Choosing Right or Left a test of the human soul?

This sort of reminds me of the old joke about how Baptists do not recognize each other in liquor stores. One side claims to have a lock on morality then proceeds to ignore the sins of their fellow party members. The whole thing is ludicrous. Neither side is more moral than the other.

Then again, we live in a strange country where movies and games about killing people are ok, but showing a womans nipple is the ultimate sin. So, I shouldn't be surprised by it all.

Originally posted by Itsallinfun
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Generally speaking, enlightened people do not go about bashing other's beliefs and maligning the soul status of those with whom they disagree. An enlightened person would perhaps recognize that those on the left are not more spiritually fit, just differently polarized. I would submit that the left's support of abortion amounts to the support of murder in the eyes of many.
Just a thought.

I was waiting for someone to bring up abortion... I would view that as a womens rights issue... but okay... I can definitely agree that on the issue of abortion the Right has taken a stance that could be considered a strong moral stance.

As far as enlightenment vs polarization... couldn't you say in the biblical stories of the bible, that God and Satan are simply polarizations... and that Satan is no more spiritually enlightened than God? Again, I'm not religious at all... but it seems to me we have turned many issues of right and wrong, into issues of Right and Left... this way, no one is left accountable, and it's all left open to endless discussion.

reply to post by spiritualzombie

Guys, please understand, I'm not talking about the corruption at the top... I'm talking about the personal choices of the people at the bottom... Do you support war, anti-equality, tend to side with Big Oil over environment?

First you have to untangle all the blasted political sleight of hand. And then you find the different sides are not what you thought they were.

For example you put Big Oil on one side and the environment on the other, yet if I wanted to spend the time digging out all my references I can PROVE it is big oil that was behind the First Earth Summit and the global warming/Environmental movement.

The same with "sustainability" - the B1 scenario was written by Ged Davis a thirty year employee of Shell Oil.

Then you speak of "equality" ( i was discriminated against in spades because I was born before equal rights) Again a lot of stuff that is political hooey is done in the name of "equality" and it only makes the whole situation WORSE. As far as I am concerned it is a crutch and a weapon now. It has been three generations so it is time to just plain get over it and move on. The laws are in place use them ats needed other wise - shut up. We have more important battles facing us.

Charity - It does NOT belong in the hands of the government. Social Security/Medicare is different. Those should have been treated as pension funds and the @#!@ politicians that helped themselves to that money (to win votes) should be in jail like any other embezzler.

Pollution - that should have been treated as criminal trespass from the very beginning instead of being called "the price of progress" The plant next to the first place I worked sued for obnoxious odors in 1972 and won by the way. That was before OSHA and the EPA.

WAR??? I am with George Washington on that one. We should stay within our borders unless attacked. Again I think if you follow the money trail it leads to the banker/oil cartel who played both sides.

The Fed and Nazi germany:
Exxon (Rockefeller) entered into partnerships with Germany’s top chemical cartel members, BASF and I.G. Farben. The Bank for International Settlements, which helped fund the Nazis before and during WWII, was created in 1930 by the world’s central banks, including the Federal Reserve Bank of NY. Its creation was inspired by the Nazi government and its bankers. Its first president was Gates McGarrah, a Rockefeller banker formerly of Chase National Bank and the “Fed.” coat.ncf.ca...

The banker/oil cartel are very much FOR socialism - their brand of course. I think this is what confuses so many on the left. Just take a look at the WWF the founder and first president's wealth comes from the families major holdings in Shell oil!

“What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control...” search.marxists.org...

David Rockefeller: "The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." www.newswithviews.com...

2002 Rockefeller autobiography “Memoirs” where on page 405," Mr. Rockefeller writes: “For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents... to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as “internationalists and of conspiring with others around the world ... If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

Once you do the in-depth investigation you will see the Right/Left junk is used to manipulate the public so they do not realize it is the poor fleeced sheeple against the banker/corporate Cartel. As far as I am concerned Leftest social programs are an instrument for moving wealth FROM the poor TO the very wealthy!

This is what all your social legislation actually does to people:

With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government." www.uhuh.com...

Even worse the bureaucracies are packed with agents from the big corporations who are left strictly alone while the mom and pop competition is put out of business. The consolidation of the corporate cartel's market share is positively frightening. This is just one example: www.whistleblower.org...



To get up to speed Read:
History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job
farmwars.info...


DOLLAR DECEPTION: HOW BANKS SECRETLY CREATE MONEY
www.webofdebt.com...

A Talk by G. Edward Griffin on the FED
www.bigeye.com...

SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE
www.apfn.org...

reply to post by spiritualzombie


talk about over generalization..

