Hey!...2012 Pole Shifters...Please read this.

A real quick question for the smart guys of the ATS-2012, Pole shift Camp.

I have tried to do some research on pole shift and its impact globally beyond the obvious, but I seem to keep running into conflicting ideas on the issue.

I was just reading this thread by "CUin2013?":
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is good but it doesn’t really answer the questions I am looking for then again maybe I should keep reading a little further.

My questions are:

(1) Is a pole shift something that really happens over a span of a few years only, and if so, does that mean that it is less violent than how Hollywood has portrayed it in the recent movie 2012?


(2) If it is violent, is it on the order of magnitude of say an (extinction level event), or is it merely something that for the most part makes life a pain in the ass for a few decades?


(3) Speaking of violence what are we looking at, assuming this takes place in the very near future; Earthquakes, Tsunamis, volcanoes on a scale never before witnessed in human history; or simply a steady rise in tectonic activity for a decade or so while the earth shifts?


(4) Finally is it not something that people can easily survive through by moving from areas of colder to warmer climate, sort of like a global treadmill where as the world shifts people just move along the surface over a few years?


Maybe Im not getting it, but from my perspective it just seems like something that can be dealt with by society. That in no way means a billions would not die, I simply mean that people would just have to focus on “going with the flow” so to speak. I figured the worst people would need to avoid while traveling with the earths movement are things like, newly formed lava fields, and possibly volcanic ash. At the rate of movement described I don’t see to many mega tsunamis happening on the scale of Hollywood if at all. For one the earth movement may be to slow to jostle the oceans out of the basins, though I can see underwater landslides causing a problem. Perhaps waves reaching at most a few hundred feet only.

I don’t know…Set me right if I’m mistaken and please forgive my ignorance on the subject, I’m only asking because it seems many in ATS are better at explaining such events than many of the websites I have visited.
If you can suffer me long enough to answer those few questions, I think it would do wonders to enlighten me. Also A few very informative links would be great as well.

Thanks again in advance.

Wow, don't get me wrong, flags and stars are great to be sure, but I'm really seeking an answer.
Thanks though to whoever flagged and starred.

Heres my small take on the subject!

Geomagnetic reversal

It would appear the Earth is in the early stages of what is know as a geomagnetic reversal, this is where the magnetic polarities of the planet make an abrupt switch, reversing there positions. Geological evidence revealsthat it has occurred before, apparently on a major cycle of around 250,000 years, with other possible ones occuring at shorter intervals( some believe there was one 13,000 years ago )
Calculations reveal that another reversal should therefore be expected any time soon, and the signs are that it has already begun.

The north magnetic pole first began to shift its location in 1904, as noted by Canadian scientists from the Geolab group, but since 1974 it has been wandering four times faster, by several hundred kilometres.

Geoligist Gregg Braden has stated that the earths magnetic field has dropped 38% in the last 2000 years and that this rate of decline has risen to an average of 6% per year over the last centuary. This strongly suggests that the magnetic field is dropping at an accelerated rate towards zero point at which the polarity of the earth will reverse.

Although many analysts of geomagnetic reversal do NOT believe that a magnetic polarity switch will physically alter the tilt or rotation of the planet, it is clear that huge effects could be expected. The temporary collapse of the earths protective magnetic field that would accompany the final stage of a polarity flip ( which some believe could occur very quickly - possibly within days or even hours - after a very slow build up ) could also expose us to a surpluss of cosmic rays, with unknown resuslts. In the worst case scenario, any huge EMP that that might emanate from the sun during this period could also result in the entire neutralising of all electrical equipment on earth. ( with obvious consiquences )

The interesting part now ( for me anyhow )

Exposure to increased or altered electromagnetic fields can have a number of striking effects on human states of mind, creating mood swings between elation and depression, and even stimulating epilepsy or hallucinations depending on the dosage. Some researchers believe this to be a result of the brains pineal gland producing natural ammounts of of Dimethyltryptamine, or '___', as it responds to energetic changes.
'___' is found in plants and in some Amazon regions is added to the Ayahuasca brew, known for its extreme and sometimes expansive effects on the human mind.
Speculaters believe that a huge rush of '___' production in our pineal gland could be stimulated across the entire global population in response to a cosmological energy spike, solar EMP or geomagnetical polarity shift, perhaps resulting in a mass out-of-body experiance that affects the entire population of Earth. Given that a change in the geomagnetic field of just twenty 'nanoTeslas'(nT) is enough to trigger epilectic seizures, a major leap caused by unusual solar flares, which can already raise the field by 500 nT, could clearly result in a very dramatic effect on civilisation.

