Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

reply to post by kinda kurious


...Enter the RFID Identifications.....

Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Was it just a weigh station or the first weigh station he encounters in Arizona on his route? Huge difference between the two. And if you think this was excessive, never drive a truck into New Mexico. They want all documents, including the separate Fuel Tax certificate and separate operator's insurance that are specifically for New Mexico. All your inspection stickers better be up to date on both the truck and the trailer as well.

New Mexico, in some aspects, is worse on truck drivers than California is.

This was near Pheonix on the route 202 loop (from what I understand from the article and looking on a map). It is no where near the border...not even close.

I realize the documentation that truckers need...my dad was a truck driver for 30+ years...never carried his birth certificate or any other ID besides his CDL and he did carry his SS card.

Fuel Tax cert, insurance, vehicle inspections....all fine...all about regulations and safety. HANDCUFFING YOU AND DETAINING YOU because you don't carry your birth certificate....HOW can you defend that???


Please..let me know for this ONE case...do you think the law enforcement was correct in handcuffing him and detaining him after he produced his CDL and gave his SSN...and that wasn't enough...all because of his skin tone??? Remember...this is an American Citizen...born an American citizen...try to block out the color of his skin for ONE SECOND.

If I just told you an American citizen was handcuffed and detained after showing his CDL and giving his SSN because they thought he was illegal...would you still just be like..."oh well...he is a truck driver"????

I'll give you another question too...what if an American Citizen was in MEXICO with a valid passport....and they detained them??? I'm sure you would be outraged....right??? So why no outrage here???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Why even bother, but what the hell.

Ever been pulled over in a large city?

Ever been confronted by police officers?

Ever been on a thread here and actually came to the conclusion the police state is getting out of hand?

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is getting to big?

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is taxing us too much?

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is trying to CONTROL every aspect of our lives?

Hmmmmmmmm. I think people are beginning to SEE why the TEA PARTY MOVEMENT HAS BECOME.



Hehehehehehe, Outkast has become an ADVOCATE of the TPM!

reply to post by endisnighe

Ever been pulled over in a large city?

Yep...never had a problem with it though...what's the point?

Ever been confronted by police officers?

Ummmm....Yes...and have always walked away from it unharmed.

Ever been on a thread here and actually came to the conclusion the police state is getting out of hand?

I beleive that is what I am doing in this thread...and YOU are the one promoting these police state actions.

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is getting to big?

I don't think the government is getting too big...in this case it is becoming too intrusive. But "too big" is hard to define...it isn't an exact measurment.

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is taxing us too much?

They are...they are taxing middle class and below too much...taxing higher classes too little And btw...."middle class" to me IS 200k and below...I would even say 100k and below. What do you think "middle" class is....500k????

Ever going to admit that the GOVERNMENT is trying to CONTROL every aspect of our lives?

I go through my day not worrying one bit about the "control" the government has over me as an individual. I don't think government has enough control over some industries that need to be regulated.

Hmmmmmmmm. I think people are beginning to SEE why the TEA PARTY MOVEMENT HAS BECOME.

Hehehehehehe, Outkast has become an ADVOCATE of the TPM!

The TPM is a corporate endevour promoted and funded by the GOP (or those with stakes in the GOP). I don't support Fox News side projects...but apparently you do.

A commercial drivers license and a social security card should be more than enough documentation.

However, if we aren't getting the full story here, and he was crossing the Mexico border, then he needs additional documentation, just as I would need if going to Canada and coming back, etc.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Not saying that the officer doesn't need a serious vacation in a nice secure spot for the next 5-10 years. Heck, I would have been tempted to check his head to see if he was a little low on air, myself, if it were me in the situation.

Because he is a truck driver is not an excuse to cuff and stuff him. In the old days when word of this got out, good luck to the people in Arizona getting anything trucked in a timely fashion.

But in today's world, most drivers will just shrug and say glad it wasn't me. Not that it is right or that it is fair, just simply that is the way it is.

But with all things, there is more than one side to a story. And I will go out on a limb to say there just might be more to it than what was reported. Or does anyone else remember the other three people in the car getting out and being peacefully handcuffed in the Rodney King beating video?

Always remember that the LA Riots over the King verdict were a direct result of the media not showing the whole video.

reply to post by Gazrok


The article says it was on Route 202/Val Vista...I'm not a native of Arizona but from looking at maps (and another poster confirmed), this is near Phoenix...actually more towards Mesa. So it isn't near the border and it wouldn't of been his first weigh station stop after the border if he was coming from Mexico...but there is no indication that he was.

So to me there is no justification in these actions...I just can't understand why some here on ATS think there is justification for it.

