Prayer, religious funding bills find backing in House and Senate

www.tampabay.com...

Republican senators sat aghast Tuesday as Pace High School principal Frank Lay described the religious ban at his public school.

"They stopped wearing crosses," he said of the Panhandle school's faculty. "They put their Bibles away."

Sen. Stephen Wise, R-Jacksonville, urged action.

"We can lose our freedoms in America very fast," he warned.

Under a measure sponsored by Wise, teachers would be allowed to pray with children, behavior long frowned upon by opponents who say mixing faith and public schools marginalizes some students. The legislation passed unanimously Tuesday in the Senate's Education PreK-12 Committee, with proponents defending it as a necessary protection of free speech. Versions of the bill (SB 1580/HB 31) have sailed through other committees in both the Senate and House.

If approved by three-fifths of the House and Senate, the bill (SJR 2550/HB 1399) would be one of many sweeping changes facing voters on the November ballot. It needs 60 percent of the vote to become law.

The bill amounts to "government-run religion," said Courtenay Strickland, director of public policy at the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, which organized a news conference against the legislation at the Capitol earlier this week.

I don't want my tax dollars being spent on sending kids to some private christian school. I damn sure wouldn't want my child to be around freaks praying in class led by a teacher!.(I don't have kids, I'm just saying).

What will they say when a Muslim teacher leads an Islamic prayer in class? Will they tell him/her they can't do that? Well no because that would be racist against another persons religion! They say we are a Judeo-Christian nation, I thought we were a Secular Republic.

So let's add it up, we aren't taught evolution but we can be forced to deal with other peoples prayers led by a teacher! Screw this backwards hillbilly state! When I was in school a couple years back our teacher made us do the pledge of allegiance then hold for a moment of silence for the troops. The teacher was praying and so were the other students. I did not pledge allegiance OR pray. A kid next to me always complained in front of the whole class to the teacher that I won't pledge allegiance or say "under god". I told them I didn't believe in that crap and I was herassed the whole school year. The next year I dropped out became home schooled.

Religion in school is a bad thing, and so is "under god" in the pledge of allegiance.

[edit on 5/2/10 by Misoir]

reply to post by Misoir

I don't want my tax dollars being spent on sending kids to some private christian school. I damn sure wouldn't want my child to be around freaks praying in class led by a teacher!

Why not? Fact is, the kids would get a way better education and score way higher on proficiency exams and for a whole lot less money per student than our pathetic public school system.

Beyond that the kids might even learn a few things about good character and their responsibility to those around them. They might learn the importance of truth and helping out their fellow man. They might even learn the dangers of having sex with whoever you want whenever you want and the negative effects of unwanted pregnancy.

Doesn't sound so horrible does it?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by SlickOil]

reply to post by SlickOil


If you want your kid to go to a private school then send them to a private school. Public schools are public for a reason, they are publicly funded and they serve the public. Private schools are private and they serve the private individual, which is not supposed to be funded by the public.

reply to post by Misoir


Yeah but why pay more for worse results? Why can't there be a series of private schools? Some for Christians, some for Muslims, some for Atheists, etc.... What is wrong with that? You would spend less than half per student and if the school wasn't producing results the parents would just move there kids to another school using school vouchers.

The school system in this country is a trainwreck because there is little competition.

Oh and by the way... I do send my kids to private school. It just sucks that I have to pay property taxes to send other kids to school and at the same time pay extra to send mine to a DECENT school.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by SlickOil]

reply to post by SlickOil


I never said we should not have private schools, I just said we should not be publicly funding it.

Do you think they would allow school vouchers to schools that teach atheism? NO! People would go nuts. So why have it for christian schools?

[edit on 5/2/10 by Misoir]

reply to post by Misoir


LOL, of course they would provide public funds for an Atheist school system. Isn't that what the public school system is now, an Atheist school system?

I don't live in USA, but public school does not equal atheist school. It does not as far as I am aware teach anything to do with religion. Which is not the same as being atheist.

In the "real world", meaning after school, you have to be able to come together as humans, rather than as Jews, Christians, Muslims, Canadians, Irish, you get my point, in order to solve local, provincial/state, national and global problems.

To have been taught at such an early age that we are segregated by religion and geography in wants, needs, hopes and dreams is sick.

We have more in common with our fellow humans than most would like to think, or teach our children.

It is the teaching that we are different in these aspects that gets me furious.

If the bill they're talking about in the article is this one, then I don't see the problem here.

A bill to be entitled
An act relating to public education; creating s. 1003.4505, F.S.; authorizing district school boards to permit the delivery of an inspirational message at a noncompulsory high school event; providing purpose; providing an effective date.

Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida:
Section 1. Section 1003.4505, Florida Statutes, is created to read:

1003.4505 Inspirational message.—

(1) District school boards are authorized, but not required, to permit the delivery of an inspirational message, including a prayer or an invocation, at a noncompulsory high school activity, including a student assembly, a sports event, or other school-related activity, if a majority of the participating students request the delivery of an inspirational message and select a student representative to deliver the message.

(2) The purpose of this section is to provide for the solemnization and memorialization of noncompulsory high school events and ceremonies. This section shall not prohibit a school or school official from disciplining students in regard to unprotected speech or behavior that is inappropriate or disruptive.

That's it. That's the entire bill right there. This isn't requiring schools there to hold prayers led by teachers. It's permits school boards to allow students to lead a prayer if the majority of the participating students wants one at non-compulsory activities.

Where's the issue?

Originally posted by SlickOil
reply to post by Misoir

 

LOL, of course they would provide public funds for an Atheist school system. Isn't that what the public school system is now, an Atheist school system?

No, it doesn't tell you to disbelieve.

(Don't even use evolution as an excuse)

Originally posted by SlickOil
reply to post by Misoir

 

LOL, of course they would provide public funds for an Atheist school system. Isn't that what the public school system is now, an Atheist school system?

Public schools are secular which means they are neither religious or atheist. They don't teach creationism or evolution. The religious lunatics think unless you are teaching religion you are atheist.

reply to post by Jenna


I know what the bill means. But from personal experience I can tell you it's a bad idea. I refused to say the pledge because I did not want to say "under god". A student kept making a scene in class complaining to the teacher that I won't say the pledge of allegiance. I eventually went off and told them I don't believe in god and all the stupid crap. I was herassed the whole year.

People are intollerant to non-religious people, and any kids that hold out of the 'optional prayer' will be bullied or worse just for his/her belief(or lack thereof).

Originally posted by SlickOil
reply to post by Misoir

 

.

The school system in this country is a trainwreck because there is little competition.

Wrong, the public school system is crap in the US due to cuts in funding at the federal level, it has not been a real school reform in this nation in almost 4 decades, the no child left behind was nothing but BS.

But now the state wants to use public funds to pay for prayers legislation?, sounds really moronic to me.

They depend on Federal funding for education but rather use money for promoting religion.

No wonder we keep getting behind every day when it compare to education in other developed nations in the world.

We are ranking the lowest in sciences and math.

reply to post by Misoir


These are optional prayers at optional events. No student will be required to be there to hear the prayer if one is said so I'm still not seeing the issue here. This won't apply to pep rallies during the middle of a school day that all students are required to attend. It's been my experience that those who are overly vocal about their belief in their god while in school get more teasing than those who don't voice an opinion on the matter or who say they don't believe in one.

reply to post by marg6043


I quoted the entire bill. It's not a bill to install prayer in school.

reply to post by Phlynx


Well it sure as hell doesn't encourage you to believe. It is Atheist. Devoid of any mention of God or any form of God. How are you going to teach not to believe? How do you teach nothing?

Tell me Misoir, where do you get your schooling.

Kind of hypocritical aren't you? I thought you were home schooled?

Do you feel that others do not deserve to make a choice where to send their kids?

Raising ones child the way one wants to, is the hallmark of a free society.

That does not do well in a sheeple society though.

Do not want those public school children to actually learn, that they have rights. Better for them to believe everything comes from government and at the end of a barrel of a gun.

Seems to be working over the past 30 years, huh?

[edit on 5/2/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Jenna


Thanks Jenna for the info, here in Ga we got the "minute of silence" everyday is actually prayer time but they "change" the name to avoid controversy.

Now the bill will make specific that is prayer time.

reply to post by marg6043


LOL, well prayers arent going to make it any worse. The problem has many roots:Children who weren't taught by their parents to respect authority, parents that would rather by some drugs or spinners than feed their kids, unions who wont let schools adapt to the needs of the students, an ideology that says more money equals better education even when it clearly doesnt, etc

reply to post by SlickOil


Prayers from what religion?

Not all public school children come from atheist homes or of the same religious upbringing. There are many many religions that must be given the same treatment. Choosing one over the other just segregates us more.

reply to post by endisnighe


It seems pretty hypocritical of you not to adequately read my posts. I said that parents should be 100% allowed to send their children to private schools if they want. I am prefectly fine with that and so should everyone else. But the public should not be funding private schools.

FYI My homeschooling was considered public because I went to a public school online at home. They have that here in FL.