When is the time when enough is enough? A look at Armed Revolution in Modern USA

reply to post by MrWendal


There are a few things that are probably going to happen. First, the government will try its power play. If it succeeds in setting up a system where there is no freedom, where the people have been brainwashed so much that they do not know the difference, where the media portrays biased news, where there is government survailance, this does seem like a hard battle to win.

However, if this develops along the path it seems to, eventually the government will do enough evil that it will truly not have a case for being the good guy anymore and the average Joe will figure it out, although the average Joe's slightly-less-than-average cousin might not.

In any case, a totalitarian government will have a limited lifespan until it either decays from corruption within its own ranks or is taken out by a natural rebellion of the people once they have not only been mistreated in the philisophical realm (where the battle is occuring at the moment) but in the physical realm, on a massive scale. Anyone can see that eventually, if the government tries to take too much power, there will be natural opposition from the populace it suppresses.

I think that the first order of business should be to see what happens in the elections this year. I know a lot of people, even the newspapers that usually praise Obama and many relatives and friends who supported him in the beginning, including me (although I became suspicious even before he was sworn into office) are beginning to turn.

I went to a sandwhich shop yesterday, and was served by a somewhat shaken individual with the words "Forgotten Freedom" tatooed across both of his arms. I asked him what that meant. He said that it was a political statement, that people in America have forgotten what freedom means and that it is only getting worse.

There are people like this all over the country, they are not terrorists, they are not bad guys. No, they are good people who want what is best for the citizens of America. They know that the government serves the people, not the other way around. They know that it is our divine right to pursue hapiness and create our own lives, something given to us at creation, and a natural right that cannot be taken away by law of man.

There is, however, a problem. We, especially the younger crowd, have been brainwashed by the school system and the damn media so much that we have forgotten exactly what freedom means. And how can we fight for what we do not understand?

The answer is, we must come to an understanding first.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by darkbake]

reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy


The more long winded the explanation the less likelyhood of anything of value contained within.
It's just justification and rationalization for inaction of the presenter in the face of stepping up.
You support a system by aquiesense. You change a system by interfering with its goals.
Will it hurt to buck the system?
most likely, especially when most hide themselves away while waiting for a victory trumpet to sound.

There is only one reason that th moozies are successful, and it's because the majority dont mind taking/being casualties in their cause, and BS excuses are not acceptable.

Thiaooba solutions work somewhere else, not here, not now, not soon enough.

reply to post by Wolf321


Large-scale assassinations would require planning and organization, and you know there is at least one rat on every ship. I don't know how that would work before they rounded up the "conspirators."

Personally I think that many of the people who have the means to participate in an armed revolution hold the belief that arms are a defensive tool, and as such, will use them only in defensive action to protect themselves and their families.

Having said that, I think the government would have to pose an imminent threat against the majority of citizens before mass armed conflict would erupt. If it does, the citizens of this country have the sheer numbers, well beyond what the government has.

This is one reason why freedoms are taken little by little and not all at once. Frog in pot.

people are sheep, simple plan truth, it is time to learn how to be a wolf, stand up and say i have had enough, AZ is doing it, the gulf states are doing it, it is when we/ they and us, back down and say ok the GOV has spoken they do not like it. Look at the AZ law and the gulf States doing there own clean up in stead of waiting for the GOV and BP to step in and act they took maters in there own hand, and there actions should be commended, and the people of this great nation are starting to say enough! we have had enough of your(the GOV) bs and we are not taking it any longer, and for now we are safe from the fear of total control, should we keep our self's at the ready and our eyes /ears open, the simple answer is yes, it is a wait and see game, when do we turn to force and armed conflict? when our system is no longer, what do i mien(mean) [for give me my grammar is not what it used to be] when the 3 powers of our nation cease to exist, for you that might not know they are the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative, and in my OP they should be called pillars for upon them this nation was built with out them, i hate to think of such a thing, but we must be vigilant, to them of TPTB that want nothing but one thing that is for the three pieces of paper to forgotten ripped apart and trampled on for as long as they stand firm and there are those that know the words and is still found in hole we as a nation will stand firm and yes there are them that try do harm by blind sighting us with misguided laws, laws that can be undone overturned, yes some might say good luck with that, luck has nothing to do with it is in our power to do so we just need the perseverance to do so or in plan speak the "balls to do it " if we stand together we shall be heard. The gov has flexed its mussels with the law, then i say it is our /we the peoples turn to do the same with the law, fight fire with fire, law with the law, there are many issues involved that have been in the news and we the people are now just starting to wake up, for we have the power, the right, and the gift to stand and be counted.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by bekod]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by bekod]

