Others : "For Those Die-Hard Conspiracy Theorists Who Will Refuse To Believe This,..."

Few ever have heard the name whispered of Michael Fortier.

Yet he was allegedly tied to not only Timothy McVeigh but Terry Nichols.

As well as the Oklahoma City Bombing and the rise of the alleged "homegrown terrorist".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9a413f6e7db6.jpg[/atsimg]

Yet the divisive nonsense of political partisan rhetoric keeps us divided against ourselves.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Oklahoma City Bombing : Others

When McVeigh was asked if there were other conspirators in the bombing, he replied:

"Because the truth is, I blew up the Murrah Building, and isn't it kind of scary that one man could wreak this kind of hell?"

On the morning of McVeigh's execution a letter was released in which he had written.

"For those die-hard conspiracy theorists who will refuse to believe this, I turn the tables and say:

Show me where I needed anyone else.

Financing?

Logistics?

Specialized tech skills?

Brainpower?

Strategy?

... Show me where I needed a dark, mysterious 'Mr. X'!"

Sounds more ominous than anything McVeigh could possibly write does it not?

More like a mysterious writer, bald, blue-eyed, sitting in a Government office writing a script.

A traitor among men covering-up the involvement of the actors in the False-Flag Operation.

Celestial & Terrestrial Globes by Newton and Son


Picking a spot on the globe with ghost white hands sitting in his office and making the decision.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You?

Just how far will we as American's allow ourselves to be herded through the slaughterhouse gates?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/53233b391cca.gif[/atsimg]

Our rights are being whittled away like a corn-cob pipe Grandpa used to carve up on the porch.

Sitting in his rocker telling stories of the Great Depression and how lean times were.

Prior to Pearl Harbor and being dragged kicking and screaming into a "European War".

Attack on Pearl Harbor


Raw Video: New Look at Oklahoma City Bombing


FBI Raid Hutaree Militia plot to kill Police Officers


It is like we as citizens have to bend over and submit to a tracking device shoved up our butts.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/117251a35119.jpg[/atsimg]

Oh wait, it's magnetic, and can be placed on our cars, without a warrant, apparently.

GPS Tracking Device found in Civilian car

From the lack of credibility of a true investigation to conspiracy theories flying across the Internet.

We have all heard various secret agreements, conspiracies, and murmurs of cover-ups.

But our Constitution is being placed within a shredder to protect us from whoever is guilty this week.

FBI Caught Spying on Student, Demands GPS Tracker Back


Few ever would be willing to give up their Constitutional Rights without a valid reason.

And no one should ever have to either because giving up our freedoms is paramount to treason.

If we give up our rights we are guilty of committing treason against ourselves and our country.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/556b54d98101.gif[/atsimg]

As amazing as it is Glenn Beck's most recent book nailed it to the wall of how it is done.

The Overton Window

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a12d12443380.jpg[/atsimg]

Partial Amazon Review :

A plan to destroy America, a hundred years in the making, is about to be unleashed . . . can it be stopped?

There is a powerful technique called the Overton Window that can shape our lives, our laws, and our future.

It works by manipulating public perception so that ideas previously thought of as radical begin to seem acceptable over time.

Move the Window and you change the debate.

Change the debate and you change the country.

The Overton Window is not new, Beck did not invent it, Joseph P. Overton did.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Overton Window

The Overton window, in political theory, describes a "window" in the range of public reactions to ideas in public discourse, in a spectrum of all possible options on a particular issue.

It is named after its originator, Joseph P. Overton, former vice president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

But truly neither Beck nor Overton actually invented this concept used for it is much older.

It goes back to those Secret Societes we love to speak of and untangle the intangible lies.

The game of who's lie works better to stage coups amongst the elite to screw the populace.

Political Currency : Secret Societies, Those They Blackmail, and the Corrupt Currency...

Our rights gambled away in a backroom deal of power poker between madmen.

