Growing backlash against TSA body scanners, pat-downs

Originally posted by Britguy
The whole "crotch-bomber" issue was nothing more than a marketing strategy to introduce the full-body scanners in the first place. They just needed and incident and, hey-presto, they have an immediately available solution to start rolling out everywhere.
If there were really such an imminent threat, we'd have seen these things rolled out sooner and faster but we didn't.
The next move, after concerns about safety of the devices was brought up and people were starting to refuse them, was to "enhance" the pat-down, to include touching of genitals and breasts on women flyers. The intention being to make it as unpleasant as possible and try to force people back into the expensive shiny scanners they'd just spent so much money on.

Now we see the head of the American pilots association and the unions at American Airlines and US Airways advising all crews to decline the scanners and opt for the pat-downs due to health concerns. If they have issues and are refusing to step in, then why the hell should the rest of us do so?

The whole idea that evil terrorists are dreaming up ever more Machiavellian and James Bond-esque schemes to hijack a plane or blow one up is absurd. Each and every one they have waved at us has been doomed to failure and unlikely to work from the start. Anyone spending 5 minutes in critical analysis should be able to come to that conclusion. The shoe-bomber, crotch-bomber and this latest laughable incident with toner cartridges of doom are simply there to sell us fear, and support an agenda against a new bogeyman / latest threat to life as we know it.

I think you hit it dead-on. This is BS, pure and simple. TPTB have found a stick to add to their arsenals of carrots, all to control us in the USA. Sometimes it takes an outside viewpoint to clarify things, thanks!

US citizens we need to DEMAND that the so-called "Patriot" act be repealed, and DHS be disbanded - I'd rather take my chances on some crazy terrorists getting through than on my own government being so heavy handed.

Excuse me, but GODDAMNED YOU W.!

Just get ready people . No scanner?
Double the staff for pat downs. A lot of pedophiles looking for a job.

All this aeroplane security to prevent them from being used as guided bombs...

If only the US Air Force did their job properly, none and I mean NONE of these "guided bombs" would make their target.

Suspect plane not responding to audible or visual forms of communication, headed towards a possible target, consider the fact that is "guided bomb" will kill all passengers anyway, shoot out an engine.
Get them to respond but still able to fly and safely land.
Failing that, shoot out the other engine and put it down.

The passengers in this "guided bomb" we destined for death, I am sure they would die happier knowing that their sooner than premature death was needed to prevent further loss of life.

If this happens a couple times it would be a tragedy, but I am sure the "terrorists" would no longer consider this a viable option!

I would highly enjoy the pat down next time I fly I will opt out of the body scanner and prefer the pat down... A little unwanted attention never hurt anyone right?? I guesse that is how the TSA wants us.

Do any of you guys know what the pat down entails?

Do they ask you to take off your clothes?

Do same-sex TSA agents do the pat-downs?

A few ideas:

Volunteer to take off all of your clothes, and then begin to take them off. All of them.

Ask to have a cavity search, but demand a woman (if you are a man) do it.

Encourage them to do it in plain site of other passengers.

Wen the gloved finger goes into your rectum, release the contents of your bowels onto the face/clothing of the TSA agent. Consider frontloading Hormel Chili, McRib sandwiches and metamucil cocktails three or four days prior to the planned trip.

Simultaneously void your bladder, while doing a lawn sprinkler-like movement in order to add to the effect.

In your confusion, step into, smear, splash and spread the feces and urine onto surfaces and people.

Would this be a venue through which to be civilly disobedient?

Would such actions take a psychological toll on the TSA workers?

Your thoughts, please.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


To add,
Why don't they search you at the local Walmart? Grocery store? Mall?
How about Sports events with up to 250,000 like at Daytona Speedway?

If we were in such a danger all the time, there are a lot more effective ways someone could hurt us with big numbers. This is a Big Power Grab that supports the very same Corporations that now have more rights than the individual.

There was an article discussing the possibility that frequent exposure to these Airport Scanners might increase the risk of developing Skin Cancer. For those interested in the article, here is the link:
Scanners at US airports 'may be dangerous'

Biochemist John Sedat and his colleagues said in the letter that most of the energy from the scanners is delivered to the skin and underlying tissue.

"While the dose would be safe if it were distributed throughout the volume of the entire body, the dose to the skin may be dangerously high," they wrote.

The Office of Science and Technology responded this week to the scientists' letter, saying the scanners have been "tested extensively" by US government agencies and found to meet safety standards.

But Dr Sedat said the official response was "deeply flawed."

"We still don't know the beam intensity or other details of their classified system," he said, adding that UCSF scientists were preparing a rebuttal to the White House statement.