reply to post by MrWendal

Ok, first off I would certainly appreciate if you would treat me with the same respect I have treated you. You may not realize it, but people are able to disagree and still respect each other as men, as people, as members of the human race which share the same planet. So please, do not call me "son". I am not your son and I am not 12 years old.

It was not meant derogatorily or with disrespect it is just a figure of speech like "how you doin son" or "hows it going hoss". So sorry if it offended.

This thread was an attempt to open a dialogue and exchange ideas and concerns about a very tough subject.

And that is what I am doing. I have thought on this very subject many years and long and hard. Stop being so defensive and open your mind and at least consider what I am saying even if you do not agree in the end.

To get to your post, no I do not own an AR15 and I do not know anyone who does. I think it would be fair to say that the average person does not.

It won't be the average person who steps up to the plate it never is. Only 3 percent actually fought in the first American revolution. Most people who are into shooting and guns own AR15's. Millions have been sold in the last 6 months to the point of shortages of them. So yes lot of folks have them! If you're feeling the call I suggest you get one while you still can. It won't be a bunch of guys with thier Glocks or XD's trust me.

I do not feel we are better trained. I myself, have zero military training and in the event of an armed revolution, I would simply put, have to rely on "street smarts" and common sense.

I was talking about in general not your personal perspective. Many veterans who do have military training will train those who step up or already have. Many of the militias do this.

SO what bigger picture am I talking about? I am talking about how you make the change that this country desperately wants and needs, with some form of civility. Some people want armed conflict, I myself do not. However as I stated before, I do believe it is inevitable.

No sane person wants armed conflict. However there is never any civility in armed conflict so get rid of that idea right now If you feel it is inevitable. Stop worrying about the after math. One has little to do with the other. First we must remove the problem and then we can deal with what to create in place of the old.

What happens after the problem is resolved? How do we about correcting the real issues of having an out of control Government which must be dealt with or else we risk more of the same as well as an escalation of the events which we have already seen.

We take the good from the previous that our founders gave us and we patch the holes and discard the bad and further limit authority clarify what is off limits and that the people are the ultimate authority (after all we just proved it by beating them) and hope for the best. There are no guarantees and never will be. Several generations removed may fall into a similar trap again. This is why Thomas Jefferson said a little revolution every so often is good for freedom and liberty it is it's natural manure.

We give an inch, they take a yard, and that is just for starters. It is easy to sit back and say, "We outnumber them, go get em gang!" with zero plan of HOW to go about it, HOW to correct it, HOW to install a new Government of the people and for the people, THAT is the bigger picture I am referring to, and although I appreciate your posts and agree with you to an extent, you have failed to address the real question.

You seem to be talking about two different things here. We do outnumber them and there is a plan, just because your not part of it doesn't mean there are not millions of militia members across the country with a plan. There was no plan for the French revolution or the American revolution they just happened, people did what they had to to defeat tyranny and then they dealt with the aftermath and reorganized thier societies.

Like all revolutions we will have to get together and decide what to do an how to go about it and it won't be easy. The alternative is to do nothing and let our posterity grow up or be born in to slavery and totalitarianism.

America was meant to be free and despite the current darkness that is growing darker that mindset has permeated the American mindset and will manifest eventually despite the rough times. It is in the collective DNA so to speak now and there is no removing it.

Having said all that I too have felt armed conflict is inevitable but I have not given up hope that some alternative may appear that we can avoid it. I seek divine guidance in that respect and hope others will also. Prepare for the worst hope for the best.