How to Start Your Own Secret Society

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79804fce98c0.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

Rejected by the Freemasons?

Not bright enough for the Illuminati?

Burnt by the Hell Fire Club?

No friends in high places to get you into the Bilderberg or the Bohemian Grove?

Feeling isolated and powerless?

Fear not.

There is an answer...Why not start your own secret society to add an air of mystery to your life and instantly alter the way you are perceived by family, friends and society at large.

Learn the secrets of how to really influence people in business and politics by creating your own elitist fraternity.

Discover the basic requirements for creating a clandestine sister or brotherhood with the ability to control, govern and influence events at the local or global level.

Develop your own secret knowledge and hidden agenda while you plot to overthrow the powers that be through revolution and political or religious intrigue.

Pierre Plantard and the Priory of Sion failed but you can avoid making the same mistakes they did by understanding what it really takes to maintain and develop a secret society.

This book will show you all the requirements needed from choosing regalia to setting up a lodge, from electing a grand master to illustrating basic initiation ceremonies.

It will also guide you on how to take historical events, great works of art and famous names to mould them into your desires for global domination.

Yet with each step we get closer to the Hegelian Dialectic and the formula for the coup's.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Dialectic : Hegelian Dialectic

The formula, Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis, does not explain why the Thesis requires an Antithesis.

However, the formula, Abstract-Negative-Concrete, suggests a flaw in any initial thesis—it is too abstract and lacks the negative of trial, error and experience.

The same applies to the formula, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete.

For Hegel, the Concrete, the Synthesis, the Absolute, must always pass through the phase of the Negative, that is, Mediation.

This is the actual essence of what is popularly called Hegelian Dialectics.

And again we are betrayed by those who are allegedly supposed to protect us from harm.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/590107f347a3.jpg[/atsimg]

And the truth shall set you free...

I understand the point of your thread, as long as they change the issues they are allowed to change the political spectrum. They have made Constitutionalist appear as the enemy to our current freedoms and our government when in reality being a Constitutionalist is being an American. Believing in the founding principles of our nation does not make us crazy or a domestic terrorist, it makes us Patriots. Of course Constitutionalists can range from the people wearing the Statue of Liberty outfit to those Democrats who just want a fair shake.

Just 50 years ago if you said you loved the Constitution no one would even respond back because everyone else did too. Today if you say you love the Constitution you will get a handful of people talking to you and a handful of people whispering about how crazy you are. That is not American at all.

Our nation has changed and not for the better, when they are allowed to destroy the true meaning of the Constitution we will no longer know our own freedoms and will not be able to protect ourselves from illegal government acts.

Originally posted by Misoir
I understand the point of your thread, as long as they change the issues they are allowed to change the political spectrum. They have made Constitutionalist appear as the enemy to our current freedoms and our government when in reality being a Constitutionalist is being an American. Believing in the founding principles of our nation does not make us crazy or a domestic terrorist, it makes us Patriots. Of course Constitutionalists can range from the people wearing the Statue of Liberty outfit to those Democrats who just want a fair shake.

This is correct in every way.

Through the abstract ideologies, abstract meanings, abstract definitions we are being screwed.

Our choices are only limited by our perception.

Seriously.

We either have the power of our mind or we do not.

We however, are responsible for using it, and educating ourselves more so as to add to the wealth of our knowledge, and access it correctly, learning our lessons of both good and bad decisions.

If you see yourself as defeated, you are defeated, if you see yourself as victorious, you are victorius, you just have to find the perspective within yourself to shift so as to not be negative, and change the negative into a positive, the "silver lining" if you will.

Freedom, is often a misperception of people, it is an abstract idea, meaning not easily defined by everyone the same way, but everyone knows freedom, just not by the same name, meaning, or definition.

To an abused wife, freedom equals not being beaten by her abusive husband, and not living in fear.

To a student, freedom can mean no homework, and no chores.