Some 315 "naked" scanners are currently in use at 65 US airports, according to the TSA.

These Airport Scanners are a direct affront to the Rights and Freedoms we in the West are supposed to enjoy. To those who have no problems these Scanners, I ask you this: how many Freedoms are you willing to concede until you feel "safe and at peace" with a Government you still trust has your best interests at heart?

Originally posted by Rhadamanthus
I don't understand what all the fuss is about when it comes to the full body scanners personally. What further information could they gain by scanning your entire body? Can they do something with this information to hold it against you or something? I really don't understand what the problem is myself.

Then next time you decide to fly, just arrive at the airport bare naked and save the rest of us the indignity of having to exposed to some faceless creep? Oh, and while you are at it - while you and the rest like you arrive at the airport bare naked - personally I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with you doing so, we can continue to demand that the whole TSA charade be wound down so that the airline industry can start treating the rest of us like customers and not criminals.

On the other hand I believe that if you fly a lot, being exposed to that amount of radiation could be really bad for you as well. I am just trying to figure out what they could accomplish by scanning your entire body other then to make sure you are not carrying anything on your person that could endanger the lives of people on a plane or in the important in general.

A metal detector is a lot faster a far less demeaning - which is the intent of the soft porn TSA imaging machines. There is no point to the soft porn imaging machines to begin with that cannot be found under existing and far less invasive technologies.

Hell. I once could not pass a detector test because of a single packaged Advil tablet. The inside of the tablet was coated in foil.

So what makes you think you need to spend BILLIONS you don't have to require the citizenry to be forced into the Soft Port Security Industry so that TPTB can get their orgasms by watching how stupid and gullible the people are?

The idea that you can opt out is great even if they have to do a "pat down' on you as well but is that not another invasion of privacy as well.

This whole topic confuses me cause I don't know a lot about it.

What is to be confused about? TSA is a phenomenal waste of tax payer dollars and the technology is going to companies that are controlled Jewish interests (aka the Michael Chertoff's of the world).

The whole war on terror is an excuse to funnel "security dollars" into Jewish controlled economic interests - at the expense of the American people who already are fleeced to the tune of BILLIONS to support this core sponsor of global terror.

reply to post by WTFover
Wow - that sounded as if it was written in Tel Aviv? Am I close? I mean, Jews treat the Palestinians like the TSA treats the American flying public.

Same techniques. Same arrogant style.

So I guess you want American to become like Israel? A country where there are terrahrests under every kitchen sink and hence the Jewish government (er, ah) bought and paid for government of America by the Israeli's has a right and legal mandate to treat the American public like Jews treat the Palestinians?

There is really is no difference between the mentalities of TSA and the mentalities of Jews in Israel.

They are both a product of the same "War on Terror", after all.

reply to post by NorthStarRise


Ummm....Talk about fear mongering!

Anyway, I was just making the point that you do not have to fly, no one is forcing you at gunpoint to walk through a scanner onto a plane. It is a personal choice, period.

Other things to keep in mind are - you do not have a right to enter another's private property without abiding by their rules and regulations; there is no intrinsic right to board an airplane; and finally, it's not all about you, there are an estimated 7,500 flights in the air, over the U.S., at any given moment, and approximately 1.5 million people board airplanes in the U.S., each day.

If you believe you just have to fly, go buy your own plane and build a runway on your own property. You can buy a used plane for less than the price of a new Cadillac Escalade.

But hey, I don't have a dog in this hunt, anyway. By choice, I don't fly.

The answer to airline security is simple! Put a single shot, rubber bullet type of pistol on the back of every seat. Then leave us all alone! I dont need the gov't to secure the plane I'm on and neither do most Americans.

"Would you like a window seat sir or the isle sir?" "Sit me next to Habib and stop feeling up my wife and kids!"

reply to post by NorthStarRise

There is really is no difference between the mentalities of TSA and the mentalities of Jews in Israel.

There is 'some' truth in what you are saying. El Al was the first to pioneer a lot of these screening techniques in response to hijackings like the famous one that led to the failed raid on the Entebe airport, where Israeli Commandos ended up killing quite a few of the passengers from an attempt to retake the plane while parked on the ground.

While it could be argued that our carte blanche support of all things "Israel" has led to resentment against us in the Muslim World, it could also be argued maintaining a military presence in Saudi Arabia and Kuwaiit, after the First Gulf War has too. Even though we were invited by these Kingdoms to 'bolster' their defences against reprisals from Sadaams Iraq, the people of these nations, the average commoner has long felt disenfranchised in the political process within these nations and aren't necessarily as appreciative as the King and Emir when it comes to maintaining a presence there.