But will we be brought to our knees - or raised to a higher state of being?

reply to post by Exforcesuk


Thanks for that post.
Though i have heard in several places that magnetic shift is a misnomer when people consider a pole shift, or reversal, but like I said I have had conflicting information.

As for as being exposed to harmful cosmic rays that answers some of my questions.
However the part about being in an altered state of consciousness, while it may be true, sounds like hopeful thinking by scientists. If we are to be at a higher state of being during such an event it would be IMO rather contradictory to the cataclysmic example that I'm actually referencing. But I guess we can hope for the best, I mean if we can go out feeling damn sexy why the hell not right?

Thanks again for the post I appreciate it.

If there is a magnetic pole shift, I.e., a reversal of positive and negative polarity...
All of the worlds electricity grids would malfunction.
Like one giant trip of the breaker.
IMHO, it would cause more devastation than merely an altered state of consciousness.

Seems that scientists have proven it's happened before.
I'm sure it will happen again.

I don't know what would be worse thought, pole shift or crust shift.

reply to post by havok

If there is a magnetic pole shift, I.e., a reversal of positive and negative polarity... All of the worlds electricity grids would malfunction. Like one giant trip of the breaker. IMHO, it would cause more devastation than merely an altered state of consciousness.

I am unsure if you are referancing to the point i made in my earlier post?
But i was not stating that the only effects of geomagnetic reversal would be"altered state of consciousness" i was merely offering this as an avenue for investigation into the many posssibilities or outcomes that may arise and one which i felt "IMHO" was of interest on the topic of geomagnetic reversal.

The point which i feal is most relevant here is that as stated:

Geoligist Gregg Braden has stated that the earths magnetic field has dropped 38% in the last 2000 years and that this rate of decline has risen to an average of 6% per year over the last centuary. This strongly suggests that the magnetic field is dropping at an accelerated rate towards zero point at which the polarity of the earth will reverse.

The decrease in the earths magnetic field along with the Galactic alignment and an increase in the suns explosive plasma storms will undoubtedly have many effects on earth, one of which i chose to highlight, however its highly likely that there will be more significant outcomes such as increase in Volcanic activity and a disturbance of the tectonic plates! to which outcome no one can fully predict at the moment but only speculate.

reply to post by havok


AHH HA!
There in lies my problem Havoc, thanks for pointing it out to me.
It would seem that amid my endless questioning of this type of event I have obviously misunderstood that there is a CLEAR difference between (POLE SHIFT) and (CRUST SHIFT)........Thank you!

Now that it is too damn late to edit my title, I'm mildly screwed; however if anyone else happens to read as far as this post, please let it be known that I want to replace the idea of "pole shift", with that of "Crust shift", or "Crustal displacement".

Now as far as pole shifts knocking out power...that sucks but then again how is it all that big of a deal? Yeah I'm aware that it kinda SH***y for those on life support and the lovers of video games and air conditioning, but beyond that I don't see the big deal. Wow that was kind of cold hearted of me,...My bad, I mean hungry man microwave dinners aren't all that bad so I guess I'm up the creek as well.

OK ok...Now what is the effects on us during a Crustal shift? Are we screwed, can we make it, is it fast or is it slow, and what are the odds of it happening? Are we overdo, or am I still confusing the two shifts again?

Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by havok

 

AHH HA!
There in lies my problem Havoc, thanks for pointing it out to me.
It would seem that amid my endless questioning of this type of event I have obviously misunderstood that there is a CLEAR difference between (POLE SHIFT) and (CRUST SHIFT)........Thank you!

In my humble opinion...
A pole shift 180 degrees would reverse the electromagnetic field and switch our AC (alternating current).
Basically what everyone in colder or even richer nations rely on daily.
Therefore, producing power straight to ground and basically ending modern electricity for a moment.
How long that moment would be is the question.

Now that it is too damn late to edit my title, I'm mildly screwed; however if anyone else happens to read as far as this post, please let it be known that I want to replace the idea of "pole shift", with that of "Crust shift", or "Crustal displacement".

Point taken.
Crust shift would probably devastate the Earth and seeing as it's 'constantly' moving already...just really slow.
If a shift of the Earth's crust would happen quickly, I think the Earth would actually stop rotating.
But that's another story...