[edit on 2-7-2010 by hawkiye]

Even a little power goes a long way. I believe that America is the place where the last and final Revolution will happen. Many think this will be like revolutions of the past, but I'm suprised to not see that more ATSers haven't read or even considered that past revolutions maybe weren't what they seemed and even some research into the American and French revolution shows that there may have been an unseen hand in it. And so what if a bloody revolution "for the people" happens? what then we are good for a while until the next power hungry freak comes in and slowly take it over? Like rats they scurry into the wood pile and just wait till the next time they can errode away at human freedom. This is what always happens! The next revolution will and has to be fought ina profoundly different way than in the past. As for the technology; all i have to say is BAh!!! there is no technology that exists today that is more powerful than the power that one human has locked away within themself. We just need to find out how to use it.TPTB take our power all it takes is a recognition of that power and then to stop playing the game they made us play in the first place. More people just need to stand up and say "NO" and the word has to spread. Also, how can someone from another country sit here and complain that Americans aren't standing up? America has been meddling in the affairs of every country on this Earth for the last 50 years; Why don't the people of these countries stand up to that? NO ONE is doing anything ANYWHERE; it isn't JUST the Americans who need to wake up; we are in this as a whole and it is every one of us.

reply to post by MrWendal


There are two alternatives to changing the US political climate without the use of armed revolution:
1. The Free State Project
2. Seasteading

The first option, the Free State Project, despite the fact that less than 1,000 people have moved their lives to New Hampshire so far to join the project, has pretty much slowed government growth to a crawl in the state and is on the verge of actually rolling back the monster a little bit. Very impressive considering over 10,000 people at this point plan to continue to stream into the state yet still.

The second option (Seasteading) is extremely expensive but is basically an "ultimate solution" and I think within a few decades such a project will get off the ground with great success.

Considering that about 820 of about 300,000,000 million Americans have so far pushed hard for real change by taking very hard actions for change, the US is not even remotely anywhere near the point where there could be a legitamite armed resistance even considered at this point. It would make no sense on no level when a mere 820 activists in New Hampshire are apparently all that is needed to stop the state from going even more tyrannical than it is at least in that one area. That implies that all that is needed to stop the beast known as the United States of America from turning into a fascist two-party monster of particularly devestating action would be about 100,000 Americans turning into activists. Not exactly unthinkable at all.

If/when there are about 250,000 members to organizations like the Free State Project I expect the entire US to start rolling back the tyranny. And for those who don't understand or believe me I really advise you guys to look into what is actually being accomplished in New Hampshire by those guys. The most recent example is that they campaigned rolled back knife laws to allow everyone to own pretty much any kind of knife. A knife store had their collection essentially stolen by the police and now they are giving it all back (though they "lost" 1/3 of the collection and may be sued now I imagine!).

It has been estimated that if 1,000 more people move into New Hampshire for the Free State Project the government there will actually start to roll back and a true state of freedom will begin. I'd strongly advise everyone look into that and tune into FreeTalkLive.com to check on their progress (especially such as listening to the past weeks archive which gives examples of the activism going on in New Hampshire).

More liberty really is possible and it doesn't take any violence and it doesn't even take very many people: maybe 100,000 serious activists for the entire US, which is 1 in 2,800 people. A very tiny minority of highly active people (1 hour a day or something like that) can do quite a lot and New Hampshire is proof of this.

