ID if you use cash?

I admire the guy for walking out of the store, because I would have left all of the crap sitting on the counter, too!

reply to post by ThaLoccster

There is a difference between 'service' and 'retail'. Service establishments can refuse to serve for any reason; retail establishments are under a different set of regulations. You can refuse on certain grounds ('no shirt - no shoes - no service' is acceptable if such is clearly posted at the entrance(s)), but to simply tell someone you don't want to sell them an advertised item in stock for the advertised price? You're opening yourself up to a host of legal civil-rights charges.

Try selling a house on the open market and refusing to sell it for the tagged price to someone... you'll wind up being forced to pay the Realtor their cut anyway, and probably wind up in court to force the sale. It happens on a semi-regular basis.


reply to post by ignorant_ape

Yes, I am citing US law... in the UK your mileage may vary.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Well outside of restaurant experiences, I was a cashier at a convience store and I regularly turned customers away for pretty much any reason I felt like.

Like one instance a girl showed up, her boyfriend and I had problems awhile back. So when she showed up wanting a soda, I laughed in her face and said "nope". She said "what I can't even get a soda?", I told her not as long as I was at the store. She went into a fit about calling my boss, who happened to be there and I ushered her over. She promptly told the chick to get lost and explained if I didn't want to serve someone they had to get lost.

As far as I know a store is private property. You are not entitled to shop there, its not a right, its a privilege.

Outside of denying you service on a "civil rights" platform (color, disability etc) or just saying "oh we can't take your cash, pay with a check" then I see no reason why a business shouldn't, or couldn't refuse service to anyone.

Not saying they don't exist, but I can't find any regulations that say a store has to allow you to shop there.

Originally posted by The Theorist
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

Not sure about that, to be honest. There are a lot of businesses out there (Apple store?) that refuse cash transactions on security grounds and they seem to be within their legal right to do that?

I bought my macbook in an apple store (with cash) in the UK, no questions asked. I got some funny looks but nobody asked me for ID.

I was asked for name/address/etc for the warranty, but given I wasn't under arrest there was no legal requirement for those details to actually be mine. I wrote down my 'new details' so I could use the warranty if I needed to, and that was that.

As to the worries of whether the cash being used for the purchase was counterfeit, a quick swipe of the marker that stores use to test cash would have solved that question. No need to ask for ID on that matter. I worked retail many, many years ago at a Software Etc./Babbages. The only time we would ask for ID for purchases was if the customer was making a sizeable purchase, usually anything over $100.00 and using a credit card. The only time ID was asked for cash purchases was for warranty information. If the customer looked at us questioningly, we would inform them that it was strictly for warranty purposes. If the customer refused, then it was no big deal. They would take their chances on any items they felt the need to return.
As to needing to present ID for pre-paid cell phoness, I am not so sure. Perhaps this is standard procedure in TX. I've not bought a pre-paid phone in several years. The last one I did purchase, here in GA didn't require any ID. Another thought as to why an ID may be required for the purchase of a pre-paid phone is that drug dealers frequently change phones. Here in the area I live in there have been several arrests and raids that have been brought about the Drug Task Force intercepting text messages. If this is the reasoning behind the requirement for producing an ID to purchase a pre-paid cell phone it is absolutely ridiculous. It means that anyone who now purchases a pre-paid cell phone is automatically suspected of being a drug dealer, or otherwise having something to hide from the authorities, or are engaging in illegal activities. Which means that you are now guilty until proven innocent for puchasing a pre-paid cell phone. There is no need to show I'd to purchase a pre-paid cell phone here in the town where I live. I frequent a convenience store for my cigarettes, where they also happen to carry all the little accesories for "drug dealing". The Indian owned store carries digital scales, "jewelry bags", and just about everything else one would need to start their own "road-side pharmacy" business. They also carry a wide range of pre-paid cell phones. I've seen several people purchase them and never have to show ID for the purchase.
If I were to be asked for ID for a cash sale, I would show them the beautiful portrait on the cash and say you may feel free to call me mr. jackson, washington, lincoln, grant or franklin.

reply to post by ThaLoccster

All I can tell you is that you and your boss were playing with fire. That was an illegal act, and she could have easily sued the store and won a huge settlement. You apparently got away with it, but it doesn't make it legal.

