Some of the Excellent Dining in Gaza.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Except you are engaging in disinfo, and propagandizing for "your" side.

I have been to Palestine and am saying its not even half as bad as portrayed in the News.

you're obviously expecting ATS readers to be very stupid.

No, just less travelled.

Your entire point in this is to try to claim there is no problem in Gaza, because oh hey, there's a restaurant.

Ive said several times in this thread that I think not all is well in Gaza.
I think I even say it on every page, but nobody will listen +

Skyfloating, every time I see you post, I'm reminded that ATS must have some terribly low standards for making people moderators.

Please explain this in more detail, im very interested in your thoughts on this.

reply to post by Mr Objectivity


Im assuming you learn of most of that through the media and not through your own experience of spending time in Palestine?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Ive travelled both Israel and Palestine repeatedly. The standard of living in Palestine is very high, compared to neighbouring countries (Jordan, Egypt, Syria).

Everyone is well fed, owns a car, has a house or an apartment, warm water, plenty of food.The reason Palestine is so rich compared to its arab neighbours is because of all of the Aid it receives from the West.

The "poor oppressed me" image is one exploited by many countries and groups to milk it for money. Israelis use it when they overdo demands for Holocaust reimbursement. And Palestinians know how to play that card too.

Oh you must mean the 1% that is living the good life inside a bubble of delusion if you still have the tickets from your flight i would like to see them as i am VERY skeptical that you have even been on a plane to the middle east.

Perhaps you could elaborate on your viewpoint that everyone is well fed considering that most of the population is unemployed (no thanks to Israel (infact no scrap that gaza has a booming building trade... except they have to work with mud and crap i wouldn't look twice at because "cement is an offensive material" you'd have thought the bunker busting missiles Israel receives whenever it wants to invade a smaller country would be of some use but apparently the most advanced millitary in the middle east can't work them in peace time ... sorry "peace time"))

Perhaps we should ship you off to the isle of man and give you basic food, mud blocks and all the stuff the Palestinians have I'm sure it will be a blast. :|

Originally posted by rationaluser
Perhaps you could elaborate on your viewpoint that everyone is well fed considering that most of the population is unemployed

That is not a viewpoint, that is a fact. If you're looking for starvation, look at Africa.

Here's a good lesson on Fact vs Opinion that will enable you to phrase your future posts more appropriately.

I have also answered the question elsewhere already, but it bears repeating: They are well fed because of all of the AID they receive from the West.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Mr Objectivity

 

Im assuming you learn of most of that through the media and not through your own experience of spending time in Palestine?

I learn it from both doing my own constructive and unbiased research, and I also learn it from Palestinian friends who grew up there and felt the gun butts to their faces at IDF checkpoints for no other reason that looking soldiers in the eyes, rather than staring at the ground as directed.

I learn it from Jews who are vocal enough to express their own disgust of their own government.

Don't try to call me out because your bias is clear and evident.

Originally posted by habfan1968
You know hamas is an internationally recognized terror organization still?

Wrong! Only the US and it's few selected allies have listed Hamas as terrorist organisation

The European Union,[8] Israel,[9] Japan,[10] Canada,[11] and the United States[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

en.wikipedia.org...

Under UN they fall in the category of resistance fighters.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Go Look for Yourself.

As I'm neither a registered, accredited journalist or a member of a humanitarian NGO friendly to Israel, how would you suggest I go about this?

Because that's the ONLY way to get permission from the Israelis to get in to Gaza - and it's been that way for a couple of years now.

reply to post by YJLTG



So the other terror countries with dictators don't see it that way? you are kidding right, Canada recognizes it and that in itself should tell you all you need to know.

reply to post by Mr Objectivity


Thats wonderful. Then you must really know a lot about the standard of living in Palestine and the improved relations between the West Bank and Israel.

reply to post by vox2442


I know its difficult. I suggest you at least go to West Bank then. That should be no problem and just as revealing.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I know its difficult. I suggest you at least go to West Bank then. That should be no problem and just as revealing.

Ummmmm.... no.

See, the thread is about Gaza. Suggesting we go to the West Bank to experience life in Gaza is like telling us to go to Hong Kong to experience life in rural China.

You've been telling people how beautiful it was when you were there, and how we should all just go if we don't believe you.

But there's the unfortunate reality: getting in to Gaza has been nearly impossible for anyone except an accredited journalist or a member of an Israeli friendly NGO for YEARS.

Israel controls all entry and exit to Gaza.

When were you in Gaza, exactly? And how did you get in?