Edited out the worst of the grammar

[edit on 2-7-2010 by truthquest]

first off id like to note dont let my name fool you i have lived on the east coast of america for 17 years and i am supernaturaly sensative i stand for the good of the whole for the people and have watched america go from the most loved PEOPLE on earth to quite possibly the most hated
now most of you might think it is your government that is accountable and they that represent you but the real truth is that most if not all your representavies are bought and sold with gifts of money and power by a higher order of government perhaps there is some truth in the military industrial complex ? as any "DECENT" perhaps radical policy changeing individual is usualy assasinated be it physically or by character now that said lets get to the realisation of peaceful liberation by the people for the people
YOU CANNOT WIN OR CHANGE ANYTHING BY AN ARMED OR VIOLENT PROTEST IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM FOR YOU WILL BE IMEDIATELY LABELED AS TERRORISTS OR WORSE MARTIAL LAW IMPOSED AND HURDED UP INTO FEMA CAMPS
there is only one way you can do it and it is absolutely proven and the last thing you should do either is gather in mass as in this day and age "THEY" the real powers that be will infiltrate your ranks and create violonce and discredit your peacefull proceess as the one thing they want but havent ,manged to achieve not even after 911s suspicious happenings is MARTIAL LAW so to win to bring your government to its knees is so easy its not even funny what you in essance have to do is this
THE WHOLE NATION NEEDS TO DECLARE A PUBLIC HOLIDAY OR SUCCESION OF THEM AND ESSENTIALLY GO ON STRIKE
basically put through the internet and other FREE uncontroled channels choose a date or succesion of dates and get the word out what you have to create is the peoples 4th of july to declare independance form your government ie stay home go to the beach or spend time with your rfamilys but nobody i repeat NOBODY goes to work on that day not even the corner store opens essentially the whole nation stages a sit in and refuses to go to work if you can get that going then you the AMERICAN PEOPLE will change the world for the world will see that the AMERICAN PEOPLE are not responsible for the AMERICAN POLICY and the world will fall in love with you again and your represenatives will not be able to deny privately or publicly YOUR NATIONAL VOTE OF NON CONFIDENCE in your government further more there will be no state or national controled or run so called PEACE OFFICERS to break up your protests and cause any kind of malice to fall on any us citizen but best of all you will deny them martial law which is what they crave they didnt build the fema camps for nothing
Im born York England and live New York America and im a passionate patriotic anglo american but most of all i love the human race there should NEVER be taxation without representation FIGHT FOR YOUR CONSTUTION PEOPLE but be smart dont do it violently just stay home but get the whole country to stay home and if you organise it to the highest do not alighn yourself with or have any political or media personalitys speak for you make it a protest by the people for the people GOD will present you with the solution to the problem ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS EXPRESS AND SHOW WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART AS A NATION and i mentioned i was supernaturally sensative for a reason ILL TELL YOU THIS MUCH IF YOU THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN STAND ON MASS FOR THE GREATER PART OF YOUR PEOPLE IN PROTEST TO YOUR GOVERNMENT "PEACEFULLY" YOU WILL INSPIRE ALL THE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD WHOME HAVE BECOME SLAVES TO THERE GOVERNMENTS TO DO THE SAME

Hasn't Jesse Ventura talked about how on his first day in the governor's office of minnesota that the CIA walked in and told him they were in charge, and had been for some time? The resources of the elites are enormous and they will use them. If they can't get where they want to go by coaxing us, they will force us. The plans of psychopaths have a way of going very wrong.

This is an excellent thread for conversation. I know the question has come up in my world with several friends. What can we do? I also don't believe in the vote them out, or for that matter vote them in, theory. We know we don't elect the President. We never did. The purpose of the electorial college has long out lived it's purpose. Recently I asked a group of friends what they thought would happen if, during an election year, we all just don't go? Would that make an impact? I've been to one to push people into voting with the arguement that not voting is a form of voting. It says "I'll go along with what ever those who did vote think." So the don't vote issue would require a whole lot of people to mean anything at all. The likelihood of geting a significant number of people refusing to vote isn't good. Yet at the polls we are simply voting in another batch of politicians who will eventually, follow in step with the history of what has become our administration.

During the VN war sociologist were paying attention. Don't want a demonstration to grow? Don't tell anyone there is a demonstration going on. MSM has turned that into an art. To effectively protest it almost has to be a secret between enough people to make a difference.

As Americans we have a duty to speak up if our leaders are not doing their jobs or fail to represent us in any fashion. I can't begin to count the ways we are not being represented....there are simply too many. Our system is so flawed, the corruption so profound, it's unimaginable. We need to fix the system.

