7-Year-Old Girl Shot and Killed During Police Search of Detroit Home

reply to post by belial259


No one knows if he is actually guilty or not as he has yet to be tried, but he was in the house.

Officers arrested the suspect inside the home where Aiyana was shot, Godbee said.

www.foxnews.com...

As for who's to blame, there's not enough information to make that call yet. I would guess that the officer didn't have the safety mechanism on his weapon engaged, but that's just an uninformed guess.

As for the paramilitary police force, I do believe that in many cases they do go above what is needed and many times act more like a military unit than a police unit.

But I do have to say that if the police came into my house like that, I wouldn't attempt to fight with them. I wouldn't attempt to fight with the police that outmanned and outgunned me, especially if they had a legal warrant. They had a warrant which means the entrance into the property was legal. She should have just let them do their search and have it done and over with. If they did anything wrong she could have addressed that later in a safer way.

I saw this story earlier and didn't post it. I wish I had because the story I read was from Detroit and not Fox News and was much more complete than this one. I wish I had saved the link but I did not.

The police threw the "bomb", broke down the door, and entered. The girl's grandmother (47 yr old) attacked the first policeman through the door and as they struggled for the gun, it went off, killing the girl. There are uninvolved witnesses to this from the neighborhood.

This is not police brutality. It is a case of people who do not want to take responsibility for their own actions. The grandmother clearly is to blame for her own granddaughter's death. The only thing I can say to her benefit is that maybe she was disoriented by the bomb and just reacted (after all that's what their used for). In any case, this wasn't police brutality this time.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by richierich

 

Your assuming his finger pulled the trigger. What if mom, while fighting got HER finger in the trigger guard and discharged the firearm? As I said she should of never been able to get that close, but it happened, now its only right to hope the truth and facts come out before judging....because a dead little girl deserves that.

yeah...right. We should assume she shot HERSELF!! What a laugh you gave me with that one!!

She bumps into the cop who is storming in and of course she will grab his gun and somehow get her finger on the trigger and just HAPPEN to pull it at the same time that it is pointing a a child!! Right? C'mon..please..thats silly.

I bet anything that it will turn out that the lady NEVER tried to grab the gun or stuck her finger in the trigger guard...nonsense...I will bet that the cop says that it was like I said already.

The girl DOES deserve a fair investigation, but if past experience is any indicator, we will see the cop exonerated and all this called a ' tragic ' accident. The cop will get a slap on the hand and made to get more training on when to put your finger on the trigger...but it will end there. Maybe the family will get funeral expenses....awful.

Originally posted by N.of norml
rcw you know I appreciate your candor and accountability shown through your posts.

Thank You

I have however to ask, just what justification is there for taking a long gun into a confined space like a home for a domestic policing?

Understand a "long gun" doesn't always mean actually long, so during CQB an MP5 or 11.5" M4 are VERY good weapons for such things. The reason they are needed is simple...your handgun may not be enough for some of those people we are going after. Perps wear body armor now, they have more firepower then we do, or just as much. A handgun will not always be sufficient anymore.

The rounds from a MP5 an M4 or such have the capacity to not only penetrate the walls of the suspect home but the next door neighbors also.

Not so in all cases. Standard pistol caliber for most agencies is a .40S&W...an MP5 is a 9mm and an M4 is a .223. The penetration power of a handgun in .40 is worse then an MP5, given it is a 9mm. The .223 is the only one that can be questioned for over penetration, but again if the suspect is in armor, like we are, the .223 is a good thing. Granted the M4 is not always used...sometimes its handguns, MP5's and Shotguns, or the new UMP's.

I own a handgun( .480 Ruger) which is more than adequate to stop ANY suspect and can easily CONTROL it.

Your basing this off what? Reason I say that is this. I have seen a 9mm round strike a man in the chest and abdomen, he was hit 3 times and continued to fight. I have also seen guys live through being hit by .40S&W rounds. Ballistics look good on paper and in gelatin, but the reality is the round size doesn't guarantee the stoppage of a threat.

