Riddle me this Athiests...

reply to post by havok


I would just like to say I and many people I know are either atheist/agnostic - but in realist terms, just do not give a flying shoot.

Yet all of us lead very ethical lives compared to the majority of the population I feel.

That is such a bad stereotype to put forth.

reply to post by Schmidt1989


Having browsed these forums over the last few months, I'd say there's a few level 7s on here.
The most popular mantra that they like to parrot is: ''There is no God''.


[edit on 18-5-2010 by Conspiracy Chicks fan !]

reply to post by CHA0S


The whole tone of your post just defeats the topic. Take a deep breath and make your point without resorting to defensive finger pointing. I couldn't even get through what you wrote here.

Originally posted by CHA0S
Now as many may know, I'm agnostic, and I strongly oppose most organized religions. However, I'm sick of always picking on the "believers", Christians particularly. It's high time I pointed my "finger of blame", so to speak, away from those with faith, and towards those with an absence of faith. I'm talking about Atheists of course, those who try to argue "there is no God". Now, I can see exactly why you might be against religion, but why do you reject the whole idea of God, or a higher power, a super-consciousness, it doesn't really matter what you call it, I want to know how you can be so sure no such being exists. You proclaim those with faith have belief in something totally fictional and man-made - and that could be true, but you have no evidence of your proclamation either.

You have incorrectly defined atheism i'm afraid and that makes the rest of your argument baseless. While some atheists may say there is no god, most of us often say that there is no evidence for a god and therefore we don't believe in one.

Asking us to bring you a science book that decalres there is no god is not how science works. Proving a negative is very rarely possible, it's like if i tell you there is an invisible unicorn in my garden, you can't prove there isn't, so do you then believe in it? No you either adopt an agnostic position saying you do not know, or you say there is no evidence for the unicorn and therefore you don't believe in it.

It is upon the shoulders of the religious to provide proof for their claim. If they ever prove god i will accept it immediately, that is how science works.


So you defined atheism incorrectly, at least the details of it as there is a massive difference between baselessly denying god and saying there is no evidence for a god, and you also defined the scientific method incorrectly by thinking it is used to prove a negative.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by havok
I am not Atheist, but I do want to add this.

I believe that the reason people denounce God is this:

Because they don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

Yeah you wish it were that easy but it isn't the truth. I am an atheist, i am responsible to society, the law, my friends and family. However the big thing that stops me doing anything bad is because i simply don't want to do it.

I'm afraid this argument of the religious is badly thought out, if indeed it is thought out at all. I think it's used to make you all feel a little better when you see plenty of atheists going about their business without breaking any laws. It confuses you i'm sure that some people are able to behave without the threat of long lasting damnation.

Year ago I went to a talk on volcanoes in Indonesia. The speaker was a missionary who characterized the people of Indonesia as being non-Muslim. He said that the people were not really Muslims and therefore Indonesia was not the largest Muslim country in the world.

This could have been said about any country and its religion. Most people today and probably in the past were jack-religious, You say something officially and do something else in reality.

My experience from traveling many parts of the world is that people are basically good. That covers about 99% of the people I've met. Are there bad eggs out there? Sure. I just don't think that religion makes a difference in bad eggs. On t her other hand I'm not against religions. I believe that religions are good. I've seen the positive influence on people. I don't have to be a believer in religion to see the positive aspect of religions.

reply to post by Conspiracy Chicks fan !


This may be true, but I find that most people's personalities change whether they're on the internet or not. I also believe that most number 7s are probably 15 year old slipknot fans. I was one of them. Amazing are the changes one can go through in interests and beliefs in 5 years.

reply to post by piedsniper


There is a fairly big difference between something as simple and readily available as a virus and trying to prove that there is a sentient force or being of some sort that may not even interact in our universe anymore. Also people tend to not like it when you call them weak of mind.

To claim there is no God. Is claiming full knowledge of the universe.
Having full knowledge of the universe would make you God.
When someone says God does not exist. They are really saying.
I am God.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
reply to post by Conspiracy Chicks fan !

 

This may be true, but I find that most people's personalities change whether they're on the internet or not. I also believe that most number 7s are probably 15 year old slipknot fans. I was one of them. Amazing are the changes one can go through in interests and beliefs in 5 years.

Lol man is that ever true. when i was a level 7 i was about 15-16 years old.

reply to post by randyvs


That's not a logical argument.

Originally posted by randyvs


To claim there is no God. Is claiming full knowledge of the universe.
Having full knowledge of the universe would make you God.
When someone says God does not exist. They are really saying.
I am God.

You could make the same ridiculous argument for the claim that there is a god.

Nice try though.

reply to post by randyvs


Almost every religion relies on the idea that it is the only true faith and that anyone who denies it or worships other gods is evil or being led astray by evil. They claim that they have the only spiritual truth and all other gods or philosophies are nonsense.

Religious fundamentalism in particular attempts to defend and rationalize ancient myths as absolute truth and ignores or denies scientific proof to the contrary.

Lot's of people claim to know for certain there is a God but when asked to produce evidence they cannot. There is no evidence scientific or otherwise for the existence of a god or gods hence why atheists do not believe in them. How is it arrogant to lack belief in something for which there is no evidence?

Are you saying that because I don't believe in Unicorns I am declaring myself a Unicorn? There is no evidence of Unicorns but saying they don't exist is like saying I know EVERYTHING about the Universe (according to you)...