Be careful; someday you might accidentally do that to someone who knows the law.

TheRedneck

didnt read entire thread but to me this looks like an attempt to start cash paper-trails.

kind of like how everything you do on the net can be monitered through the internet service provider, regardless of how secure your actual system is. this to me seems like an attempt to do the same thing but with stores, giving the government a portal/database to cash transactions.

for instance when they take down a drug kingpin or whoever, and they want to prove that he bought the things in his house with cash that he wasnt suppose to have or that he cannot account for how he obtained legitimately. they can nail him for tax evasaion easier.

if all stores do this, it essentially makes it useless to sit on a pile of cash.

this is could be phase 1 of the scheme to rule out cash. illegal immigrants and drug dealers and prostitutes etc, will have a hard time.

then sooner or later when the infrastructure is all in place, they will start revoking the "priviledge" to use their cash, for anybopdy with late court fees, outstanding debts, etc....

reply to post by TheRedneck


Since you've twice mentioned it being against the law, and I can find no regulations...could you point me towards the title and code that says a store has to allow you to shop there?

reply to post by TheRedneck


I can only speak for the UK, but there was nothing legally wrong with what he did. What it says about his character is another thing entirely.

My understanding is that as a business you have a right to refuse admission and to refuse service to anyone without having to explain why. The only legal obligation I'm aware of is that bars, restaurants and other licensed premises *must* provide free water to anyone who asks for it. Given you lot are a former colony ( :p ) I imagine it's not all that different over there.

I still can find no regulations that make it illegal to deny service to anyone outside of the Civil Rights act.

I did find this interesting tidbit...

The Right To Refuse Service Or Discrimination?

Despite the anti-discrimination protections in place across the country, some patrons of specific businesses are finding themselves being refused service due to the moral or religious convictions of the business owner or employee. For example, some pharmacists refuse to dispense birth control pills to unmarried women or emergency contraception (the morning after pill) to rape victims because of their religious teachings. These pharmacists are protected under refusal clauses that allow a person’s conscience, moral conflict or moral values to dictate their business practices.

So if a pharmacist can deny giving a woman birth control, because he's a catholic.

I think I'll stand by my argument.

They want to get your money. If you have lots of cash, then the IRS probably doesn't know about it, and big bro can't have that. Best way to force people into their system, make a law that no one knows about and turn them all into criminals.

This is nothing new --and it gets worse at Christmas time where the electronic "Giant," imposes a whole new set of rules.

Remember, you don't have to give your phone number to make a purchase. It always amazes me how many people give this info out so freely. Sadly though, it will be required soon and when this measure comes up, I hope everyone stands up and takes a stand against this. It's none of their business who I am if I pay in cash and if I pay by a credit card, they already have my information.

You can see folks everything is closing in against the consumer --slowly but surely things are closing in. And they're doing this little by little so no one notices (or not many) and if little notice, little will complain.

Cash is being demonized because cash is on its way out. Very soon. You can see it happening...businesses do "this" to avoid fines, consumers do "that" to avoid the hassle and everyone caves. They have to in order to survive.

You can totally see a cashless society being formed before our eyes and the Mark of the Beast is right around the corner. As soon as cash is gone there'll be no more "under the table" transactions and EVERYTHING will be taxed and therefore monitored.

Pay attention to the questions you're asked when purchasing something at some particular stores now and when the holidays come.

The cashless society is coming soon and so is The Mark. They just need a certain event to speed things up a little. I wonder what that event could be? Hmmmm!

Originally posted by TheRedneck

On every bill printed by the US Treasury there are these words:

This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private

meaning that no one in the US can refuse to accept cash for any purchase. If I want to pay for a new car in $1 bills, and the dealer refused to accept it, I actually have a legal case against them, in which I can own the new car without paying a dime. They refused to accept payment when offered, so I get the product for free.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
My response every time someone says "It's against Federal/state law" is to politely ask for Title and Code. If they can't produce it, I call them a liar and leave.

I ask politely ... Title and Code please.

thats weird. the only way they should ask for your ID is if you are paying with a credit card, not even debit cards need to because you have to answer your security pin number. even for prepaid phones you wouldn't have to. i sell them and never have asked for it.

