7000 Citizens Violently Threatened By The State Of Indiana

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
reply to post by Lightrule

 

I'll be honest. I haven't read the whole thread.
Just a few posts. I've talked with demonreeper on a few issues.He's all government.But not a bad dude.
My stuff, I strictly deserved. Including the tazing.But I cant swear off the gov completely.I mean ive called the rollers several times to help me as well.They did.But they also tazered me.
Without someone, the really bad greedy ones would be running thnigs.

Are we damned?

Private security guards are better than police.

Until they are hired to kill you, then they become more of a hit team. I am still interested mnemeth, in how I would not make a profit living like a feudal lord in your world? It seems quite a way to get rich to me, especially how little people care about the conditions of workers that make they products they buy today.

If you'd think that the media would crucify me for doing so, let me let you in on a little secret about journalists: even in our world of governments and laws we get killed all the time for trying to uncover stories, and when we do uncover something, we rely heavily on the protection of law to keep us safe. If we didn't have that, it'd be quite easy for companies and individuals to get away with a lot more without the public knowing.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Demoncreeper

 

Violence:

a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse
b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
: injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage

Since arrest involves the use of armed threats and physical force, we can say quite literally that people who do not pay their protection money face the violent use of force against their person.

Sorry but where is the violence I was so eager to read about? Arrests are not inherently violent. It would help to both read the definition you posted and learn more about how arrests can be made. I myself was arrested. After meeting with the investigator, it was clear an arrest was coming. My lawyer spoke with the police at length and we all decided that it would be best if I went down to the station voluntarily and turned myself in. I filled out paperwork, got my pretty pictures taken, fingerprinted, etc. I was booked and charged and then I was on my way back home. Eventually I was convicted and served a few years of probation.

Can you please explain to me where the violence came in?

[edit on 25-8-2010 by cindyremains]

reply to post by Unst0ppable0ne


Stuff costs money - I agree.

Of course, my shoes cost money, yet I don't go out and hold a gun to peoples heads in order to pay for them. My shoes are an essential and necessary part of my life. Without shoes, my life would be extremely difficult. Should we socialize shoes?

I know this may come as a shock, but private security guards can be hired, private fire department contracts can be issued, private insurance coverage can cover you for damages, private roads can be built - and all the rest.

You seem to equate "stuff" with a need to violently loot people.

I'm simply saying, keep your stuff, stop the looting.



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by Lightrule

No my friend, it is you who is the one with a lack of knowledge... In this thread the tax that is on the table is INCOME TAXES... Now keeping that in mind allow me to share some of my knowledge with you...

Why don't you learn to read. I was talking about ALL TAXES. IF you fail to pay any type of tax, we loose our basic services. That was my argument.

You have no argument.....

Originally posted by Lightrule

If you want to live without these things, why don't you pack up and GTFO of the country?

Is this actually your argument? Please. Think about how silly this sounds...

Look at yourself.... just look at what you wrote. THAT is a sorry argument.

You are arguing semantics about which taxes I was referring to when I was reffering to ALL TAXES. I wasn't really discussing the article as much as I was dicussing the turn that this topic made.

Your foolish attempt is pathetic.

Originally posted by Lightrule
WRONG! An arrest warrant is the legal way they are able to KIDNAP you then hold you against your will. Also you DO NOT have to show up in their kangaroo courts if you know what you are doing.

How was I wrong? All you did was used the word KIDNAP because you are a scared little authority hating extremist.

What you said is exactly what I said, but you used a word that provokes fear and hatred instead.

The only reason you get an arrest warrant is when you fail to take care of your legal duties. They issue a warrant so they can legally bring you into court. Yes, to some people it would be agaisnt their will because they are scared little authority hating extremists.

I had an arrest warrant once because I failed to take care of a traffic ticket. I was in the wrong, I did break the rules of the road which could have harmed someone. I was supposed to be punished for it, and I failed to appear in court for my punishment. So they courts felt the need to have authority bring me in the next time they saw me so I can be punished for my wrong doing. They don't go out and hunt for you... they just take you in the next time they deal with you.

