Faster than Light Communication. Can someone explain how this wouldn't accomplish it?

reply to post by sremmos

Quantum entanglement is at the heart of the EPR paradox that was developed by Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen in 1935, and was experimentally verified for the first time in 1980 by the French physicist Alain Aspect.

link
en.wikipedia.org...


sorry bout the voice but explains theory

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Very cool I am going to look more into it, thanks for getting me started.

reply to post by sremmos


please understand my knowledge of advanced phyics is not from clasical teachings and i may use different terminology but i will try to explain to the best of my knowledge



just like the photons in this vid there are sub atomic and atomic particals that can be in two places at the same time
the experiment shows that photons leak in a wave function from both slits and can balence(block) or allow (light strip)
when you block one slit the number of light slits drops these particals are related to the wave functions that create them

xploder

reply to post by sremmos


to answer your question about distence
if you were 1mm the world would be massive if the world was 1mm you would be massive
light travels at the same speed regaurless of the size of the source
but if you were bigger than the galaxy you could jump faster than the speed of light in one hop
so distance is relitive to the observer


xp

i have an interesting theory that light travels faster in different circumstances
that in our solar system light travels faster than in space
some call it time dialation i more see it as a perspective change as it would not be observable untill you were out of range of most gravitational influences

xp

reply to post by sremmos


here is a real world experiment using the quantium entanglement process to
teleport a photon over a meter

The teleportation technique makes use of quantum entanglement. When particles are fundamentally linked in this way, performing an operation on one will have the same effect on the other, even if they are physically separated.

www.newscientist.com...

teleport me up scotty lol

xp

reply to post by sremmos


FTL teleportation has already been achieved, I will include links below, also it is said that NASA has a secret FTL radio system on the Mars Rover...

Several links to major news articles about FTL communications breakthroughs:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

httpblogs.discovermagazine.com...

www.independent.co.uk...

Also, this blog is from a man claiming to have worked for NASA and uncovered their FTL radio, you must go back to the beginning of his blog s for that story...

astroengineer.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by sremmos
Ah, thank you for this explanation, you are saying that on the particle level "movement" of an object requires the particles to "shove" each other? If we could see this effect (on the micro level) would it be like a wave?

Yes, ever seen a human wave on a stadium? You have to wait for the guy next to you to stand up and raise hands before you do it.

Well, in a way you are not incorrect, in order for relativity to mess up elasticity, the materials we are talking about have to fall under the rules of the standard model of particle physics. If we ever found one particle that didn't then your theory migth be possible (tachyons maybe ), but keep in mind other weird stuff that we can't even imagine migth prevent you from doing it.

reply to post by sremmos


I getcha now! Thanks. Yea this stuff is too fun. If I had the brains for it, I would have loved to have been a scientist of some sort. The particles 'pushing eachother' reasons seems like the most logical to me at this point. It seemed to me looking at the original problem that something has to 'happen' to make one end go up when the other goes down. I remember bill nye telling me through the magic devil box of television that a lever is just a simple tool, meaning that some kind of energy is being conserved? Here's where I get way out of my knowledge base, but that tells me that if energy is being 'conserved' then some kind of reaction has to happen within the material? of the tool? So there's something happening with the teeter totter that just looks and sounds magically fast to us but really its just fast but not instant. Yea this is my last post on this thread haha. Anyone else wanna work with robots when they were a kid? ahhhh, the good old days, when science was baking powder and vinegar.

All of the contributions in this thread have been awesome so far, I'm learning a whole lot when all I expected to happen was a mean physicist would tell me I was stupid.

I'm checking out the Faster than Light Travel articles/sources that have been linked

From what I've learned in this thread, my faster than light method could only work if I found a truly "inelastic" material which is not currently known to exist. Such a material may yet exist in the universe, but I won't play the faith game, when there is evidence of such a material my idea can be reconsidered.

reply to post by snusfanatic


I think that conservation of energy is at it simplest the path of least resistance but I am not sure (I'm also no expert). I'm really glad you got what I was seeing in my head, and I agree this stuff is a lot of fun!

reply to post by XPLodER


According to the video the entire light sphere is quantum entangled. My understanding is that only a pair of particles or photons may be entangled.

