A question on basic electricity and a theory

I have but a simple question and I am hoping someone here might be able to shed some light on it. I know how electricity basically operates, regular house electricity 120v/220v. The question I have is that I have always understood when you plug something in and use that electricity that the electrons basically travel from one leg on the plug through the object plugged in and back towards ground or the neutral side of the circuit. So heres my question, what prevents the power that enters your house from leaving your house after it has been utilized through whatever you have plugged in. Basically is there some way to meter the amount of energy that could possibly be leaving your house going back into the grid after everything in your house has utilized what it needs? I know it might sound confusing but it seems to me that we are being fooled into believing that the energy we use everyday and get charged for just disappears after it's used and is not somehow being recycled back into the grid and recycled into other areas which could open a can of worms to the average consumer? And if that is the case why isn't the energy that travels back out being metered just as the amount coming in?

And if I am being silly here or sounding like I am looking to deep into this brain fart let me know!!!!

It's a fair question.
My first instinct is to redefine all the terms
so I can construct an answer that makes more sense.
So please don't be put off, if it feels like I'm trampling the OP.

Car battery, two posts, positive and negative.
Positive is marked as red, negative as black.
Electricity comes from the red side, right? [color=gold]Wrong.

The so-called "Positive" side of a battery is actually an electron deficit.
It has a much lower number of electrons than the frame of the car.
When "connected" the positive side is actually drawing electrons into it, seeking equilibrium.

How is this true

... continued....

Well the devices we use, use electricity.

When you run a hair dryer it is running 1500+ watts of electricity, so the electricity is being used up.

Same with a toaster, or amp or TV or whatever you have running. Unfortunately the electricity is turned into heat or sounds or a picture depending what your using.

No electricity returns to the grid.

Pred...

We'll use a water wheel as an example.

The river flows south, but the top of the water wheel rotates to the north.
Electrons flow into the batteries "positive" side, but the "Work" (that's the actual term) is done in the other direction.

So on all the circuit charts it is show that the current flows _from_ the positive side.
That's true, at that level. Because a circuit is showing the components, wiring, and the "Work" being done.
But at the electron level the charged source is actually an electron deficit.
When one charges a battery, they are actually draining out extra electrons, cause the battery is full.

Second Point

.... continued ...

Alternating current, not DC comes from wall sockets.

Alternating current is like a wave that hits one end of the pool,
then bounces back and hits the other end, and bounces back, add infinitum.

So the primary question in the OP, is there some way that the current can pass back to the power company...

Yes. In fact _all_ the current passes back. Your wall socket is one end of the pool, and the electric grid is the other. The alternating current is constantly moving back and forth.

This is why so many devices that use DC (like a computer power supply) have their own converters.
Like a river that changes directions every micro second, the converter (or power supply) is capturing the work
from what ever direction, and generating a unidirectional charge. The reality is that every time we power up a computer we are adding electrons to the nation wide power grid.

The power companies have to drain these electrons to keep the drawing power strong.

Essentially, almost no electricity is being lost. No more than what is lost by a normal outlet with nothing plugged into it. Until that circuit is closed by hitting the on switch, the electricity is just cycling through the electrical lines.
Allegedly; some electricity is lost through leaving phone/camera chargers plugged into outlets (even while the phone/camera isn't connected to said charger, but its a very small amount. Pennies a month). I'm no electrician though. Just spouting what I know from doing my own home repairs.

reply to post by jaynkeel


There's no free lunch. If you only had a wire going into your house and no wire going out, your house, or rather the devices in it, would be unable to accept a charge. Voltage is based on charge differential. A negative charge won't flow into devices unless an equal negative charge is leaving the devices at the same rate (this isn't always true, things like batteries and capacitors can build up a charge, but the explanation offered above is useful for the general case). In order to maintain a constant voltage, you need to maintain a constant charge differential. This is accomplished by have the "in" wire bringing in a negative charge at the same rate that the "out" wire is carrying the negative charge away. It has to be a circuit, otherwise it's like attaching a device to a single contact on a battery; without the other oppositely charged contact to draw the charge through, no charge will flow. Think of the negatively charged electrons in your device: these repel other negatively charged electrons, so no additional charge will be able to flow into the device unless the electrons that are their now leave.

This explanation is simplified and generalized, but I believe it answers your question.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


So in a sense what I thought was happening is true? That power after being utilized is flowing back into the grid? If so why no meter to adjust for that reverse flow? And thanks for the fast replies everyone much appreciated.

Ah, the meter is accurate.
The kilowatt hours on a monthly bill
represent the amount of electrons your house added to the system.

These must be drained by "generators" back at the plant.