They sent me a letter in the mail telling me about my warrant, and because I was in touch with reality, I TURNED MYSELF IN. There was no voilence, there was no "kidnaping", there was nothing. I went in to court, I payed my fines, and that was it. That was my punishment for my wrong doing.

You people make me sick. Turning all this into some big issue. It's just a freaking warrant for your arrest.

"Arrest" doesn't mean you are going to prison. It means you are being "brought in" so you can be dealt with. If there was no such thing as arrest warrants, every criminal who ever skipped court could just roam free unpunished. THAT doesn't work!

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP TO REALITY. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS. What do you expect? You live in a world with criminals, and people who take advantage of others. Stop bitching and do something about it, or just SHUT UP.

Originally posted by Lightrule
This doesn't mean we have to pay a government to use a public road... Get over yourself.

-Lightrule

We don't pay a goverment to use roads, we pay a government to take care of roads so they are usable.

GET A FREAKING CLUE.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]

reply to post by cindyremains


More of you people.

I mean seriously, you're going to argue that arresting someone does not involve violence?

Orwell much?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Sorry man I could really care less about some old laddy paying her taxes as becomin a "burden" u say...yeah try all the illegal immigrants in this country then lets talk about a burden that should be removed by the way u talk u should be removed...sorry mr.president

Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne
You have to move the money around from different places to fund other things.

Do you move funds around before or after asking why it costs the gov $10,000 to put an incline at the end of a sidewalk?

Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne

I just understand reality, unlike you. STUFF COSTS MONEY. The firefighters and police officers that came to my rescue when I was in a bad accident, I PAYED FOR IT, and I'm glad I did. I am also glad other tax payers payed too, because I couldn't afford it by my self.

You do know that your accident and who helped you during it is none of our concern don't you? While I'm glad you lived and I hope you made a 100% recovery. How much you payed to have your life saved doesn't matter. Your own life is what you think it is worth. You said you couldn't afford it alone, you probably should work harder then, no? Do you think it is fair we had to help pay for your mistake and in turn accident? I don't. I'm also not going to turn around and tell you to pay your taxes so when I make my mistake I can be bailed out.

But lets look at it another way... the police and firefighters were not there to save your life, my oh my what an ego you have, they were there to protect their paycheque, you see without you they wouldn't get paid, you are nothing but a dollar sign to them. They don't really care about you, its a farce.

I live in a VERY rural area, 130km to the nearest town. In this village there are 202 people, only thing we got is a single pump gas station that sells some coke, chips, cigs and milk. We have a neighborhood watch and a volunteer fire dept. Everyone here is armed as there is tons of world class hunting in the immediate area. In the years I have lived here 4 on, 2 off and now I'm just under another 2 years of being back again. There has never been one report of a violent act against anyone. The RCMP were called ONCE but didn't even make it half way here before they were no longer needed.
I've done my share of work on the volunteer FD as well and while the biggest thing I have ever had to put out is a garage fire, I know from experience volunteers are capable of putting out some pretty big fires, even some of the huge grass fires we have had.

I enjoy the SAME protection as you, yet I pay NOTHING in taxes and our community sticks it out together. Wake up brother, there are better ways!

The next time you drive your vehicle to the store, why don't you think about the roads you are using. THAT is YOUR "government goodie" that YOU get..... according to you, all that will disappear. Say goodbye to your roads.

All the roads in our village were paid for privately by the people living here, its not that hard to call a private paving company, also they charge roughly HALF what they charge the government for private paving... Now think about that for a minute.

If you thought criminal violence was bad, wait until your fantasy becomes reality and tax payers can't afford police officers anymore. All your belongings will be stolen from you and nobody will help you.

If you are ever left for dead by a hit and run illegal immigrant, nobody will come to save you. Kiss your arse goodbye.

Look at how fearful you are, you actually believe if there are no police things are going to go to hell in a hand basket and fast... Yet the police are hours away here, and people are having no problem governing themselves, WITHOUT violence and theft... is the sky falling? No, you are just a scared little lamb that doesn't know it is being lead to slaughter. Wake up.