I will not use the term "teleportation" in connection with quantum entanglement. I think that was some overzealous publicist's way of sensationalizing a topic that wouldn't otherwise have received the attention it has. Teleportation is relocating matter at or above the speed of light. In quantum entanglement experiments, neither matter nor energy is relocated.

The mystery is by what mechanism one photon learns the fate of its entangled twin. One might argue that the event which created the entangled pair is not uniquely determined until one photon is observed. Observing one photon in the present retroactively determines what happened in the past. Thus, the polarity of the other photon is retroactively determined at the time of its creation, and that information is then available in the second photon at the instant the first photon is observed.

A mechanism for transmitting the information requires some sort of ether. In fact, the existence of FTL communication proves the existence of a preferred reference frame, and that removes Einstein's last objection to postulating a luminiferous ether (in his 1920 paper). The ether is immobile.

Instantaneous communication means the events of sending and receiving are simultaneous events at different locations. Special relativity holds that two events cannot be simultaneous at different locations in all reference frames. In fact, the Chinese reported that, according to clocks synchronized in the reference frame of Earth, their signal was received before it was sent. I suspect that means it was sent roughly in the direction of the constellation, Virgo.

The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is blueshifted in the direction of Virgo, indicating that our solar system is moving toward Virgo at about 627 km/s, relative to the CMB. That translates to a relativistic gamma of 1.0000022, and Earth clocks closer to Virgo should indicate earlier times at the rate of about 7 nanosecond per kilometer.

For a mechanism to reach back in time, it must have negative speed relative to the ether. In other words, it must propagate backward from effect toward cause. I believe that is true of dark energy. In my model, dark energy is an ethereal pressure wave, which propagates at least 20 billion times faster than light. Dark energy pressure waves are caused by popping cosmic-foam bubbles in the sub-universe. The cosmic foam of the sub-universe is the ether foam of our universe. As our universe gets older, the sub-universe gets younger. So from our perspective, dark energy pressure waves converge to a point where a new bubble wall appears and divides one ether-foam bubble in two, thus creating one Planck volume of new space in our univese. That is what drives the expansion of our universe.

I realize how ludicrous all that sounds. I assure, you each detail is developed logically at my website. To fully explain it, here, I would have to copy and paste my whole website.

reply to post by Phractal Phil


hi bud
i have skimmed your web site and will be going back for more

According to the video the entire light sphere is quantum entangled. My understanding is that only a pair of particles or photons may be entangled.

the example was to display one partical being physically in two places at the same time
as far as i know 6 particals has been entangled as a group even though the theory states 1 to 1

I will not use the term "teleportation" in connection with quantum entanglement. I think that was some overzealous publicist's way of sensationalizing a topic that wouldn't otherwise have received the attention it has. Teleportation is relocating matter at or above the speed of light. In quantum entanglement experiments, neither matter nor energy is relocated.

in the experiments of ping kio lamb he first entangled photons in a lazer beam then teleported them a short distance and showed their continued entanglement
i think the distance was only 1/2 meter but teleportation was used by the lead scientist
it was a big break through in its day
the photons reacted in entaglement after transportation

i was a long time ago i read the artical

im interested in the theory you have with the spacial foam and the expansion of the universe

dr lamb

Researchers at the California Institute of Technology, Aarhus University in Denmark and the University of Wales in Bangor first demonstrated the teleportation of a laser beam consisting of millions of photons in 1998. Now a team led by Ping Koy Lam at the Australian National University in Canberra says they have made the process far more robust and reliable

linky
www.newscientist.com...

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


It sounds like you are not yet aware of the Chine se announcementof May 20, this year. They claim to have "teleported" data 16 km instantaneously, in the reference frame of the "quantum ether". Knowing how the Chines operate, though, I take their claim to be a lie. If it were anyone else, I wouldn't question it.

reply to post by Phractal Phil


this is a much greater distance than i was aware of
if the theory is correct distance would be no barrier to the entanglement
i agree this china descovery/experiment would be veiwed with sceptacism

xploder

Originally posted by sremmos
All of the contributions in this thread have been awesome so far, I'm learning a whole lot when all I expected to happen was a mean physicist would tell me I was stupid.