To a manager, freedom can mean no foul-ups by the underlings, and a smooth shift at work.

We define our own version of what we see as freedom.

Freedom, like terror, or even "Government" means something different to each person within the confines of the planet Earth.

Freedom to me, means working for myself, making my own corporation, making my money work for me, instead of working for my money, investing properly, etc.

Terror to me, is the use of physical violence, and or the threat of such upon someone undeserving of it, self-defense is wholly permissible towards anyone threatening this against my loved ones or me.

Government to me, is a system of incorporated organizations, functionary units, that have a task to do, with people doing them, like a car (Government) and driver (Politicians, Law Enforcement, Judge) driving our country.

Government, terror, and freedom can be good or bad, depending upon which side you are sitting when they are perceived by anyone.

Lastly, freedom to me, is knowing what my Government does in my name, and knowing the difference between good actions, bad actions, and necessary actions.

Originally posted by Misoir
Just 50 years ago if you said you loved the Constitution no one would even respond back because everyone else did too. Today if you say you love the Constitution you will get a handful of people talking to you and a handful of people whispering about how crazy you are. That is not American at all.

Just 50 years ago if you spoke against the Constitution the F.B.I. would make you disappear.

You would be interrogated in a undisclosed location.

And if you did not cooperate you would mysteriously "commit suicide" by jumping in front of a train.

Or leap to your death from a hospital window like Frank Olson.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Frank Olson

Frank Olson (July 17, 1910 – November 28, 1953) was a U.S. Army biological warfare specialist employed at Fort Detrick in Maryland, who was at first said to have taken his own life due to depression.

Later it came out, in the 1970s, that he had been given '___' without his knowledge at a joint meeting between CIA spies and US Army biowarfare experts, who cooperated on biological weapons and toxins and drugs under the umbrella of MKNAOMI and MKULTRA.

This was said to have driven him to leap out of a hotel window ten days later.

Allegations pointed to the CIA having assassinated Frank Olson over fears that he would reveal the entire U.S. biological warfare program, as well as the chemical interrogation program, to the press.

We know the C.I.A. does not like to get their hands dirty and they outsource their murder.

Originally posted by Misoir
Our nation has changed and not for the better, when they are allowed to destroy the true meaning of the Constitution we will no longer know our own freedoms and will not be able to protect ourselves from illegal government acts.

You are right.

Our nation has only changed for the worse.

Due to treason upon our soil by our Government and a few select men of power.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I think I should let Barry Goldwater sum it up.

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

I think I should let Barry Goldwater sum it up.

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

Bravo!

APPLAUSE


This is nothing more than subversion of the United States for the ruling class and the United Nations.

You should add the links to your post in my sig, The H.R 1955 I think it is.. Homegrown Terrorist act... It is relevant to this post..




There is a post about it Here.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


You added it just fine.

Thank you for the addition.

It is truly a part of this problem.

It is because of the compartmentalization of America through each branch of Government.

And all of the agencies within each of them.

giving up our freedoms is paramount to treason.

Doesn't treason get the death penalty? Isn't that why Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building? Because the officials inside were comitting treason by defiling our rights?

What went on in the building is the question that nobody asks before labeling him a terrorist like they want you to so that you don't see why he did it.

the building contained regional offices for the Social Security Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).

Wiki

The more and more that the American Government kills off people that they label "terrorists", the more synonymous i find "terrorist" to "martyr".

Well well well....

You and the other posters here make a lot of good points...