I would like to think we can make changes peacefully. Truth be told that hope is diminishing.

k

JUST ORGANISE A NATIONAL DAY A SHOW OF NO CONFIDENCE IN YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE WHOLE NATION STAYS HOME

Civil war dead = 620,000
Civil war dead 2010 = ????

The Union/Confederate army's killed each other with muskets and bayonetts...

And we are going to sustain all the unimaginable death and destruction of a 2nd American revolution for what???? Last time I checked the evil government issues checks to people that do absolutely nothing but sit on their fat ass's. I just got a FHA loan, the government has insured it in case I decide to sit on mine and not pay.

Think of all the things we as Americans take for granted. We really don't have allot to bitch about. We enjoy the highest standard of living in the World. Our poor people wear Air Jordan's, watch TV on big screens and drive Cadillac Escalades. We drink clean water and can go get patched up immediately if they get hurt, may even get a helicopter ride there regardless of how big their bank account is!

Sure banksters and power brokers get to siphon off billions of tax dollars to fund their lavish lifestyle, secret society's decide who will be our leaders. Your phone calls are probably being monitored too but who gives a Shiite?

Originally posted by Agentenglish
JUST ORGANISE A NATIONAL DAY A SHOW OF NO CONFIDENCE IN YOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE WHOLE NATION STAYS HOME

How about this Sunday?

I apologize if someone else posted this info. I can honestly say I didnt read thru all 1 gazillion posts!! If my math is correct, there are 307 million people living in America. There are only 2.7 million in all 5 branches of the armed services, active and reserves. Thats less than 1% of Our population. Granted, they have weapons that we dont have access to but their numbers are still quite small compared to 'cilvilians'. I'd also bet that not all of our military would partipate in 'martial law'. Either way, We could definately kick ass if we wanted. The problem would be working together. You're gonna have those 'fence sitters', those who wont fight and those who couldnt fight at all, the infirm, ill or children. Still, we could definately do it, we just gotta have the will to do so......FREEDOMMM!!!! LOL!!

reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy

So with this example is it possible that we could bring the Financiers Banksters and the Rest of the Illuminati to their knees by stopping the Velocity of Money until they submit to our demands? I think so. ( Mind you the Angelic Race is in Fact Us and we are them. You have to read the book to understand how each level of planet works) They will not come down and fight our fight for us unless they absolutely have to or are ordered to be the Creator. I think that if we could somehow plan a formal date and got a couple million people we could

I don't know about aliens and your apparent contact with other planets so I'll just leave that alone and instead, focus on the question posed in the last paragraph of your post.

Why would this scenario not work on Earth? Well, because humans are both greedy and ignorant. First, in order for people to stop work for a day, these people have to understand that something is wrong, which most don't and a large fraction of the few who do, simply don't care or feel that they have no power over it.

For instance, if "Joe" stopped his job for a day, "Jim" would take place. Either "Jim" doesn't see anything wrong with our current system or the need to put food in the mouths of his family, over-rides any activism ventured by his neighbors.

To put it plainly, if you leave your job, some other person desperate to feed their families will gladly take your place. Jobs and food are scarce. Also, not nearly enough people even feel that anything is wrong to create any kind of effective impact bu such a move. In order for this kind of activism to work, the whole world or country needs to work together. With TPTB controlling not only the media, but also communications, there is no hope of organizing in such a large manner. Without the true freedom of communication and the true right to assemble, you will never realize such a massive organization of opposition. In order to preserve such rights and liberties, violence is needed. No matter how peaceful we want to be, there will always be people who aren't peaceful and if we aren't capable of meeting force with force, we will lose, period. Because our opposition has weapons, we too need to arm ourselves with those weapons or we can be peaceful all we want, under the banner of oppression.

--airspoon

reply to post by MrWendal

Are Americans just lazy and cowardice?

We have a winnah! What's worse- those of us who WOULD do something (and let's face it, you cant fight powers like this by yourself, unless your name is Superman and bullets bounce off your chest) Cant find enough people willing to pry their eyeballs off the tv or out of the fridge long enough to give a tinker's damn.