David Grouchy

reply to post by jaynkeel


You can't keep the charge because it stops the new charge from comming in. The electrons won't accumulate because they repel each other.

im not quite sure what everyone is talking about, just getting the jist of things. But i had a thought, and excuse me for not having any college knowledge but why isnt there not a way of wireless electricity? instead of anything(s) having to circulate or circumnavigate through wires? how come no one has thought to just do something more simple? as in a wireless system? same concept that we use wireless internet? juuuuus curious....

reply to post by achaiah86


They have been playing around with that I think some cell phones they have out now charge via a wireless kind of electricity. Simply by placing it on a pad.

achaiah86

This is going to sound flippant,
and for that I appologize.

Broadcast electricity exists, it's called light.

The real trouble is that our appliances are no more efficient than they were in the 50's.
Not really. Not by much. There is no money in it, and people wont even pay twenty dollars more
for a more efficient fridge, even when that fridge will reduce yearly costs by hundreds of dollars.

So to broadcast enough power to run even a toothbrush,
would fry everything and everyone in the room,
cause air is a natural insulator, and a
strong enough charge would have
to be generated to overcome
that resistance.

It would look like arc lighning and fry you every time you touched the fridge.

The wires provide a smooth highway for the electrons to drive along, and they are insulated so
we can touch them without becoming part of the circuit.


Practical evidence from personal experience

1. On the radar tower of an Aircraft carrier I held up a 3 foot long flourescent light bulb and it lit up.
Not full brightness, but very close. This from the ambient radar waves in the air.

2. On a tower of power lines comming off the the Nuclear power plant, and crossing the Mississipi river,
I was changing a light bulb. One of the 250,000 volt power lines was 12 ft away. When I reach around the back side to loosen a bolt, all the hair on my fore arms stood up.
I was reaching directly into the field of induction.

reply to post by jaynkeel


which leads me to my response, electricity as a power source, is a bit unstable as well as unsafe. we should be using what mass amount of electricity we do use and center that into a magnet/free energy source?

Originally posted by achaiah86
im not quite sure what everyone is talking about, just getting the jist of things. But i had a thought, and excuse me for not having any college knowledge but why isnt there not a way of wireless electricity? instead of anything(s) having to circulate or circumnavigate through wires? how come no one has thought to just do something more simple? as in a wireless system? same concept that we use wireless internet? juuuuus curious....

Nikola Tesla found a way, but there'd be too many ways of stealing power from the air. The object is to make money off of people. When I was living in Philly, Peco Energy didn't even read our meter. I kept getting these ridiculous bills, even after making my home "energy efficient". It was then that I found out that they averaged their customers bills. They'd actually only take readings once or twice a year. (I'm guessing their average was the highest bill I ranked up).

www.solidresource.com...

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Same principle of holding one up to a van de graff generator, or high tension wires right?

Yes. You do not understand electricity.

Electrical power is measured in watts. Your refrigerator uses a certain amount of watts every hour. Your electric water heater uses a certain amount of watts every hour. The appliances take power out of the electrical current which flows through them and the meter measures that.

www.otpco.com...

Feel free to not trust the meter if you wish.


Contrary to what many believe. Telsa's system did not transmit electricity through the air. The idea was to transmit electricity through the earth. It is a hopelessly inefficient system.

Originally posted by jaynkeel
Same principle of holding one up to a van de graff generator, or high tension wires right?

Bulls eye.
I added a second example
to support your point.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by Phage
Yes. You do not understand electricity.

Electrical power is measured in watts. Your refrigerator uses a certain amount of watts every hour. Your electric water heater uses a certain amount of watts every hour. The appliances take power out of the electrical current which flows through them and the meter measures that.

www.otpco.com...

Feel free to not trust the meter if you wish.

Not trusting the meter hits the nail on the head for me Phage. Which opens a whole other topic like:
You go to the gas station and fill up your car, or you go and buy something that is weighed in bulk measurement whats the one thing you always see on those scales and pumps? Seal of the bureau of weights and measures. Why something like that doesn't exist for utility companies is beyond me?

To the OP,
If one is looking for a way to steal electricity it has been done before.

This is bad, cause now everyone in the industry knows about it,
and all the following examples are very illegal.
Also the are easy to detect now.

One guy would remove his meter and attach it a couple of days before they read it.

One guy would put a magnet on the side of the meter placed so the "spinning wheel"
would not move and just point to the magnet. One day he forgot to remove it in time.

My favorite one, the case that went to court, and all TPTB buried the guy.
He had high power lines running over his back yard in Florida.
He hated it and complained constantly to the company
about noise, radiation, anything. Finally he took revenge.
He built a chain link fence in his back yard. It went no where,
enclose nothing, and just ran in a straight line under the power lines for a short distance.
He attached a wire to the fence, and hooked it to his house. The fence leached electricty off the field of induction 20 feet above, and charged his house all without going through the meter.
He almost won the case, but I believe he was made an example of.


David Grouchy