First let me cover them as best i can

micheal fortier

Michael Fortier (born 1968) and Lori Fortier, American husband and wife, were accomplices in the Oklahoma City bombing and key informants in the trials of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Fortier helped McVeigh and Nichols move and sell stolen guns and survey the building in anticipation of the attack. Lori forged a driver's license for McVeigh.[1] In a plea bargain, they testified against McVeigh and Nichols at their federal trials and against Nichols at his state trial. Michael was sentenced to 12 years in prison and fined $200,000 on May 27, 1998 for failing to warn authorities about the attack, and Lori was granted immunity from prosecution. Fortier's fine was subsequently lowered to $75,000. [2] Michael served his sentence under an assumed name as part of a witness protection program.[3] He was released from prison on January 20, 2006 and entered into the Witness Protection Program with a new identity.[4][5] Legal analyst Irven Box surmised that his sentence was shortened because of good behavior, and that time served before sentencing was taken into account.[6]

An interview....

micheal fortier interview

The circumstances surrounding this interview will be explained at the end of the interview. It is more important that the words are heard, and heeded. OPF: Hello. Mike! How are you today? MF: Well, all things considered, I'm doing all right. How about you? OPF: Fine! Well, let's get on with it. Okay? MF: Sure, but first let me say that I am extremely disappointed in what calls itself the patriots in this country. OPF: I'm curious as to what you mean by that, but let's go back to the beginning. You met Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols while serving in the army. Did you have any common interests with them? MF: Yes, all three of us were marksmen and enjoyed shooting. We had a friendship that got us into a lot of conversations and, well, they led to our feelings about government. Terry seemed to have most of the information about what was going on at first. But, Tim started collecting information, tapes and videos and things, and sharing it with Terry and I. Even after we got out of the army we stayed in touch, real close with Tim, and Terry came along sometimes. Tim, when he heard about Waco just went bananas. He had this video, Waco, The Big Lie, and he showed it to me and says we gotta do something. He played me some tapes of a radio show by the person who made the video, that was Linda Thompson, the attorney. She said things like "we gotta take out government agents. No questions asked." Tim was really hot over what the government did in Waco.

read the rest of the interview... I found it interesting

bing/ msn vid

i found the word usage interesting... its a slant but very subtle...

now over the cover up...

I cant see it either way to call.... it can be done by an individual.... It is very odd that he names conspiracy theorist in the matter...

Most would rather have the legend to be remembered. he would have said he did it alone... With no help not said what was reported....

merely an untrained humbled view

the next part of this is the lead in to window moving... It is simply smart politics and power maintenance... It is the safe play not to fall out of power.... It goes back to your other threads....

recomended reading list- SKL's threads


The GPS thing chaps me... All it is is a complete violation of civil rights.... The police think they can walk with some of these new tactics... It is like removing kids without a warrant or statues to back up the actions in civil court... It is about money and power, not what is right...

It is the running theme here... I hope i saw it right...

Now to my personal opinion off the facts...

The day is coming will every american here and not online will be finished making their choices...

When this day will come, you will know how the traitors and Vichy are..

You make the choices now whether you realize it or not...

These are the only sides...

Its either the chains of slavery and servitude....

Or ...

Freedom for all....

where will you be sitting..

Dont get mad at your brothers here on this site who will fight.... they might even rescue you because you realize ( a little to late) exactly what was going on...

The choice is either or.... not and if when or but.... Choose wisely...

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I have come to a different conclusion or it may be the same depending on pov...

freedom-

I am allowed to do what ever I want...

As applied to society at large

my freedom ends a foot from your nose and your territory begins...

It is that simple..

I now go back to ranting....

All these guys are idiots it seems... whether its the militia, mcviegh, branch dividians, or osama.. this is the major bit of proof that they where patsies at best....

If you where planning any type of operation would you go for looks or real hard core damage... Consider the limited value of the targets hit versus what could have really been done... In the end the damage was facial and skin deep, not broken legs or backs...

All publicity stunts not real war....

That is the proof over the set ups... it is using obvious differences in comparison...

think of what the responses where vs what the accused may have actually accomplished... The two do not add up.... some of those involved (accused) have this thing called brains... the targets where way to transitory and of low value while much more valuable targets where available.

my rant is now done...

Originally posted by Brood

giving up our freedoms is paramount to treason.