-Lightrule

reply to post by Lightrule


Oh thank you so much for proving my point! Your lack of concern for your fellow man at large is in fact exactly the reason why anarchism and mnemeth's stateless society would devolve into corporate feudalism!

You don't care about those except yourself and those close to you? Perfect, you'd be ripe for the taking by the corporations if governmental oversight of them was lifted.

And with that, since mnemeth seems not to want to actually debate the likelihood of my little lordship in his perfect world, I am done with this thread.

Enjoy all and remember, we the people are the government!

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Yes, he has a lack of concern for his fellow man because he doesn't believe in looting him at gun point.



[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by cindyremains

 

More of you people.

I mean seriously, you're going to argue that arresting someone does not involve violence?

Orwell much?

Well considering I just explained to you exactly how an arrest can go down with no violence at all...yes.

After all these pages, you have failed to explain how an arrest is violent in nature at all. I did a wonderful job of explaining how they are not. You did not debunk the premise of my story. You did not present a valid argument. You just said "Nyuh uh!"

It seems like you have had more than a few chances to actually make your title make at least a little sense and have not. Now if I am wrong, explain the violence in my arrest story.

What is even remotely Orwellian about any of it?

[edit on 25-8-2010 by cindyremains]

reply to post by cindyremains


99.999999% of the time an arrest goes something like this:

"put your hands behind your back"

that is a threat.

If you don't put your hands behind your back, the officer will then escalate violence until he physically forces you to put your hands behind your back.

Force will be met with force until you are dead or in handcuffs.

There are only two possible outcomes to an arrest.

You die, or you end up in handcuffs.




[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne

Why don't you learn to read. I was talking about ALL TAXES. IF you fail to pay any type of tax, we loose our basic services. That was my argument.

You have no argument.....

You are failing to see what it is I am saying here, the reason these people were threatened with arrest is because they didn't pay INCOME TAXES. This is what I am talking about, income taxes DO NOT pay for any of the basic services you are talking about. I can't help but pay my gasoline tax as it is included in the price at the pump, so I grin and bear it. No choice there.

Maybe you should actually go learn about which tax pays for which service, then come back here and try to tell me with a straight face that income taxes should be paid, or else our basic services will be cut off. I don't know about you but my water and gas bills get paid to a private company and has nothing to do with taxes... Same with my growing and buying my own food, don't need to pay a tax to do that.

So tell me, what are these wonderful basic services I have to pay all these taxes for, and what exactly is going to happen when those taxes aren't paid? I'm still gonna pay my gas and water bill, my power bill, and I'm still gonna raise my own animals for food, grow my own garden, and even shop for my favorite "junk" foods. All without a single tax. I'll still be driving on nicely paved and maintained roads, because hell without 400 bazillion taxes I only have to work 16 hours a week, the rest of the time I can go plant some trees on the boulevard. Then help my friends finish up the new outdoor football/soccer/baseball park, after after all I do only work 16 hours a week, I got lots of time to pitch in around town and mow the lawn at the park. it does belong to me after all, I helped build it, I enjoy it and I will help maintain it. Ya dig?

scared little authority hating extremists.

I see you use this so often, do I sound scared to you? Also it is our DUTY to question authority at EVERY chance. Without people like me, people like you would be real slaves. You would do well to remember that.

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP TO REALITY. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS. What do you expect? You live in a world with criminals, and people who take advantage of others. Stop bitching and do something about it, or just SHUT UP.

We are awake we are seeing how our government has ousted power from us and is using it to slowly enslave us. Here is an example; Do you own a house? If you do go read your mortgage, you aren't even listed as owner, you are listed as TENANT. The bank and government doesn't even consider you owner... Lame.

We don't pay a goverment to use roads, we pay a government to take care of roads so they are usable.

GET A FREAKING CLUE.

You think it is ONLY the government that can pave a road? Sad.\

-Lightrule

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by cindyremains

 

99.999999% of the time an arrest goes something like this:

"put your hands behind your back"

You are just making up a number to go with a scenario you are just making up. Is that really how you present information on a site like this? You just make things up?

that is a threat.