So if I as a citizen have adequate firepower to control any confined situation with plenty of stopping power, why are these men entering a confined area with clumsier weapons with extreme overkill of firepower?

Again your basing this off of what? Your saying ANY situation. So if a home invader comes into your house with a shotgun or rifle, you think your going to be matched with your .480? As you hide behind cover, they simply shoot through it killing you. If they have on armor your rounds simply sting. Sure if all conditions and the enviroment are on your side then a well placed round of ANY caliber will win the fight...but that is NEVER the case except for hollywood. Also you say long gun is clumsier...its actually more acurate and easier to control in a cqb enviroment UNDER STRESS.

You know a similar raid occurred in my area and the police went into an older mobile home with "long guns" and while shooting the pet they accidentally destroyed an innocent house guests intestines through the wall. Oh and never found the man they went in for....Overkill, literally
The list of Accidents is getting too long to keep calling them accidents rather than failed enforcement policies and over zealous execution of same.
N.

Again the situation must be dictated, but I don't know about their team...I know our team element that makes entry has more then one type of weapon on each man...that way we TRY to keep things as "safe" or predictable as we can.

Originally posted by richierich
yeah...right. We should assume she shot HERSELF!! What a laugh you gave me with that one!! She bumps into the cop who is storming in and of course she will grab his gun and somehow get her finger on the trigger and just HAPPEN to pull it at the same time that it is pointing a a child!! Right? C'mon..please..thats silly.

Richie I may hardly ever agree with you, but I KNOW your smarter then this. I never said she shot herself. What i am saying is, a weapon, if a long gun, is slung in front of the officer. While wrestling, fighting, or whatever you want to call it, WHO KNOWS, where her hands went, to grab what, etc...and in those motions it is VERY PLAUSIBLE, BY ACCIDENT, her fingers hit and pulled the trigger. Your also assuming they were standing and the muzzle was pointed at the kid...WHAT IF...he took her to the ground and that is where the weapon fired? The muzzle pointing out to the side when it goes off and unfortunatly IS pointed in the direction of the child...unknown to both the cop and grandma? And again, thats assuming either one of them actually pulled the trigger and it wasn't an accidental discharge.

I bet anything that it will turn out that the lady NEVER tried to grab the gun or stuck her finger in the trigger guard...nonsense...I will bet that the cop says that it was like I said already.

No idea Richie, but I will wait before making that accusation.

The girl DOES deserve a fair investigation, but if past experience is any indicator, we will see the cop exonerated and all this called a ' tragic ' accident. The cop will get a slap on the hand and made to get more training on when to put your finger on the trigger...but it will end there. Maybe the family will get funeral expenses....awful.

If it WAS an accident, I know you have that thought, but if it was and it is found that the weapon went off during the struggle....do you think that officer is going to ever forget that night or be able to wash it out of his thoughts?

They kill with impunity, the system will back them unless there is proof so profound they can't lie there way out of it. The victims of brutality and murder are soon forgotten.

woman killed by police while holding baby

Imagine being beaten with hammers and suffocated to force a false confession then being incarcerated for a large portion of your life. Where is the proportionate justice? And one can't dismiss this as one or two aberrant cops, the others knew and said nothing.

torture scandal

police torture

reply to post by Happyfeet



The cops are as arrogant as America, that arrogance is a big problem, just like America is facing its problems today around the world, the police force will face the same consequences.

The suspect arrested was not in the apartment the girl was shot in!

The half-witted murdering morons employed as police went to the wrong apartment, threw a flashbang through a closed window, burning a little girl sleeping in the front room. Then they burst in, yelling "Detroit Police," with their guns out.

The police knew there were children in the home because there were toys out the front.

They knew this could be the wrong apartment because the house was divided into two apartments and they had warrants for both.

So the morons threw a flashbang, (which are dangerous to children,) into a house where they knew there were children, and which they knew may be the wrong one.

Aiyana's father, Charles Jones, told CNN affiliate WDIV, "She was sleeping and they came in the door shooting and throwing flash grenades ... burned my baby up and shot her, killed her."

edition.cnn.com...

And now the lying police say yes, the suspect was at that address.
- He was at that street number alright, but not that flat number.