Now it's very true that Israeli companies have gotten a lot of 'Security Contracts' but so have a number of Scottish, and European nations.

I don't think there is any arguing that Israel benefits immensely from the "War on Terror" since that is a part of the world where the "enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Yet WTFover is absolutely correct that the airlines are private companies and as such have the right to set the terms of agreement for passage on their carriers.

What is slightly different though as opposed to say restaurants and shopping malls, is the vast majority of airports are built on municipal/government land, and the Federal Aviation Administration has long had a governmental oversight of airlines to ensure safety standards are met.

The FAA is rather draconian when it comes to how it dominates and lords over the carriers.

For instance when the Air Traffic Controllers walked off the job during a strike during the Regan years, Regan demanded they return to work, or he would have them all fired, and replaced with military personnel until new civilians could be trained to replace them, and they would be barred for life from ever working as an Air Traffic Controller again.

A lot of them thought Regan was bluffing and called it, but Regan wasn't. They all ended up fired and the all were barred for life and are not elligible for rehire as Air Traffic Controllers to this day.

Because Congress has the unlimited right under the Constitution to regulate Interstate Commerce, and all the Airlines are Interstate businesses, this is what has given the Federal Aviation Administration dictatorial say over the airline industry.

But, conversely it is also what made the Airports the ideal place to 'stage' the war on terror, and to make it seem as 'real' to the general public as possible, since the FAA can basically order anything it wants to, in order to regulate that part of Interstate Commerce, Air Travel.

Despite all that I am with WTFover that it's still a voluntary process to fly or not to fly, and I choose not to fly as long as these draconian systems are in place.

Air Travel is not a right, but I do have a right to resist unreasonable and unwarranted searches and seizures.

Most people insist that the government protect our liberties and rights, but the truth is our founders made it very clear, it would eventually fall, the lion's share of responsibility in protecting our liberties and rights on each and every one of us individually.

They are only inalienable when you won't let them be alienated from you. And indeed they won't be if you simply don't travel.

If more people simply refused to travel by plane, then believe me as the carriers hemoraged more and more dollars it would lead to more corporate lobbying of Congress to change the system by exerting pressure on the FAA, TSA and Homeland Security.

Now here is the good news, members of Congress travel by airplane all the time. They are only allowed to travel coach at the Tax Payer's expense, but because they travel so frequently the airlines typically automatically upgrade Senators and Congressmen either with their own frequent traveler miles, but more often because they are travelling on full coach fare tickets as opposed to discounted restricted tickets. (As I stated earlier I used to be a travel agent and handled the travel for several members of Congress).

So when the airlines get tired of loosing more and more money, trust me you will start seeing Congressmen and Senators cramped back in coach, bumped from their flights, and getting drinks accidentally spilled in their laps, and they will eventually get the message that way, and no Israeli or Scottish, or German company's lobbyist that sells the security tech is going to be able to overcome that with Golf Trips to Bermuda.

We just have to send the message to the airlines first.

In short it doesn't matter what the Israelis or the Al Queda or the FAA, TSA and Homeland Security, or the Carriers do, IT MATTERS WHAT WE DO.

Become part of the solution instead of part of the problem, just Boycott the Airlines, and every time you pack up the family truckster to go over the river and through the woods to Grandma's house, make sure to send the airline you normally would have taken a letter and a picture of your smiling family piling into the family truckster.

Oh and Grandma's Ginger Bread House too!

I've made the pledge to stop flying after my trip in December. Going through all the beefed up security at airports after 9/11 was already enough and now they want to slow down the process with these body scanners and invasive pat-downs. I've pretty much had it with all this 'security'...it is not necessary and 9/11 was an excuse to build up useless agencies such as the TSA. These TSA agents are being supported with your tax dollars.

And don't forget your eight times more likely to get shot by a cop than killed by a terrorist.
newsblaze.com...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yet WTFover is absolutely correct that the airlines are private companies and as such have the right to set the terms of agreement for passage on their carriers.

All good and well points, although I would like more data on the "European countries" and the ownership ties to Israel, if any. I am sure we would find that more than a few companies would give rise to the idea of a global Jewish agenda.

While it is admitted that airlines comprise private property, the issue of using government facilities means that the private property issues must be tempered by issues regarding the public good from a public rights perspective.

It is the Israeli front "War on Terror" goons that are behind the whole charade of "virtual strip searches" and other assaults on the traveling (and elsewhere) public.

Too many contributors here treat the assaults as if they should be not only tolerated, but endured, and then hint that the failure of one to tolerate or otherwise endure what has become insane levels of intrusiveness is somehow a mental defect by the person who is making the protest.