What you did was quite the opposite of stupid. In fact, Albert Einstein often would think of things in this manner - "thought experiments" - about topics like the speed of light. He called them by the German word "Gedankenexperiment" (sounds like gah-dunkin-experiment). If your thought turns out to be incorrect, it doesn't mean you failed, it means you learned something.

Love your post!

This theory only works if the device transfering data had continuity from one end of light time to the destination end of light time.

Rigidity is of no consequence, the reaction at either end would be one of displacement or equal and opposite reaction.
A wire would also transfer data if the distance is greater than light could arrive, the displacement of electrons at either end would be simultanious when charged. Likewise, your teeter would simultaniously "totter" the end, as long as there is continuity in a length greater than the speed of light and further than light travels at it's speed.

So, a poreous density such as a log or telephone pole being struck sending a wave, would have a limited speed for the displacement is absorbed within itself along the way whereas the other example and yours have immediate reaction time, at least it seems to me.

Originally posted by sremmos
Let's say I have a teeter totter in the neutral position (level plank).

I press down on one end of the teeter totter. Does this not communicate to the other side of the teeter totter (through motion) at a faster than light speed? How is this not instantaneous data transmission from one side of the teeter to the other?

For instance, what if my teeter was somehow a trillion light years long.

My brain tells me light would not be able to keep pace. Instantly, a trillion light years away the other side would get my transmission instantly. Light shouldn't be able to move 1 trillion light years instantaneously though, so this would be "faster than light" in a meaningful way, actual communication.

Please explain why I'm wrong in a way that I can understand, thanks!

edit: by the way, I did do a search but the other faster than light topics utilized hawking radiation theory and other things that i believe to be unrelated to my own theory of "faster than light" transmission.

edit on 26-9-2010 by sremmos because: in order to edit my post

Originally posted by sremmos
Let's say I have a teeter totter in the neutral position (level plank).

I press down on one end of the teeter totter. Does this not communicate to the other side of the teeter totter (through motion) at a faster than light speed? How is this not instantaneous data transmission from one side of the teeter to the other?

For instance, what if my teeter was somehow a trillion light years long.

My brain tells me light would not be able to keep pace. Instantly, a trillion light years away the other side would get my transmission instantly. Light shouldn't be able to move 1 trillion light years instantaneously though, so this would be "faster than light" in a meaningful way, actual communication.

Please explain why I'm wrong in a way that I can understand, thanks!

edit: by the way, I did do a search but the other faster than light topics utilized hawking radiation theory and other things that i believe to be unrelated to my own theory of "faster than light" transmission.

edit on 26-9-2010 by sremmos because: in order to edit my post

Hmm.. Well if the position is the movement it is not instantaneous. If one side was up then an instant later the other side was up it would be but there is time in between and the message is observable. Even then I don't think it's relevant because it's not really two separate pieces working together its just the opposite end of the same piece. I don't know really though. It's a weird analogy.

But! I personally do think instantaneous (faster than light) communication is very possible. Also they will probably find that travel is too. I've always, since i was very little, thought that the theory that nothing can travel faster than light was incorrect.

Originally posted by Phractal Phil
reply to post by sremmos

 

Your seesaw idea won't work because the signal would propagate at the speed of a transverse wave in the plank. The speed of a transverse wave in a plank depends on the size and shape as well as the material. Transverse waves are always slower than longitudinal waves, which propagate at the speed of sound in the material. The speed of sound in steel is roughly 6 km/s.

There is no such thing as perfectly rigid material (elestic is not the word you're looking for). Everything stretches, and everything has mass and limited rigidity, so the speed of sound is finite in every material. The speed of light is about 50,000 times faster than the speed of sound in steel.

If instantaneous communication is possible, it probably will involve quantum entanglement. There are several old discussions concerning the announcement last May 20 about a Chinese experiment. They claim to have sent information instantaneously over a distance of 16 km.

Bingo =)

I was waiting for this answer as I checked the responses, and am glad to see it was explained in good detail.