"They came into my house with a flash grenade and a bullet," said Charles Jones, father of the slain girl. "They say my mother (Mertilla Jones) resisted them, that she tried to take an officer's gun. My mother had never been in handcuffs in her life. They killed my baby and I want someone to tell the truth."

........................

But Charles Jones said he was trying to not be angry. He sat on the blood-stained front porch of his home Sunday, looking stunned and answering the questions of relatives, neighbors and news reporters.
"I want this story to be heard. This was a wrongful death," Jones said.
Police said they arrested the 34-year-old suspect in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jerean Blake, but Jones and his relatives say that suspect wasn't in their apartment. Jones said police simultaneously raided the upstairs apartment, too.
"Based on our intelligence, we got a search warrant for the location (on Lillibridge)," Godbee said. "Because of the violent nature of the crime, we thought we were entering a potentially dangerous situation."
Officers tossed the explosive device through the glass of an unopened window at the front of the house, Jones said. He said he rushed from a back bedroom to see his mother being pushed to the floor and another officer carrying his bleeding daughter from the house.

.........

Godbee would not comment on reports that neighbors told officers that there were children in the house, and pointed out toys in the front yard.
Godbee didn't say if the suspect in Blake's slaying was arrested in the downstairs or upstairs apartment. Godbee said, "The suspect was within the scope of our search warrant." He added that the warrant allowed police to search both units.

From The Detroit News: www.detnews.com...

If Police want to use "shock and awe" tactics, they shouldn't be surprised when an innocent grandmother, shocked by them burning an innocent 7 year old, does not behave as expected.

I sure wouldn't.

[edit on 16/5/10 by Kailassa]

"It was an accident"

"It was police brutality"

...what a joke, people on the internet stating their own, or the official theories from the media, as fact.

If you weren't there and don't know absolutely 1000% certain what happened, can you please be careful with these kind of absolute statements?

And NO, even neighborhood witness accounts do not equal being certain.

How the hell can somebody outside the house know what happened in those 3 seconds that this took place?

Geez...

reply to post by rcwj1975


I would hope he would not ' wash it out' of his thoughts'...he killed a kid.


You assume a lot...long gun... struggle with lady...etc. But the cop owned the gun, and HE has the responsibility to control it...NOT let it get grabbed and go off.

Just because a cop might..or might not, be sorrowful in not enough...the system should make sure he never uses a gun again if it is shown he screded up...and it was his gun. i can't wait to hear the results of the POLICE investigation of their own.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
If it WAS an accident, I know you have that thought, but if it was and it is found that the weapon went off during the struggle....do you think that officer is going to ever forget that night or be able to wash it out of his thoughts?

I certainly hope not.

He flashbanged and raided an apartment where he knew children were probably present. - An apartment he knew may not be the right one.

He bombed a child with a flashbang. He burnt her. He shot and killed her.

I hope you learn, as a LEO, that when you raid a house, the safety of innocent occupants is your responsibility.


By the way, you say: "If it WAS an accident"
Are you suggesting he may have shot her on purpose?

Originally posted by Kailassa
He flashbanged and raided an apartment where he knew children were probably present. - An apartment he knew may not be the right one.

He KNEW it was the right one and the house ALSO contained a murder suspect and mopeds that match those used in the killing of a kid ON PURPOSE! Where your getting this wrong house crap I would LOVE to know.

He bombed a child with a flashbang. He burnt her. He shot and killed her.

He didn't bomb a kid with the flashbang...is there ANY proof the child was even in the room where the flashbang went off at 1230 AM? NOOOO, again where are you getting this info? And now your saying he shot and killed her, as if on purpose....I am all for debate but not with a fool who makes stuff up or goes on NOTHING but accusations.

I hope you learn, as a LEO, that when you raid a house, the safety of innocent occupants is your responsibility.

Yes I do know this...and from EXPERIENCE of knowing this and having actually been in situations that DO go wrong, I know all to well....and I/WE do the best we can....

By the way, you say: "If it WAS an accident"
Are you suggesting he may have shot her on purpose?