Is it even realistic that Americans can "fight back with their wallets and votes?

About as realistic as my having the ability to fly by flapping my arms and whistling like a bird. Money is worthless, and votes have been corrupted by both greed and technology. Not to mention the brainwashed idiots who have been told to vote for someone 'because they are (insert superficial reason here- like oh, say, RACE)'.

There's well more than enough reasons for people to be charging thru DC screaming in complete fury- but, like Homer SImpson, they are distracted by silly shiny things: "Let's attack them NO- Ooo! Donut!".

And then, there's fear. Oh, brother. I have personally dealt with 4 people who are so paralyzed with fear, NOTHING is getting accomplished. They dont even stand up for themselves and complain, because "I'm afraid I'll (lose my home, lose money, lose this, lose that)" Go ahead. Bow down. You'll lose more than you'd risk by taking the bull by the horns and making it into burgers!

You may have a few thousand willing to storm the castle, but you will have millions behind them cheering them on, only to step aside and watch the slaughter when the first person charges in and the first bullet is fired.

Exactly. It's called cowardice and being a weak minded, weak willed pile of (rest censored due to content).

It's honestly too bad the decent people cannot just pull up stakes and leave. Leave the US, leave everything- and go move somewhere else.

reply to post by Demetre


I agree with that but what about all the civilian enterprises that work for the Gov, private security contractors, and all the other people that would be recalled from their IRR status (out of those Im sure some would report while others would not) the police that will uphold the will of the FED especially if martial law is enacted they become Federal employees again some may not conform but I will speculate most would. Just a thought about those numbers of bodies filling that billet, now how many of those that would actually fire upon citizens they were sworn to protect is an issue all together different, and then again the populace will still out number that even but again how many have the cohonies to fire upon uniformed AMerican soldiers. ok enough from the peanut gallery cheers

B

reply to post by MrWendal

Anyone calling for an armed revolution should consider what a worst case scenario might look like in the end. The government (gov) would not quit. The gov has the allies, not the people. The gov could easily get assistance from it's 'allies" to fight off a "Coup d'état" by spinning their propaganda that we are all terrorist cells.

IMO - The gov would employ a scorched earth policy. The gov is willing to sacrifice most of the people of this nation in order to maintain control (consider the handling of the GOM). And I would venture to say that most democrats would not even join in the fight - I could be wrong. Why would they fight a gov that is lead by the man they elected? Half of them don't even care if he's an American citizen.

The gov has the technology, infrastructure, facilities and resources to overthrow and contain an uprising. When all the dust settles, the nation could have thousands of towns resembling the Gaza Strip. And the FEMA camps would be full.

You must consider the worst case scenario. I know there are many who are willing to pay that price but IMO most are not. The worst case scenario is probably the most likely scenario. I believe this is what TPTB want to happen.

We have to keep looking for solutions because right now revolution looks like a guaranteed failure.

Just one opinion.

reply to post by Demetre


There was a General who criticized the Obama administration a few days back. A GENERAL OF THE ARMY DAMMIT ! And, he was tossed away.
Soldiers are exhausted about all this im sure of that. They must feel like they're being played on a plank board in the pentagon, pushed by little wooden sticks on the back.

Heil Patriots;

A revolution is probably too late now anyway.

Feel sure the gov anticipated this long ago and
have everything in place to extinguish any type
of revolution, should one be organized
without spies.

Is there anyway to destroy the satellites?

The people who feed off of gov hand-outs, i.e. medicaid, foodstamps,
free health care are not going to upset the apple barrel. Actually
tax payer handouts. So can't count on them. I remember in Australia,
the only immigrants allowed in were those who had something to
give back to the country. Not in the Americas. We take all the
nothings to offer, with some exceptions. Maybe if everyone quit their
jobs, there would be nothing to give; no gov paychecks, no incoming
taxes. The economy would collapse and the gov would collapse.
Of course one must plan ahead.