Does The Chronicle Project research prove Joseph Smith never heard from God?

According to the morman church:

The Lord inspired the Prophet Joseph Smith to restore truths to the Bible text that had become lost or changed since the original words were written. These restored truths clarified doctrine and improved scriptural understanding.

In June 1830, Joseph Smith began creating a new "translation" of the King James Version of the Bible. However, this was not a literal translation from one language to another. It was a revelatory experience using the English text. Joseph Smith had learned from 1 Nephi 13:20-39 and Moses 1:40-41 that important pieces of the Bible manuscript had been removed or altered over time. Moses 1:40-41 states,
And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt write the things which I shall speak. And in a day when the children of men shall esteem my words as naught and take many of them from the book which thou shalt write, behold, I will raise up another like unto thee; and they shall be had again among the children of men—among as many as shall believe.

Here is the JST Bible Genesis

CHAPTER 1
History of the creation.

1 And it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven and this earth; write the words which I speak.
2 I am the Beginning and the End; the Almighty God. By mine Only Begotten I created these things.
3 Yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.
4 And the earth was without form, and void; and I caused darkness to come up upon the face of the deep.
5 And my Spirit moved upon the face of the waters, for I am God.
6 And I, God, said, Let there be light, and there was light.


Now here is the material that was shown using the embedded Self Defining Hebrew System discovered already present in ancient hebrew. This means that each word is actually a description (see their research and how to notes) and displays its own definition, preventing doctinal translations.

www.thechronicleproject.org...

The Chronicle Project Genesis

v1. A chronicle: To produce actively, the supreme ones, with the renowns and with the planet Earth.
v2. And the Planet Earth had existed for a long time, without attention and in turmoil,
And darkness (is) above the face of the salt water ocean. And draw in (from an outside source), the supreme ones, air over the face of the that water.
v3. And so to declare the supreme ones, “So to exist illumination” (ignite the sun)
And so to exist illumination.
v4. And so to perceive the supreme ones, with the illumination...

Now the questions arise:

1. Why was this embedded system not revealed to Smith
2. Why did God not correct the words to match the system present in the language that HE created.
The JST is not meant to be a literal translation, but even in a non literal coversion, the differences are beyond acceptable.

What say YE?


Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

101 reasonable doubts about Mormonism
I would like to share this link and see what you think of it OP!
I disagree with Mormons.

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


I gotta be honest here. I think common sense proves Joseph Smith never heard from God...

I mean come on, an ancient tribe of Israel making it to the Americas when most of the Native Americans have repeatedly been proven to have come across the Bering Strait about 15,000 years ago... I mean no offense to Mormons but the claims made are pretty out there and have no evidence supporting them.

I will be honest regarding Hebrew finds in america. There actually is evidence of this. Just not supportive of the Mormon stories
Here's an example
www.hope-of-israel.org...

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


I've heard of that stone with the ten commandments before, it is impossible to date the carvings. Most archeologists believe it to be a hoax. Most of the rest appears to be recounting myth and historical mystery as if it supports their preconceived conclusion... That's not how science is done and the website is called Hope of Israel, hardly sounds like an unbiased scientific source.

Go from the churches! Run! Den's of evil! Listen to your own inner light.

You seem slightly unsure of that

I know that you keep promoting it, but I've personally found nothing on the Chronicle Project that says that THEY have anything particularly useful or reliable to offer, much less proof that Joseph Smith was delusional or a liar (which is the conclusion that I came to, after much study and consideration.)

Frankly, Smith started out semi-lucid and got goofier as time went on, which seems a pretty good sign of delusion. The most extreme of Mormon doctrine (the stuff laid out in that "banned Mormon cartoon") came out of Smith's later "visions" and contemplations, not the original one or the plates.

Inconsistencies in Smith's message, the radical departure from Christian theology and the church's focus on secrecy were among the factors that lead me to personally believe that Smith was not a prophet of God. A Christian doesn't need much more than a cursory examination of LDS beliefs and practices to recognize that it is incompatible with their own faith -- we don't really need "proof" in the way of someone else's interpretation of the Bible showing that Smith's reinterpretation was flawed.

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


Joseph Smith's own testimony proves he never received a message from God. He claimed the "angel's" name was Moroni.

Gabriel is the only angelic herald to mankind from the throne of God. That is the particular job of this famous Biblical archangel.

Seems Joseph Smith failed to listen to Paul:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Galatians 1:8

My point is, that if the chronicle discovery shows us the words that are actually there and Joseph was not shown those words, then who or what was speaking to him.
If it was the creator of the text as claimed, the creator would have shown him the accurate text.
He claims to be adding items lost, I'm fine with that, but the matching text of smith's follows the old KJ and not what is actually in the text. Should this not be a wake up call to people following the teachings?
Understand I am not anti God, I am pro truth, no matter how much that hurts.

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


I'm curious about two things OP! What faith are you of and what do you consider truth? People have different definitions of what they believe is truth and I highly doubt everyone will agree with the anyone's definition.

I am of the believe that if one assembles all of the information, and based on ALL of the information, one will then see what is actually present.
To ignore information on any side of any argument or set of theories is foolish. Everyone has a little truth.
Assemble it, and it will show the whole.
Truth does not conflict with itself.
Truth is absolute.
Many will say there is no absolute truth. That is the voice of one who fears the restrictions that truth creates for our safety.