Through the past 100 years "Left" leaning ideologies brought about the absolute worst in Humanity.. the rise of Socialism, Fascism and Socialism, all "Left" leaning ideas, brought us Mao, Stalin, USSR, Hitler, Mussolini etc.. Most would say because they were inherently violent they must really have been "Right" .. but fact of the matter is, "Right" leaning ideas usually lead to regimes that fought internally, not externally, and were often Nationalist or Isolationist in their affairs. Even subversive movement like the Basque Separatist, the Irish Republican Army and many more were all far-left leaning groups.

Being "Left" isn't all about roses, rainbows and unicorns.. every time, in the effort for "equality" and "helping Humanity" other Humans with conflicting views, or unfortunate souls in the wrong place at the wrong time, were destroyed to bring about "peace"...

You will notice also the Republican Party is not "Conservative" .. they are Socially Conservative oh yes, but in their government and in their policies they are left leaning Fascist. The only difference between the Republicans and Democrats is they cater a different clientele of corporations, and have social issues (even though social issues are never debated in actual practice, so there really is no difference besides masters and controllers)

Also, as you say 'Conservatives" care more about destroying than helping, you should know the US donates more money than any other nation to help the poor and weak, and on top of that the largest charities in the US are Churches/religious institutions and Fraternal/Sorority institutions... the absolute vast majority of which are Conservative based.

Perhaps you should be doing a bit of soul searching your self..

Staying out of another mans affairs is, imo, the greatest form of "Liberalism" there can be.. (true conservatism, ie, Libertarianism, Anarchy, etc)

Taking complete control of another mans affairs to ensure "equality" by reducing all people to a common lower denominator is, imo, the worst thing a Human can force onto another Human. (Leftism, ie, communism, socialism, fascism etc)

Okay... so it's completely equal on both sides...

I vote for whoever speaks the most peace.. you vote for whoever speaks most about war...
I vote for the guy who wants to make healthcare affordable for everyone... you vote for insurance greed to reign supreme...
I vote for gays to be treated equally, allowed to marry and serve openly... you vote to keep them in the closet
I vote for the guy who says women have a right to choose... you vote for the guy who says, get out of my life govt, but let's all decide for her.

Yep, totally the same...

There are no moral issue differences between these two parties.

It's like you guys can't even face an honest discussion on it. I see I'm the only person responding to the opposition, so maybe I just accept I'm in a room full of people who no longer have the ability to see right from wrong.

I am not saying Left is all sunshine and unicorns... but it seems like the salesmen on the Left are appealing to a more self-less, peaceful kind of nature... where the salesmen on the Right are appealing more to judgements, aggression, fear, and hate.

reply to post by spiritualzombie

I vote for whoever speaks the most peace.. you vote for whoever speaks most about war...

So you vote based on sound bites? One party says peace, the other party says war.. then the party that says peace votes to go to war.. But YOU think you did right, because you voted for peace, even if your vote eventually voted for War, and yet you still firmly believe it is in some way detached? Both parties wanted to war, and by splitting the populace down the middle it enhanced the fear because on top of general fear there is then an excess of uncertainty and confusion.

I vote for the guy who wants to make healthcare affordable for everyone... you vote for insurance greed to reign supreme...

Again an excellent example!

One party says FREE HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE! YAY! the other says HELL NO! .. then there's a "compromise" which turned out to be something completely different and both parties suddenly got what they wanted.. one party still pretends they didn't want it, yet their financial backers are going to the bank cleaning out the American peoples wallets.. We Insurance backed health-care.. the Worlds first Fascist Health Care System. Congrats mate.... I hope you feel your vote was really worth it.

And you still think, you truly believe, you're positive that you sided with the group of politicians that represented you.. little do you know, those same candidates gave you a health care package so rife with corporate influence and insurance greed and you have no idea..

Here's my tip for you: NEVER TRUST A POLITICIAN .. they are scumbags, the lowest of the low, they are on par with rapist and extortionist.. they say one thing and do another, a wave of the hand with flashy tricks while the other hand steals your wallet. They'd have you believe all the while they work for your best interest, but only give a damn a few months every few years when their election comes around. !$@ politicians, left or right, they don't care about you, about this country, about your well being.. and you should see the proof in their actions.. they promise you good schools yet we pay a bank for our education, they bail out the banks that own our homes, while screwing every day Americans out of their property. They promise health care and they give us some new age psuedo Fascist system. They say "tax break" but it only means the poorest of the poor because they are so numerous and the richest of the rich because they are the bigger donater. They say war for peace yet we had no actual mission. They claim "terror" so that they could rape our freedoms, subjecting us to embarrassing and degrading searches and seizure for no reason.

I don't care what party they are from, because no party represents me.. and unless you're a mega corporation, they most likely don't represent you.

Both sides are galloping towards the rise of the New World Order. I'm not going to get into the thick of who's worse or more open about this except to say that; even Obama's Science Czar, John Holdren, is pro forced abortions, sterilization, and mass depopulation. I guess you could say, he's the Henry Kissinger of the Left. Both sides have their devils. I'll let you know when/if I see any angels.