[edit on 19-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

reply to post by CHA0S


I gotta go with this here too...

I just literally don't care if there is a god or not, it makes no difference to my life either way. I personally think its quite unlikely that there is a god.

However if there is one, thanks very much for creating us, although i shall not be worshipping you. And if there isn't one life go's on, and probabley in a more humane manner.

thanx to Peruvianmonk

reply to post by havok

I believe that the reason people denounce God is this:

Because they don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

I understand where you are coming from, but if you think about it a bit more you'll likely find that you have it back to front.

First, I don't think atheists 'denounce God', deny maybe, but not denounce.

The actions of people who use their personal, twisted, hypocritical version of God as an excuse to perpetrate evil are justifiably denounced, sure. These are the people who don't want to be held accountable for their actions - if 'God told me to do it' or 'this is what God wants' is their justification then they are blaming God for their actions, not being accountable.

I understand that some people are so weak that they cannot control their actions in this life without the threat of punishment in the afterlife. But acknowledging personal accountability only in the afterlife is simple cowardice. Living your life in a 'good' fashion in order to gain a favorable outcome in the after life is an attempt to bribe God.

Atheists, on the other hand, have no one to blame but themselves for their actions. That is ultimate accountability. Living your life in a 'good' fashion as an atheist is due to it simply being the right thing to do with no regard for reward (or punishment for falling short, true).

If both examples result in a life well lived, what does it matter? In the end, if there is an afterlife, both end up in Heaven and it is a pleasant surprise to the Atheist, if there is no afterlife, neither is any the wiser.

Science can prove there was no god or jesus. Go outside and try to walk on water.

If jesus was on this earth and he was real he had to have laws apply to him such as gravity.. He did die after all so he had to have the laws of the earth.. So how can someone walk on water..

Logic.

If i have [some] power,
And if God has all power,
& both God & i are in any ways independent of one another this is impossible.

100% - x [non-zero value]% = 100% ?

a fallacy.

A logic conundrum.

In valid math.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by slank]

Originally posted by CHA0S
Now as many may know, I'm agnostic, and I strongly oppose most organized religions. However, I'm sick of always picking on the "believers", Christians particularly. It's high time I pointed my "finger of blame", so to speak, away from those with faith, and towards those with an absence of faith. I'm talking about Atheists of course, those who try to argue "there is no God". Now, I can see exactly why you might be against religion, but why do you reject the whole idea of God, or a higher power, a super-consciousness, it doesn't really matter what you call it, I want to know how you can be so sure no such being exists. You proclaim those with faith have belief in something totally fictional and man-made - and that could be true, but you have no evidence of your proclamation either.

Bring me one science textbook which states God does not exist. At least Christians have a book (however laughable that may be) to back them up. Don't get me wrong, I believe the bible, and the teachings of any organized religion are probably wrong, but they still have a right to believe in a higher being, working for the greater good, from which they can draw strength. My problem is when they dilute what faith is all about, and turn it into an organization which manipulates and deceives people, which results in an army of brainwashed dummies storming around like the saviors of the Earth trying to force feed you a whole bunch of utterly ridiculous crap...but despite all this, it still gives you no right to claim there is no God.

You don't know there is definitely no God, and neither do I. No one on Earth does. You Atheists aren't as smart as you think, in fact, whilst claiming to be the most rational and down to Earth people, you are completely ignoring the scientific method all together, and jumping to conclusions. So how can you explain this? The way I see it, you need to refine your scope of scrutiny to the aspects of organized religion which are extremely detrimental to society and our collective growth. Until you do that, you'll look just as stupid as them, and be violently opposed. It's just as arrogant to say God does exist as it is to say he doesn't. In the end, you Atheists do nothing but promote the idea that you must be on one "side" of the team or the other.

You can tell them they are wrong about everything, but you can't tell them it's wrong to have faith.

[edit on 18/5/10 by CHA0S]

The burden of proof falls on the individual making the claim. Darwin didn't propose the theory of Evolution by Natural Selection then point fingers demanding that others prove him wrong, he went out and found evidence to support his claims. So did Newton, so did Einstein and so did every intellectual worth his/her weight. Religions have also attempted to back up their claims, they're laughable and I reject them.

Atheism isn't the active disbelief in deities, it is the rejection of a claim that they exist. I'm an Agnostic Atheist by the way, I've never calimed that there is no God, and I don't think many atheists do. I agree that proving there is a God is incredibly difficult, so I can't claim to know one way or the other, but based on the lack of evidence towards a God's existence I can go on living under the assumption that none exists, with 99.999... % assuredness. I'm also Agnostic Atheist towards the existence of Leprechauns, without having lived forever and known every happening in the universe I can't say with 100% conviction that no Leprechauns exist or have ever existed, however based on a lack of evidence I can for all intents and purposes say "Leprechauns do not exist".

reply to post by slank

Logic.

If i have [some] power,
And if God has all power,
& both God & i are in any ways independent of one another this is impossible.

100% - x [non-zero value]% = 100% ?

a fallacy.

A logic conundrum.

In valid math.

Sorry, incorrect premise, therefore incorrect result.

I have some power (so it is assumed).
God's power is infinite (so it is said).

Infinity - x [non-zero value less than infinity] = Infinity.

A truth.

No logical conundrum.

Valid Math.