No it is not. It is not even remotely a threat. Please look up the word "threat."

If you don't put your hands behind your back, the officer will then escalate violence until he physically forces you to put your hands behind your back.

You mean if by resisting you present what can be perceived as a dangerous situation where weapons are involved, the the officer will use phyiscal force to ensure that you comply? Try not resisting and see how it goes for you next time. That does not make a command into a threat. Your actions dictate the reaction, not the command to put your hands behind you. More often than not, you put your hands behind you, they search you and let go. No thret.

Given your logic, my doctor has threatened me far more times than any cop. Would you like a list of things I have been told to do or else I will die? Hmmm, die for not listening or get shoved into a car hood for not listening. Which seems the bigger threat?

Force will be met with force until you are dead or in handcuffs.

Exactly. If you are forceful (threatening to a cop) then chances are he will be forceful (threatening) IN RETURN. Thanks for that about face.

There are only two possible outcomes to an arrest.

You die, or you end up in handcuffs.

Like I said, I was arrested. I was never cuffed and I am still alive.




[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

[edit on 25-8-2010 by cindyremains]

reply to post by cindyremains


Orwell - look him up.

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. "

George Orwell


Orwellian:

"Orwellian" describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the "unperson" — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments.


example:
Trying to argue arrests are not violent is orwellian.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


I think I can see why the MSM is never willing to cover the real bad stuff found on governments and their cohorts... It is because they have people like you working for them.

You failed to see what it was I was trying to say and instantly dove towards the most negative thing you could find in the post, is this how you MSM types feed? Did you read anything else in that post I wonder or did you just instantly write me off as some inconsiderate prick because I said I don't care who helped him?

HUGE insight into the mind of the MSM right here... HUGE. Take the most negative thing you can find anywhere and blow it up and make it a huge deal so that other people will only see it as an attack. Make it cause fear and panic so that anyone who agrees with this point of view are made out to be violent and dangerous and have no regard for the safety and happiness of others... Only you are flat out wrong.

Doesn't work on me.

*Edit - Not a single mention of my volunteering on the FD, no talk about how I believe we should all work together to live our lives better... Just the negative from one line of quite a long post... Just take what you need and fail to report the rest, something tells me the government loves your stories don't they?*

-Lightrule

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Lightrule]

I can't believe some people here are still hung up on semantics.

Arrest: Is it voluntary or compulsory?
Does the "officer" ask me if I'd like to come down to the station?
Am I free to not go?
Can I refuse arrest? What happens if I refuse?

If it is not voluntary, then it is compulsory. If it is compulsory, then the use of force is explicitly implied. If the use of force is explicitly implied, then there is coercion. If there is the coercion, then there is the threat of violence, bodily injury or death. The threat of injury or death in law is called terroristic threat - a violent crime. And to take someone by force, against their will, under color of law, is called kidnapping - another violent crime.

I hope to Jebus you people start to learn.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by Smack]

reply to post by Smack


We should date! I don't even care if you are a man/woman/alien. HAHA

But in all seriousness... you are speaking some VERY wise words, and there are people viewing this thread that should take heed.

Star for you.

-Lightrule

Originally posted by Lightrule
You do know that your accident and who helped you during it is none of our concern don't you?

People like you make me absolutly sick.

Next time I see you dead on the road, I'll just laugh in your face and move on. I wouldn't call anyone to come help you as you choke on your own blood.

Originally posted by Lightrule
How much you payed to have your life saved doesn't matter. Your own life is what you think it is worth. You said you couldn't afford it alone, you probably should work harder then, no?

You are so clueless it isn't even funny. It's pathetic.

So you think I should work harder so that I can afford to buy a fire station, a fire truck, fire fighting equipment, fire personel to be ready 24/7, AND afford and entire hospital, an entire nursing staff, and doctors, and ambulences to stand by 24/7, AND a police station, police officers, police training, and police cars, etc...????

A fire station requieres multi-millions of dollars a year to run. A police staiton requieres millions of dollars to run. A hospital requieres millions of dollars to run.