Without a doubt, the traveling public is far more at risk of harm from the interaction with the $12/hr TSA agent than they ever will be from some bogeyman terror effort.

Consequently - if you do not have to fly in the United States - by all means - let the airlines know that passing through a gauntless of sexual perversion is not an acceptable pre-requisite to boarding one of their aircrafts.

reply to post by NorthStarRise


You know politics being politics, I think it's only fair and realistic to concede, that many nations are pushing an agenda that would benefit them. Israel is certainly not the only entity out there when it comes to this.

Ultimately the problem with let's blame it on the Jews is that it obsolves us of, and causes us to abdicate our own personal responsibility for simply standing up resolutely to our own government, within the very real constitutional guidelines provided for us to do that.

Boycotts and pickets of airports, letters to airlines and representatives, all fall on us, and it really isn't the Israelis, Jews or Zionists causing us not to do that. It's our own laziness and apathy, and where people abdicate their own responsibilities that is always going to lead to a vacuum for some other entity to take advantage of by filling.

Further as I discovered with the five different census workers I encountered this year during my steadfast refusal to participate in the process of being serialized by a bar code under the Department of Commerce, that these are for the most part just people looking for a job.

Many of the Census workers were in fact grateful and appreciative that I took the time to politely explain some things about our Government and the Census and our history that they really didn't know, but were excited and happy to learn.

I know here in Miami where I live one TSA Screener has filed suit for harrassment by his supervisors and fellow employees for being a Homosexual, and indeed there appears to be valid evidence he suffered systematic harrasment.

So no, I don't subscribe to the more paranoid extremes of perverts manning the lines, for the most part these are very low wage employees, indoctrinated into using a rigid set of procedures and scripts, that sexual deviants who are usually highly intelligent people, would chaffe at, and bristle under.

When we start bringing things like worldwide Jewish Conspiracies, and armies of perverts into the mix, we risk a more serious and reasoned message that appeals to people considering their own responsibility in taking an active part in bringing down a detrimental, costly, corrupt and unconstitutional system.

I know ultimately like when I got those five knocks on the door from Census workers it was up to me, then, to defend my rights as a human being under nature, and my own freedom from being counted into an increasingly tyrannical and fascist system of corrupt and overly intrusive government.

I took the risk of the $500.00 dollar fine, and being arrested and prosecuted for refusal to participate, and I stood my ground, and fought for my own position.

No Jewish conspiracy or fellow perv can stop me from doing that!

Only I can.

Food for thought my friend.

Let's not forget that this is not a private company setting it's own terms and agreements. It is a third party forcing terms and conditions on an industry.

Originally posted by projectvxn


I love it when reasonable Americans revolt against government stupidity fueled tyranny.

TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check
www.signonsandiego.com...
(follow link to view story)

This is a link to one man's experience with TSA. It shows the bullying of individuals by TSA to gain compliance with their "enhanced" security measures. One of the stupidest parts of his story, shows what bumbling fools TSA employee's really are. This man is escorted from the security area by TSA officials, then is told by another TSA employee he has to return to the security area or face charges and up to a $10,000 fine. Idiots.

The toner cartridge "attempts" were directed at cargo planes, not passenger planes. Most of the threats TSA claims as a need for heightened security, are from outside our borders, yet WE are subjected to outrageous scans and body searches. This is just an attempt to de-sensitize us, to allow more violations of our freedoms.

My wife and I have 2 trips planned in the next 6 months, Vegas and Florida. We will be driving to both rather than be subjected to this stupidity TSA calls security.

reply to post by harvib


Regardless, it is not your property. Therefore you must abide by the rules and regulations imposed, while you are there, or just don't fly.

Originally posted by harvib
Let's not forget that this is not a private company setting it's own terms and agreements. It is a third party forcing terms and conditions on an industry.

Very true and a great point as well.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by harvib

 

Regardless, it is not your property. Therefore you must abide by the rules and regulations imposed, while you are there, or just don't fly.

Thank you for your advice. I am curious if this is the stance that you will always hold? To just ignore such an extreme invasion on someone else's property and business? Will you still hold your position when your property is the one being intruded upon?

Is your advice really not to complain despite the precedent being set? If this can be done here then it most surely can be done everywhere. Are you really in support of spending your life going through checkpoints? Being forced through radiation for your "protection"? Hell, what is to stop such intrusions in your own home in the name of "protection"?

The ideals you express and the "advice" you give are in opposition to anything that even resembles a free society. However, maybe you are correct and people need an oligarch that holds unlimited rights to "protect" the people. I just hope you and your fellow subjects have made sure that the oligarch you empower and transfer your rights to is working in your best interest and will always work in your best interest. Good luck to you.