearms , which are not for self defense , A guns primary function is to Kill, if a gun was made for defense then it would be a gun which has a bullet proof body shield attached to it which you can hide behind.

It is obtusely asinine to assume that abolishing guns will remove them from the bad guys hands... and furthermore, the OP strikes me as someone who has never been in a situation where one was needed. The bottom line is this.
Guns are meant for one thing: Killing.
People need to be able to protect themselves no matter what.
Take our guns away, then you will say, knives should be outlawed to.
Hey! Those staves and mortars look questionable. Lock them up too.
Next thing you know, we will look just like the bleating sheep who whine about guns.
The sheep who are getting slaughtered because there is no way to protect themselves, awaiting an unwanted fate that could have been avoided, had there been a way to substantially arm themselves.

This is not directed at any one person but it just seems odd to me that in a group that says they distrust most if not all governments would turn around and say they have complete trust in that same government to prtotect them and would take away their only chance to forciably remove them if they wont step down peacefully

reply to post by sapien82


The basis of the second amendment is the inherent, god given right to defend your life. Every creature on earth, from the grub worm to the most dangerous of predators have the right to defend themselves. It is the natural sense of self preservation. Humans don't have claws or big sharp teeth, but we have brains to make tools. Guns are tools in the service of protecting our lives.

I recommend the book "50 Questions on the Natural Law: What it is, and why we need it".

reply to post by lastrebel


Whilst we all hold contempt for our collective governments , we are still to have faith in the one thing that brought us out of the dark ages. We are supposed to have faith in our governments that they can be trusted to do the right thing in the protection and maintenance of our rights.
So yes we can trust our governments with gun control , afterall we seem to trust them with everything else and do nothing about it fi anything goes wrong so why worry !

reply to post by projectvxn


Defense and attack are two entirely different things

to defend oneselve you would undoubtedly use a sheild of some creation
not a lethal weapon.

reply to post by sapien82


No. To defend yourself you do what is necessary to stop the attack on you. Including counter attack. Fighting isn't about playing nice and fair, it is about getting the advantage on your opponent. Anything short of that means you're dead. I'm not going to cower and wait for my attacker to find a weakness in my "shield".

You've obviously never been in a life and death situation, nor had to seriously defend yourself.

reply to post by sapien82

Defense and attack are two entirely different things to defend oneselve you would undoubtedly use a sheild of some creation not a lethal weapon.

And you are someone who has never been in the position to defend yourself.

I am a little old lady.

I have had a gun aimed at me by a thief.

I have watched my neighborhood be terrorized by a KNOWN criminal and the police do nothing even after my neighbor (29) died and another neighbor had his house shot up.

I am VERY glad I had a gun and was able to use it to chase off the much younger criminal who after three years of terrorizing my neighborhood has not come back.

So tell me how, IN a VERY dark WOODS at 3:00 AM some idiotic SHIELD is supposed to do what a couple of shots fired into the ground did????

Originally posted by kevinunknown
To me guns are inherently evil objects that have been designed to kill our fellow man and therefore are evil as is to use a gun to kill. Further to this there have been a number of high profile shootings in America were a gun man has committed multiple homicide or gang warfare has resulted in innocents being killed. Now with that in mind how can you possibly say that the right to bear arms is justified?

See, its this line of thinking that may one day lead us...oh who am I kidding, we are already there even with the guns. In regards to the shootings, people will still kill one another. In fact, a gun could have ended such shootings BEFORE innocent people were slaughtered. I think it is naive to think that criminals will not have guns because of a shredded 2nd. Police will still arrive at a crime scene with dead victims. People will still fight, maim and kill one another. You make it sound as if everyone will be good and think as you do if joe plumber can't have a gun or must jump through even more hoops. This is silly.

Of course, at least with guns, a small chance of rescinding a runaway government exists.I take it that the current V gunman in Florida has got you riled up?

Originally posted by sapien82
So yes we can trust our governments with gun control , afterall we seem to trust them with everything else and do nothing about it fi anything goes wrong so why worry !

That has to be sarcastic, right?

The same governments that make laws against people voting, laws regulating interpersonal relationships, laws regulating personal property, laws that put poison in the food and water, invade countries for fun, burn women and children to death for back taxes, hold a gun to your head to collect those taxes, fund medical experiments on unknowing participants, plan and wargame false false flags to justify war and the taking of even more control over the populations....

And that's just the stuff that's been proven and admitted to in the last 30 years. Don't even have to touch the "conspiracy" stuff to show how evil the government, every government, is.