I guess there is no right or left. One cannot have the right without the left or have one side not know of the other half. It's a fine balance, really: Spend money to feed others in times of need. But save money for the rainy days. It's almost as if an intentional friction is being created for improvement of areas, such as the "human soul", if you will.

How far will a person go for another? Very few, I'm afraid.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


i believe we need as less government as possible, less laws socially, and government wise. That we need more freedom, the destruction of congress and everybody should be required to vote on all the laws, that we should have very minimal welfare, and no healthcare, care of the envirorment, more efficient energy, and we need to bring back the ideas of chastity, honor, glory, love, and all the old values, i also think each state should be a sperate country with a fed. gov that cares for the army and international disputes and disputes between the states.

I was a Christian for fifteen years. I got sick of all the war mongering I heard coming from the pulpits. Some thing I learned though, give to any man freely whatever he asks. "Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. " So I'd give money to the man who said he was buying food and I'd give money to the man who said he was buying alcohol, and if they both bought drugs, well, that's none of my business. We all make our own choices in this world. It's not my place to say how they spend the money. I feel sorry for the people who complain about welfare people. Their lives must be awful.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
Forget for moment that both sides take you down a road that leads to lock-down of the state and expansion of the empire.

Well going to the left is a quicker way to that situation. Going to the right to the extreme leads to anarchy and so ultimately a strong man would emerge that would lead to a similar situation.

It seems to me that when the Right continually supports war,

The Right was opposed to WW I and WW II (up until Pearl Harbor), a Republican presidents withdrew from Korea and Vietnam. Bush I started Gulf War I (with a world wide coalition) and put Iraq under a stringent blockade but Clinton continued the no fly zone and all of the sanctions that caused so much trouble for the people of Iraq. Obama is continuing the war that Bush II started, both presidents have had a "Mission Accomplished in Iraq" moment and they were both wrong- our fighting men and women are still in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, your statement was not as specific as my reply, so I would like to see you expand on exactly what you are trying to say, because it is unclear.

opposes the idea that their heard-earned money goes to help people on welfare or healthcare,

The opposition isn't necessarily that it goes to a cause you hold dear but that your precious programs presuppose that money will be forcefully taken- money that is hard-earned.

but sees no problem with those tax dollars going to help kill people in other countries

Paying for self preservation isn't a problem. You again are very general in your statement and you should be more specific.

... that we're looking at a major spiritual test.

The major spiritual test would be how individuals react to situations when presented with facts.

I mean in general... it seems the Right is okay spending money if it's to be used to kill people... but opposed to spending money on things like healthcare or welfare to help people... The Right covets their money so.... but are willing to make exceptions for death and power.

You can't covet your own property, your property is yours already so you have no reason to have feelings of covetousness toward it. The word covet is used when someone works to gain something they haven't earned- that would generally be a term describing the left.

I know it's the ATS thing to say both sides are equally bad, but when I'm having a discussion with an individual and he's telling me that torture is okay, invading countries is okay, we should consider bombing Iran... but welfare and healthcare is bad... And then, to top it all off, the guy claims to be a Christian... I'm just thinking... WTF, is this a test???

Self preservation is as much apart of a good morality as resisting people who want to take things from you with out you agreeing to it.

I'm an agnostic, but the more I hear the more I wonder if this Right vs Left is a test of us as humans... of our souls, and what we believe is the path to a better future... And which side do we gravitate more towards... Which side is your heart on? Anger, aggression, violence, anti-equality based on personal beliefs? Or peace, diplomacy, environment, and helping people??

The choice is more about valuing the rights and the responsibilities of individuals vs giving up ones individuality and self worth for the good of everyone else.

Anyone else agree? I would really like to hear the spiritually-enlightened side of the Right.

You many not have meant the tone you used- but you obviously hold many preconceived notions which would be difficult for you to un-believe.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

One of the first threads I ever started, but one I think about often. This thread was started 7 years ago, and here it is, still ringing true. The specifics change but the theme remains the same...

I wonder if this Right vs Left is a test of us as humans... of our souls, and what we believe is the path to a better future... And which side do we gravitate more towards... Which side is your heart on? Anger, aggression, violence, anti-equality based on personal beliefs? Or peace, diplomacy, environment, and helping people??

The fact that Trump is now president leads me to believe that as a people, we are regressing. In the last year we saw actual cheering at the ideas of huge walls, torture, and deportation. People cheered for solutions that focus on hurting people and dividing people.

I'm reminded of the story of the Two Wolves...

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.

“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

I have been feeling for awhile now that this right vs left thing feels like a moral test for us as humans. A test of our high level thinking vs low level thinking. Tests of fear and courage, empathy and apathy, love vs hate. A test of our one-ness.

I have no doubt, that individually speaking, most of us try to feed the good side of ourselves.... but on the subject of politics, these positions we hold effect not only ourselves but so many other people. Positions we support, people we vote for and the policies they push... that is the power of our inner wolves amplified.