Our Royals here in the UK were doing quite OK during the blitz also and i'm suprised this thread is still running.

Realy can we not find anything better than were to eat out in gaza to try and make a point and if you realy must compare life styles then may i sugest Iran offers more freedom than is available to your average amerian or have you not noticed how it has become a police state.

opps sorry i bumped it again.

Originally posted by habfan1968
reply to post by YJLTG

 

So the other terror countries with dictators don't see it that way? you are kidding right, Canada recognizes it and that in itself should tell you all you need to know.

No Canada does not tell me all I need to know...why would Canada be telling me anything? What are they some kind of authority on the world?
Out of 195 countries only

The European Union,[8] Israel,[9] Japan,[10] Canada,[11] and the United States[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

says a lott on its own.

Originally posted by vox2442
When were you in Gaza, exactly? And how did you get in?

I dont think he went in Gaza..he is lying. If he did go inside Gaza he would have posted the pics long ago which he claimed he took. Max. he would have gone to Israel and taken pics of the wall and barb wire from Israeli side.

Originally posted by vox2442
Suggesting we go to the West Bank to experience life in Gaza is like telling us to go to Hong Kong to experience life in rural China.

Not at all. Its a one hour drive from West Bank to Gaza.

When were you in Gaza, exactly? And how did you get in?

Thats private.

Going to bat pretty hard on this I see. Don't provide your own experiences as proof then say it's private. You opened the door.

Drive out one hour from any major city in the US and you can find rural areas. Once again, your lack of objectivity concerns me.

As to the comment about me knowing what's going on in Palestine, I do.

Currently a childhood friend's wife is in Palestine. I ask what the deal there is almost obsessively.

Now without sounding biased on the matter I am willing to yield to the notion that there is propaganda being thrown out by pro Palestinian activists. But to say that Israel's propaganda machine doesn't DWARF that of Palestine, I think, would be a fallacy.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

When were you in Gaza, exactly? And how did you get in?

Thats private.

That's BS.

You've been telling us how great Gaza was. Well, when were you there? Last month? Last year? 10 years ago? That answer is extremely important, because there's been this whole blockade thing, which you're well aware of. So tell us, were you there during the blockade years? Before the second Intifada? When, exactly, so we can put your comments into perspective. A bit of context, if you will.

As for how: I know what it takes to get into Gaza, because I've applied 3 times for permission over the years. The Israelis have denied me every time. I'm curious to hear your experience, because it'll tell me very very quickly if you've been there, or you're lying through your teeth.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by vox2442
Suggesting we go to the West Bank to experience life in Gaza is like telling us to go to Hong Kong to experience life in rural China.

Not at all. Its a one hour drive from West Bank to Gaza.

When were you in Gaza, exactly? And how did you get in?

Thats private.

Still waiting on those tickets and while you're at it perhaps you could post some facts about everyone being "so well fed" from an unbiased news source? or humanitarian aid site? thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by rationaluser
Perhaps you could elaborate on your viewpoint that everyone is well fed considering that most of the population is unemployed

That is not a viewpoint, that is a fact. If you're looking for starvation, look at Africa.

Here's a good lesson on Fact vs Opinion that will enable you to phrase your future posts more appropriately.

I have also answered the question elsewhere already, but it bears repeating: They are well fed because of all of the AID they receive from the West.

Currently the amount of aid they receive is 1/4 the required amount could you please post a link to the site you are reading this from i would like to read it and find out for myself if you are lieing.

And my friend since YOU are making the accusation that everyone is well fed in gaza the onus is on YOU to provide the evidence and if you EVER try to condescend to me again you will be sorry. One does not become an atheist without learning the art of debate.

reply to post by rationaluser


Hey rational, bud, I am kind of on your side, but threatening someone over the internet with "you'll be sorry" kind of takes away from some of your credibility. I know how you're feeling but sometimes we have to maintain poise and decorum just for credibility's sake.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

in the first quarter of 2010 (January-March), 94,500 tons of supplies passed through Israel's border crossings with Gaza. That aid included 40,000 tons of wheat (equal to 53 million loaves of bread), 2,760 tones of rice (or 69 million servings), 1,987 tons of clothes (the equivalent of 3.6 million pairs of jeans), and 553 tons of milk powder and baby food.

*

Sorry to bring back a post on the first page of this thread.

I ran some numbers...

If we take the figure of 80% of 1.5M citizens being dependent on aid (see previous posts), and 94,500 tons of aid being allowed in by the israelis over 3 months, then that equals 875 grams of aid being distributed per dependent person per day.

That includes jeans.

That is hardly enough aid.