Really dude...have you NOT read what I have been writing or you just don't comprehend well?

[edit on 5/16/2010 by rcwj1975]

reply to post by Kailassa


Nice work Kailassa filling in some facts.

The fact is the cops knew their suspect was at that address but not which unit.
The facts is it was a duplex and the cops knew this when they got their warrant.
The fact is there were toys out front of the duplex the cops saw them when thy arrived.
The fact is everyone lies when they make a big mistake especially when others will back you up.
The fact is cops excuses of " I was just doing my job,following dept. guide lines" or I "Feared for my life and other officers" to cover up murder is really getting old.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
I think this is one of those situations where unless you were there, the absolute truth will never be known.

Provided the police report things, exactly as they happened, then most of the truth should be known.

They are sworn to defend the law and truth, are they not?

reply to post by tezzajw


I would hope so, but, even with taking an oath, unless you are there, and living it in the moment, nobody really ever knows.

reply to post by Kailassa


Let me apologize and thank you for posting the Detroit News source....all I had so far was the CNN and FOX sources to go with, which were vague. My stance is still the same on the overall serving of the warrant on a murderer, but I now see more of why you are saying what you said....so again thanks for posting another source.

reply to post by rcwj1975

Edited.


Still seems fishy to me.



[edit on 16-5-2010 by SLAYER69]

Out from the woodwork of ATS come the the criminals and anti police crusaders who in reality would cower and be intimidated by a police officer.

it's a tragedy yes but it happens all the time worldwide..move along.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Let me apologize and thank you for posting the Detroit News source....all I had so far was the CNN and FOX sources to go with, which were vague. My stance is still the same on the overall serving of the warrant on a murderer, but I now see more of why you are saying what you said....so again thanks for posting another source.

No worries.

I've often found the local papers have much better researched articles than the major outlets do when in comes to local events.

What is your view of using a flashbang when there is likely to be children present, when there's no indication that these children are already in danger?

I understand it if there is already a hostage situation, but in this case it seems a bit over the top.



Btw, I understand you caring about how the policeman would feel. But I hope he is decent enough to feel bloody awful.
A man did something pretty terrible to me many years back. I lived, but he still went through hell over it. In response, he studied part time for years, learning all he could to make it unlikely he would ever hurt someone through negligence again.

The guy who hurt me was shallow, stupid and arrogant. The guy he became is mature, caring and humble, and much better educated.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
I think this is one of those situations where unless you were there, the absolute truth will never be known.

Provided the police report things, exactly as they happened, then most of the truth should be known.

They are sworn to defend the law and truth, are they not?

If you are not joking, then I hope you are being sarcastic. What on earth does swearing some oath have to do with anything? As if an oath matters to a cop? As if cops have some moral high ground that assures us that they take oaths seriously?

Let me drag you into reality: Virtually ALL cops commit perjury. That is a fact. It is known and understood, and sadly tolerated, by judges and prosecutors for rerasons that are too detailed to go into here.

Cops will lie under oath, whether it be on the stand or on an affadavit, if they believe that it will help convict the accused, and if they believe that there exists no hard proof of their deceptions. That is why most cops HATE video and audio taping...and why they raise hell with photographers..they want to be able to lie without anyone proving differently.

Since cops are willing to ignore oaths when they believe that it suits a higher purpose, we cannot assume that they will abide by any oath; if they will perjure, they will do other serious crimes as well. Cops see the system as biased against them, favoring the horrible criminal...they would love it if our system was Judge Dredd style and they were cop, judge jury and executioner....of course we have to be able to trust them, but people who cannot abide an oath can hardly be trusted with ayhting, can they?

I do not believe anything that a cop says. They admit that they can legally LIE to get people to incriminate themselves, and to coerce confessions...so when they open their mouths I assume a lie is forthcoming. Cops must prove anything they say ...no one can believe them.

It is a sad fact: The old days are gone: Cops today are not our friends, but are ready to ruin our lives to selectively enforce laws made by crooked politicians even when we are botheirng no one...I can quote case after case..but the idea is this: Never trust a cop...ever.