I am a Jew, or Israelite, whichever term you know.

I also do not believe there are atheists, only intelligent people who are waiting for the BS to be cleared away, and the truth to be shown and they will flock to that truth whatever that may be.
If only everyone would leave their egos at the door and analyze all we know, we might find that.
Sadly that will not happen here.
We think wisdom is knowing what those we dislike do not. Rather it is the application of intelligent thought, no matter where it is derived.
As a whole, and non conflicting.

I think the only thing the CRP has proven is that ancient Hebrew is a lot more complex than we initially thought.
I tend to lean toward the Chronicle before I would lean toward the book of Mormon.

Speaking biblically, If Joseph Smith was wrong and being spoken too by an entity, it stands to reason that that entity was probably .............A bad guy...

Does it really matter? Their whole belief is just as crazy as Scientology, or most other religions.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Hey everybody,

MrXYZ, thank you for that video, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
On a more serious note, something like like is very misleading. Someone seeking the truth about Supreme Ruler could easily be mislead. I am happy it was banned.It seems that evil has no bounds when it comes to try and pervert non-believers.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Paul did not even know Jesus. What makes him so special?

The answer to your question is "no."

Joseph Smith's version has been proven incorrect by archaeology (the Mormons funded a lot of archaeologists, who were very grateful but what they found contradicted the church and the Book of Mormon.) While he certainly may have been inspired, it was not by a divine spirit who knew all the answers.

It's a bad idea to learn history or science from a religious book. I think you can learn useful ethics and philosophy, but not science or history.

Originally posted by shoulda taken the blue pi

Now here is the material that was shown using the embedded Self Defining Hebrew System discovered already present in ancient hebrew. This means that each word is actually a description (see their research and how to notes) and displays its own definition, preventing doctinal translations.

Clearly inaccurate.

The founders of this are well meaning people who were troubled by things in the Bible and wanted to resolve them. The answer is "there's a missed, encoded message."

If you've studied codes at all, it's pretty clear they have no idea what makes a code. If you study linguistics, it soon becomes very clear that they don't know Hebrew, either, and didn't study other versions of these books or study other sacred literature of the Hebrews of that time period. They really work to force the code and in doing so, skip over letter combinations that would make their results come out wrong.

Real codes, to hide their meaning, do stretch across words.

1. Why was this embedded system not revealed to Smith

Because Smith wasn't looking for embedded codes. His inspiration came direct.

2. Why did God not correct the words to match the system present in the language that HE created.

You seem to think that the very first language was Hebrew. It wasn't. There are much older languages, including extinct languages.

The JST is not meant to be a literal translation, but even in a non literal conversion, the differences are beyond acceptable.

Yes, they do show a complete lack of understanding of many things (including how symbolic languages and codes work -- and in particular a real lack of understanding of Hebrew culture.)

What say YE?

I wouldn't accept their translation. As they go through the books they're going to have to keep on adding modifiers to the "code words" and ignoring a lot of letter combinations (without giving any evidence of why they ignore them other than they can't make them fit into their interpretation.)

It's keeping them amused, and you are certainly doing a job advertising for them here... but it's on par with the Book of Mormon.

I'm no expert. It seems to me that we have always been curious about how everything was created. Up until recently religion has owned the monopoly on explaining this for us. However, the Age of Aquarius is here, or so I'm told. With that we are turning a corner in our understandings. We are finding that, even though it is still mostly theory, science is explaining the way things work. That is why religion is losing it's hold.

Humans are wising up to an age-old money scheme that has been religion. We know that the old western world order used religion as a way to maintain the masses and enslave. The NWO uses economics to enslave. It has given us science as a way to explain the world that we are so curious about. It has produced new technologies, not more advanced then the laser-cut stones in South America, but advanced non-the-less.

It still strikes a thinking person to wonder, "Where did we come from."

It is obvious that civilizations came before us that has ideas and theories that were advanced. Where did this knowledge go? Is it still around or has it been destroyed, just as ours might if a solar storm was strong enough.

There is a lot in history that religion does not answer. It goes deeper than Joseph wanted to go. He just wanted to make money and be remembered. He knew how people thought and how religion worked. It gave people an answer. Not necessarily the right one, but an answer can put your soul at ease if it makes sense to you.
Faith is powerful and men like Joseph and Brigham knew that as well as Paul of the bible. Any man who has started a religion has known that.

We are at a time where we are waking up. We no longer want or need a dogmatic belief system. We want answers. However, we have to be humble and accept that we are only humans. While we crave knowledge and it moves us forward, we do not know where it all began. We need archeology. We need to read between the lines of the stories of old.Not accept what we are told but study it understanding that it has been changed and manipulated throughout history. Where the real truth begins is deeper than I can find and I don't feel incomplete. I feel my soul. It is just as curious as everyone, but I am smart enough not to be duped by guys like Joseph Smith.

BTW I was a Mormon as a kid and I have no doubt Joseph started the church for the same reasons the Rothschild s started the bank.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Paul did not even know Jesus. What makes him so special?

Paul states he had met Jesus. And as a prominent member of the religious hierarchy of the Pharisees during Jesus's ministry I'm most certain he met the guy numerous times, and especially was present at the council when Jesus was condemned for blasphemy.

Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee when Jesus was ministering in Israel and Jerusalem.