My guess is that the CEO is a member of InfraGard and sent out a directive to all employees to comply with the following legislation that is pending in Congress:

Getting an anonymous prepaid phone may get a lot harder in the U.S. A new bill introduced by Senators Charles Schumer (D-NY) and John Cornyn (R-TX) would require buyers of prepaid cell phones to show ID at the point of purchase, and would require phone companies to store this info for law enforcement purposes.

The move comes after the revelation that the terrorism suspect involved in the attempted bombing in New York City’s Times Square used an anonymous prepaid cell phone to disguise his identity when purchasing loads of highly explosive M-88 Fireworks and a Nissan Pathfinder. Commonly, such purchases would alert the FBI and allow the individual involved to be tracked. In this case, though, the anonymous handset covered the terrorism suspect’s tracks.

insidetech.monster.com...

Originally posted by Shadoefax

Originally posted by TheRedneck

On every bill printed by the US Treasury there are these words:

This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private

meaning that no one in the US can refuse to accept cash for any purchase. If I want to pay for a new car in $1 bills, and the dealer refused to accept it, I actually have a legal case against them, in which I can own the new car without paying a dime. They refused to accept payment when offered, so I get the product for free.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
My response every time someone says "It's against Federal/state law" is to politely ask for Title and Code. If they can't produce it, I call them a liar and leave.

I ask politely ... Title and Code please.

Well I wouldn't call TheRedneck a liar; he's an honest gentleman. However in this case he is quite wrong about retailers being required to accept cash payments. See my post on page 3.

On a tangent, do you know what is illegal to require as payment in the US, for any contractual transaction? Gold. Hmm...


Edit: page 3

[edit on July 6th 2010 by Ian McLean]

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by spacekc929
I am guessing that it is because of the price of a computer. If someone just stole a bunch of cash from someone, or counterfeited it or whatever, they don't want to keep it on hand, they want to use it... so if you have a big wad of cash and are using it on something valuable, I can see how they would want to make sure you're not some criminal.

If they were doing this for Snickers bars, I would be more worried.

Unbelievable...Sigh! Its none of thier damn business where they got the money. Unless someone witnessed a crime the idea that you have to prove your not a criminal to use a large amount of cash is as unAmerican as it gets!!! And what's worse is that people think it is ok or somehow justified... *&^$#@!

I'll even add this: This was done during Katrina. The hotels, motels etc, would not take cash! You had to have a credit card. This seems more like a 'chipping' issue - those who stand out with cash on hand are probably against a RFID system so why not get a record? They were just being good New World Order Citizens, don't be so uptight! Just move along without the items people.
This will be more prevalent as the days of death draw near. Remember, NWO (Fed Reserve) doesn't want your cash - they know it's as worthless as the paper it is printed on. Now the ink on the other hand......

I use cash for nearly everything. I bought 2 laptops with cash at the same time before. That was around 6 years ago, so maybe they've changed the law since then. I bought a car using cash last year. They never looked at my ID, just went by the information on the paperwork I completed. I'm not worried as none of my money is obtained illegally. My reason for using cash is probably not what you'd expect. When I lived in Japan, I had all of my payroll deposits set up to go to a Japanese bank. I've never changed it back and I just withdraw cash at the ATM. When I know I am planning to make a big purchase, I hit the ATM machine everyday until I have enough. I guess if I start having problems, I could put the cash in my wife's account, and use her debit card. Not that it would be any better, she doesn't have a SSN #. I never read anything that made me think she was obligated to get a SSN # when she was issued a green card. She doesn't work or generate any kind of income in the U.S.

I'm not worried about being robbed. In these parts, I'm known as the crazy guy who might shoot you in the face for knocking on the door.

reply to post by ThaLoccster

Give me a little time and I'll find the specific Title and Code for you.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Actually, as I understand it, a store can refuse to do business with anyone provided it is not on the basis of some Title VII protection.

Further, cash does not have to be accepted *IF* it is made clear in the offer, or otherwise prohibited by statute. In a retail environment, that is generally not the case. A simple price tag, which is the 'offer', is presumed to refer to cash.

Accordingly, if you 'accept' under contract law to tender the indicated amount, any additional 'post acceptance' conditions are not really enforceable. In other words, a purchaser has a claim for breach of contract, imo.



[edit on 7-7-2010 by loam]