No single normal person can afford ALL the above. This is why they are PUBLIC services, and that is why the PUBLIC must pay taxes, so that these services exist for ALL OF US. The PUBLIC IS WORKING TOGETHER TO HELP EACH OTHER. If you don't want to be a part of it then GTFO of the country.

If you don't want to use these services, then leave the country that provides them for you with their laws! Or better yet, jump off a freaking bridge and die.

Originally posted by Lightrule
Do you think it is fair we had to help pay for your mistake and in turn accident? I don't. I'm also not going to turn around and tell you to pay your taxes so when I make my mistake I can be bailed out.

You didn't pay for my accident. You payed for services which save lives. If you don't want to pay for services that save lives, and probably your own in the future, then just die already.

Unlike you, nobody has to tell me to pay taxes so that basic services could exist. I will gladly pay my taxes so that THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE.

Originally posted by Lightrule
But lets look at it another way... the police and firefighters were not there to save your life, my oh my what an ego you have, they were there to protect their paycheque, you see without you they wouldn't get paid, you are nothing but a dollar sign to them. They don't really care about you, its a farce.

Look at yourself. You must be one heartless evil lost soul.

A LOT of police officers become police officers because they want to fight crime and get scumbags in prison where they belong (I know many police officers who would agree). MANY firefighters join the force so they can save lives (I was going to be a firefighter for the same reason). Many doctors and nurses chose their way of life to help save lives (I know many doctors and nurses who would agree).

Not everyone is a heartless like you.

Sure a lot of them need money to support their family, that is a fact of life. But to think the only reason these services exist is for money is a freaking JOKE. You must be a lost soul to even think such a thing.

Originally posted by Lightrule
I live in a VERY rural area, 130km to the nearest town. In this village there are 202 people, only thing we got is a single pump gas station that sells some coke, chips, cigs and milk. We have a neighborhood watch and a volunteer fire dept. Everyone here is armed as there is tons of world class hunting in the immediate area. In the years I have lived here 4 on, 2 off and now I'm just under another 2 years of being back again. There has never been one report of a violent act against anyone. The RCMP were called ONCE but didn't even make it half way here before they were no longer needed.
I've done my share of work on the volunteer FD as well and while the biggest thing I have ever had to put out is a garage fire, I know from experience volunteers are capable of putting out some pretty big fires, even some of the huge grass fires we have had.

Try living in one of the biggest citys in the world... LOS ANGELES... then come talk to me you clueless lost soul.

Originally posted by Lightrule
I enjoy the SAME protection as you, yet I pay NOTHING in taxes and our community sticks it out together. Wake up brother, there are better ways!

Me wake up?? No YOU WAKE UP. You are living in a freaking dream world. You are so cluelss I can't even fathom how you could think you have a grip on reality. You live in a small town with 202 people? Wow, try living in a town with 105,000+ then you might understand what services are requiered and the price of them.

The rest of your rant is not even worth replying too... You small town doesnt have quadruple over pass highway systems 100's of feet in the air that need to be maintained. You probably have ONE main road.

You are so clueless.... you are going on ignore for being a waste of life.

I am amazed to see some of the responses here. Particularly so from a generally distrustful crowd of TPTB.

Common threads among several posters is the peace of violence and... well... perhaps - surprise - that someone would choose to be beaten instead of just going along.

something akin to, "So they didn't pay their taxes. An arrest warrant was issued. Duh! Just pay the taxes!"

That in itself, I have no problem with- its a value based statement. I kinda summarize it as- "you're damned right you're going to pay. We Brown Shirts stick together, and if you step out of line we're going to crack your skull." That's understandable.

What I find more amazing is the peaceful mind who cannot / will not see the implicit nature of taxes, warrants as tools of violence. Can you picture these same members telling Pat Henry and Sam Adams, "C'mon man, it's just 1/50th of a cent. Pay the tax on the tea and go home."

The "served 'em right" type of banter reminds me that while there are sheep, there too are sheep dogs who work to keep the herd together.

Fortunately, there are plenty of wolves who can look and see plainly the nature, character and value that violence has amongst us.