Now as far as pole shifts knocking out power...that sucks but then again how is it all that big of a deal? Yeah I'm aware that it kinda SH***y for those on life support and the lovers of video games and air conditioning, but beyond that I don't see the big deal. Wow that was kind of cold hearted of me,...My bad, I mean hungry man microwave dinners aren't all that bad so I guess I'm up the creek as well.

You would be very surprised how many people rely on electricity.
Modern commodities are all made with it.
Sure, depending on where you live, you can survive without electricity.
But the chaos that would ensue just from the public panic would be devastating.

OK ok...Now what is the effects on us during a Crustal shift? Are we screwed, can we make it, is it fast or is it slow, and what are the odds of it happening? Are we overdo, or am I still confusing the two shifts again?

No confusion.
Think of it this way.
The crust has shifted before, creating mountain ranges and chasms.
But this took a long time and it happened (according to some scientists) during the creation of Earth.
If there was a crust shift that took months or years, not millenia, the Earth would be devastated.
Climates would alter dramatically and migration would happen by the masses.
That is, if the Earth is habitable.

What you are referring to is know as true polar wander in the literature. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question as to what would happen if it occurred since it has never occurred before. However, anyone that claims a TPW is a legitimate threat is merely fear mongering. Stereologist has done more research than I have on this particular theory, so hopefully he will pop into this thread next time he is on.

I think that the largest damage to Earth and us would be from the "shields" being down. The Earth's magnetic field shields us from the harmful radiation coming from the sun. Drop the shield and we are "toast" without proper shelter.

This would also have a devastating affect on plant and animal life - our food supply.

Could this also be part of the "global warming" we are also seeing? Probably, since this shield has been weakening for a while.

This is also likely a part of the weather anomalies we are seeing, as well.

It is all a big puzzle, we just need to place the pieces, then we will see what the big picture is.

CU

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Well The whole reason this thread was created was because of a post I read by Stereologist.
As such I was hoping he would give his opinion on the subject, though i think its probably quite obvious we would be in trouble. I would just like to know what exactly we could expect. Knowing that no one can really tell me "exactly" anything, Ill take ballpark.

reply to post by snowen20


A magnetic reversal may indeed cause chaos but the worst thing would be if our magnetic shield were to fail.
A crustal displacement ( unproven I think ) could result in, among other things, the oceans sweeping across the continents.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, none of us are immortal anyway. Its no big deal, the sky could fall on your head tomorrow.

Regards Midicon.

(1) Pole shifts take millions of years to take place. A pole shift moves at around a meter or so a year, which seems slow, but is 10 times faster than the movement due to plate tectonics. The scientific literature refers to this as a TPW, true polar wanderings. There are apparent shifts called APW, or apparent polar wandering. These are due to other effects such as the movement of the plates.

(2) Are they violent? Not at all for an individual. For a species it's a different story. The best understood TPW is from 800 million years ago. The question being asked by scientists is whether or not this TPW is related to the subsequent Cambrian events.

(3) There is no evidence that anything would be noticed in the short term due to a TPW. No TPW has been detected in 200My, except for a disputed event from 84Ma.

(4) The slow movement of a TPW means that there is nothing for any individual to do.

reply to post by stereologist


Thanks, this thread was waiting for you, by the way. LOL
I saw that you said in another thread that Pole shift was really a misnomer.
I don't really believe any of this will happen in my life I'm just interested in it. If you get a chance to enlighten me to the probability of actual crustal displacement that would be cool. I know Hollywood's version happens in the span of a few days. Just curious.
Thanks again.

The idea that the different forms are pole shift and crustal shift is misleading. The term pole shift is used by authors such as Hapgood and Hancock to refer to a crustal event, not a magnetic event. The pole shift concept was introduced to explain how it might be possible to have a civilization on the Antarctic continent. The idea was proposed based on old maps rather than on geological data. The idea of pole shifts, these crustal events, was shown to be false when plate tectonics was developed.

Pole shifts, the crustal events involves only the crust according to the old theory.
Magnetic reversals involves only the liquid portion of the core.

Thus the 2 types of events are different in many ways.

reply to post by snowen20


I finally saw the movie 2012. It's funny. It's exciting. I was a little disappointed that it resorted to the sort of character kill off normally associated with bad horror flicks. For example the movie would have probably been just as good if the Russian pilot and the dentist survived.

If we want to ruin a fun film by thinking of it in scientific terms then we want to consider what happens when the crust moves a large distance in a few hours. If someone is sitting at the equator, then they are moving at 1600kph. If the crust shifts then the crust slows down. Does the person? No. They have to resist the change in speed or fly off.