We can totally trust the gov to do what's right. Totally.

reply to post by sapien82


personally I dont trust the government to pick up my trash on time, much less protect me. You are partially right though, the problem is we are too fat and lazy or maybe just too cowardly to do anything about it. If a person isnt brave enough to sign a petition or march in protest I dont see that same person taking up arms against the government. But the fact we allow it is the problem, not that the forefathers were wise enough to put the answer in our hands

reply to post by kevinunknown


you lost me at ripping up the 2nd amt. So your point of view could be related to the Georgia Guidestones.Everybody raise your hands if you want to be part of the 500,000 that want to continue living on the planet.Now,everybody that doesnt want to live amongst 500,000 raise your hands....yeah thats what I thought. I like the guy that posted on his lawn a sign that read my neighbor got robbed and killed with a hand gun because he didnt believe I should use my hand gun to defend him. Answer me this you bleeding heart wet behind the ears liberal,how many guns did Timothy McVey use to kill all those children women and men in Oklahoma?
As for your UK comment...They arnt so free.Why do they post and deleate? They dont have a 1st amt.
Tell you what, go live in Miami, Detroit, D.C. Phili, down town, go for it. Make My Day

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by ZombieWoof

 

Probably not, I mean going from the SS to a nurse is really quite a leap. You know going form a profession that is basically evil to one that is about caring, compassion and empathy. You could be right though, I don’t know how these things work.

But yes i do want to have your rights restricted and controlled somewhat.


[/quote

are you working with our government to seek our the us who have guns???? jus wondering

reply to post by Freeborn


And if you had taken the time to read the evidence provided you would have seen that CRIMES WITH GUNS in the UK have INCREASED since the GUN BAN. ( Caps are not to be taken as yelling, but rather to bring attention to the facts already proven several times)

The evidence from your own country shows this, and millions of British disagree with you and have been trying to fight the decision, and lies from your government on "gun control"...

Even many of your police officers have to be armed with fully automatic weapons to fight the INCREASE violence with firearms in your country.

Who is saner—the idiot who expresses that the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution should be abolished because it is obsolete. Those citizens don’t need guns to protect their families, homes, and rights. It’s obvious you have never been a victim of a criminal act like rape, robbery, or home invasion and you live in a perfect society where there is no crime. The police can not protect one 24/7 even though you may believe this fairy tale.
It’s obvious you never hunted to put food on your family’s table. Guns are evil and kill people was your statement—what about knives, homemade explosive devices that could be made by obtaining ordinary cleaning articles and mixing them together. There are so many weapons that one could construct to kill as well like crossbows, blowguns, the list goes on and on. For example look at the Federal Building Bombing (1995) that was done by mixing fertilizers with other compounds. For brevity sake I will not give anymore examples but those ex-military warriors trained by the US know so many ways to sabotage, kill, and maim without guns-therefore abolishing gun ownership would not stop the killing!

The argument that guns may protect citizens against their tyrannical government is valid ---look what Hitler did to the German citizens when he took power---took their guns so they couldn’t fight back. The Germans took away the French guns as well but thanks to the French Underground funded and supplied by the OSS in WW11 they managed to sabotage many German camps and saved countless American GI’s lives! Our founding fathers where wise beyond any expectations and they took history of mankind into account when they drew up the “Bill of Rights” Let’s go to the present scenario espoused by some Americans that the FEMA camps maybe for dissidents. So the government comes for a citizen and he is well armed with automatic weapons that are supposed to be illegal unless one has a permit. The very act of armed resistance will act as a catalyst to freedom loving Americans and the American Militia to act like Americans did back in (1775–83, American War of Independence). Americans despite the melting pot our country has become are freedom thinking and acting individuals either collectively or singularly who will resist and defeat all enemies dosmestic as well as foreign. Despite, our current Administration of left wing communist linked administrators our people have awakened to this threat and have responded at the last congressal election by voting in those they believe in the “Bill of Rights”. Granted the conflict is not resolved but we as right thinking Freedom loving Americans--- are working to restore our government peacefully --despite the left wing congressional people, ACLU. FAIR, and all the other terriorist organizations that seek to destroys us from within! Our culture will endure and we will be trumph in the end because we are armed and INFORMED!


I speak from experience as a ex-militay man who has fought for freedom overseas and as a student of mankinds history and laws for the last forty years!

This happened just yesterday I believe:



No one in this room is allowed to bring a gun. School board, City Halls, and county commission meeting buildings have these neat little signs that say no guns...

Those gun free laws created this possibility, knowing full well he could take over this meeting unopposed...until the cops got there.

If you listen to the reasons this man gave for his actions, his access to guns had little to do with his instability.
In France some nut took over a class room full of kids with swords...Yes, swords. I'm sure you heard this story.

Guns or swords aren't the problem. It's people. All you can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.