Doesn't treason get the death penalty? Isn't that why Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building? Because the officials inside were comitting treason by defiling our rights?

What went on in the building is the question that nobody asks before labeling him a terrorist like they want you to so that you don't see why he did it.

the building contained regional offices for the Social Security Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).

Wiki

The more and more that the American Government kills off people that they label "terrorists", the more synonymous i find "terrorist" to "martyr".

Well, therein lies the difference between how I think, and how McVeigh thought.

First, I do not believe he was the only individual involved, he had accomplices, and other pasties.

Second, there was a covert presence around him, directing his actions, like the movie Arlington Road.

Third, he was stupid enough to get tangled up into their crap, and got tied to these idiots who commit treason.

Fourth, his judgment and or character, was judging those people as solely responsbile, it goes higher.

Up the food chain, into Administrative circles, as well it is segmented, compartmentalized, and they use deniability, in other words there is no papertrail, not one we as citizens will find anyway, and it will be worded in such a way so as to leave it open to interpretation too much and as well as a threat assessment and not rigging a patsy to his noose.

Complete and total deniability is how these events are plotted, planned, and pulled off.

Fifth, his view was that they need to pay, and while I can see eye to eye on that, it is the intent, as well as delivery where I differ with his views greatly, I do not see buildings needing to be bombed, I do not see guns as the answer, I do not see violence as something that will do diddly squat, except leave it open as a potential terrorist event, and as well leave a door for Government to use the event as a means to tighten laws, and conspiracy theorists an opportunity to misinterpret any sort of cataclysmic event as a False-Flag Operation, whether real or imagined, or even the Government using it to spin as propaganda towards some complete waste of bureaucratic power to shred our Constitution even further.

What needs to happen is more of these covert operations need to be caught and snuffed in the bud.

Meaning, any organization within Government, redirecting a "McVeigh" needs to do their job and arrest him.

Prior to the event.

And or they need to face jail time, the entire organizational structure, for failure to do their duty to America.

As well as charges need to come against the entire Government organization for treason via proxy.

Treason Via Proxy : It Takes Two To Tango, Refuse To Dance, and Stop the False Flag Operation

Unfortunately, we have no politician in office, willing to stand up and use their balls to do just that.

Nor are we likely to ever have that because I know no one willing to cross their own Secret Society agendas.

Without ending up as a "pseudocide" in the morning newspaper.

This stems from the different Secret Societies feuding and us American citizens being caught in the middle.

As well prior to 9/11 the inter-organizational feuds between the three branches of Government.

In a continual struggle for power, funding, and to be the lead in controlling America, which is why 9/11 happened, it was Bush and Cheney through the Project for the New American Century, more Cheney than Bush, staging a multiple level coup against all the other "players" within Government, and as well putting all of the organizational structures of all Governmental entities under the one and singular umbrella of Homeland Security.

reply to post by ripcontrol


The thing that chaps my hide is that these people within Government believe they are doing the right thing.

By re-directing these events they are not doing the right thing but becoming puppet masters.

Whether it is by intention or through a round-about means it still ends up the same.

Treason, committed, in our name, by our officials re-directing a cataclysmic event.

If you know an event is going to happen, you stop it, end of the story, you do not use it.

Using it like this is only a means of leveraging funding which is a higher state of fraud.

Meaning by allowing it to happen those who keep their deniability only commit treason.

And become just as bad as the men who park vehicles next to daycare centers.

The difference is their hands are physically clean but blood is still on them due to a lack of ethics.

I can only speak for myself but I see any Government Agent who allows an event to happen, through malfeasance, through negligence, through being silenced by peer pressure, through using the event as a point of leverage to gain funding, as being just as complicit as the man holding the detonator, and just as guilty as having committed the entire crime from step one to the end game where people die through a horrific series of planning which equals mass murdering innocent civilians.

The funding they get is only blood money at the cost of our freedoms and safety.