Wind

The two main causes of large scale atmospheric circulation are the differential heating between the equator and the poles, and the rotation of the planet (Coriolis effect).

If the crust had shifted as suggested in the movie, then there would be 2 problems. A major problem for the movie would be that the crustal movement would also change the winds. The plane would have been affected by the moving winds and would not have ended up where it was when it came out of the cloud cover.

That was a minimal problem relative to the other problems. For example, the RV is hit by ejecta from the volcano. Had that happened the RV would not have survived. The molten blob that hit the RV would have filled the RV with 1000C heated air or higher.

The cities are filled with cracks that drop huge blocks. How is that possible? A crack here must mean a compressed zone somewhere else or an Earth expanding in size. Why did cracks only form in cities? Why not else where?

It's Hollywood. It's escapism with no connection to reality. That's why I turn off the brain and enjoy regardless of how disconnected the show is to reality.

reply to post by Exforcesuk

Given that a change in the geomagnetic field of just twenty 'nanoTeslas'(nT) is enough to trigger epilectic seizures,...

The Earth's magnetic field is in the range of 30 to 60 micro Tesla. That's large compared to the 20 nanoTesla value. The Earth's magnetic field is 2000 to 3000 times stronger tan the amount you suggested.

I am curious to know where you got this value since it seems incredibly small. The Earth's magnetic field is small to man made fields such as might be created by blenders, fans, tools, and other electric motors.

reply to post by stereologist


Thanks a lot. Yeah I know it is a movie, but often times after making one of those kind of films, scientists come out saying how possible it is. Personally I feel that's just a ploy by Hollywood to get more people interested thus more people watching. Im one of those people who spend a little too much time thinking and not enough time being able to enjoy myself. Unlike you I haven't found that perfect medium between intelligence and the on/off switch which allows for he greatest intellect, Ill get there some day.
I also Like SciFi and typically I see a lot of authors using some interesting ideas and I like to know the science behind them. Personally I hate when I hear them say they are basing their idea on hard science.

At any rate, your going on my list as go to guys for info regarding this kind of stuff.
Thanks again.

reply to post by snowen20


One of the subtler problems with the movie is rate at which heat conducts through the Earth. Rocks are lousy conductors. The mantle flows, but it is quite slow. The upshot is that if there were a rise in the core temperature it would take tens of millions of years for that heat to reach the surface.

Originally posted by snowen20
A real quick question for the smart guys of the ATS-2012, Pole shift Camp.

I have tried to do some research on pole shift and its impact globally beyond the obvious, but I seem to keep running into conflicting ideas on the issue.

I was just reading this thread by "CUin2013?":
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is good but it doesn’t really answer the questions I am looking for then again maybe I should keep reading a little further.

My questions are:

(1) Is a pole shift something that really happens over a span of a few years only, and if so, does that mean that it is less violent than how Hollywood has portrayed it in the recent movie 2012?


(2) If it is violent, is it on the order of magnitude of say an (extinction level event), or is it merely something that for the most part makes life a pain in the ass for a few decades?


(3) Speaking of violence what are we looking at, assuming this takes place in the very near future; Earthquakes, Tsunamis, volcanoes on a scale never before witnessed in human history; or simply a steady rise in tectonic activity for a decade or so while the earth shifts?


(4) Finally is it not something that people can easily survive through by moving from areas of colder to warmer climate, sort of like a global treadmill where as the world shifts people just move along the surface over a few years?


Maybe Im not getting it, but from my perspective it just seems like something that can be dealt with by society. That in no way means a billions would not die, I simply mean that people would just have to focus on “going with the flow” so to speak. I figured the worst people would need to avoid while traveling with the earths movement are things like, newly formed lava fields, and possibly volcanic ash. At the rate of movement described I don’t see to many mega tsunamis happening on the scale of Hollywood if at all. For one the earth movement may be to slow to jostle the oceans out of the basins, though I can see underwater landslides causing a problem. Perhaps waves reaching at most a few hundred feet only.

I don’t know…Set me right if I’m mistaken and please forgive my ignorance on the subject, I’m only asking because it seems many in ATS are better at explaining such events than many of the websites I have visited.
If you can suffer me long enough to answer those few questions, I think it would do wonders to enlighten me. Also A few very informative links would be great as well.

Thanks again in advance.

Mate...if the sun can flip its poles in a short amount of time (under a year)....I am sure the earth could do the same thing....
science.nasa.gov...
It can be catastrophic if it happens in a similar way