Originally posted by Common Good
I read the article, and I really dont see why they are bitching.
The guy got pulled over, was asked for information on who he was(normal)and he didnt have it. They arrested him for not providing his identity.
And doesnt he know, that AZ is cracking down on illegal immigration like crazy right now?

Where did it say he didn't have the documentation like a drivers license which of course he would need in order to drive a semi. With a class A or B (can't remember which now anymore since it's been a LONG time even discussing it). So I wouldn't jump quite to those conclusions that he didn't have the documentation like that.

However, I know of a few illegals that were able to get driver's licenses in Washington State so in a way I can understand the grilling. It just sucks that it has come to this.

I say good for the cops. Let the game begin. Start pulling over anyone
if they please. Start cracking down on this immigration crap, period.
Put out the word that if you are driving in Arizona, prepare to have your
papers in order. If you drove into Mexico, does anyone even begin to
realize what hoops a person has to jump through? Why should it be any
different here in the states? The illegals have drained this country of
free this, free that, give me, give me, give me while at the same time
sending all of their money to Mexico. If it is too hard for you to have your
papers with you, then start taking the bus or call a cab. With the money
this country will save by rounding up illegals, we can hire thousands of
law enforcement personnel to round up even more, and we can slowly
start to clear the country of this disease that has spread like flies.

Once again you folks aren't grasping how serious the government takes truck drivers.
take a gander at the form you need to fill out just apply for
Driver's License Hazardous Materials

Pay close attention to this section

Part B. Permanently Disqualifying Criminal Offenses
A driver will be permanently disqualified from holding a hazmat endorsement on a CDL if he or she was ever convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of any of the following crimes:
Espionage
Sedition
Treason
Any crime listed in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 113B – Terrorism or a comparable state law
A crime involving a severe transportation security incident (i.e., security incident involving a significant loss of life, environmental damage, transportation system disruption, or economic disruption in a particular area)
Improper transportation of a hazardous material under 49 U.S.C. 5124 or a comparable state law (minor infractions involving transportation of hazardous materials will not disqualify a driver. For instance, no driver will be disqualified for minor roadside infractions or placarding violations.)
Unlawful possession, use, sale, distribution, manufacture, purchase, receipt, transfer, shipping, transporting, import, export, storage of, or dealing in an explosive or explosive device
Murder as defined in 18 U.S.C. 1111
Conspiracy or attempt to commit any of these crimes
Violations of RICO (Racketeer Influence and Corrupt Organizations) Act or a comparable state law of one of these Permanently Disqualifying crimes

we're in a completely different class than a normal driver...and you cant used the same standard to judge

Originally posted by digifanatic
And doesn't racial profiling happen in airports anyway?

Profiling happens every day by everyone on earth. It is a basic fundamental of how our memory works and how our brain logically thinks things through. So you are walking down the street and a group of old ladies pass you and so your brain triggers a response based on profiling and your actions are based on that profiling. The same is with a group of young adults that walk towards you. The difference is you might get scared from the young adults and you walk to the other side of the street, and so you just profiled in a negitive way…shame on you!

So today this is all wrong to do, and we end up hiding it even though it will always be there…always…in every thought process our brain has. But we do things like strip search the 90 year old woman in a room close to another room with a young Muslin male with a one way ticket to show that we do not do this….geez.

So now we head off to AZ where the group that is targeted just happens to be made up of 99% Mexicans, and so we cannot profile in any way, but we do anyways because once again that is how our brain works. Even when we hide it by pulling over that old couple out on a Sunday drive the focus is that truck full of Spanish looking males.

So who should a person be pissed at when they fit a negative profile? That young black male who looks just like the gang members in east LA, That young white male that looks like a college person, but driving through a drug infested area, or even that person with Mexican heritage that lives and works in like situations of a million Mexican illegals. It seems the blame is always on the profiling and not what actually caused the profiling in the first place.

Illegal immigration in this country needs to be dealt with swiftly and aggressively using whatever means necessary, while doing so in a civilized manner.

While this incident is an unfortunate occurrence for this gentleman, the strict measures pertaining to his treatment can only be blamed on folks of his own descent of whom have been ILLEGALLY gaining access to American territory in MASSIVE amounts daily for a VERY long time now. The time is PAST DUE for authorities to rectify the problem with an aggressive approach to stop these crimes.

Drivers licenses are easily duplicated to appear nearly identical to state issued cards. Requiring drivers to submit further proof is without doubt necessary to counter the criminals clever attempts to pass fraudulent documentation as real identity. This SMALL inconvenience is needed to combat criminals illegally entering our territories to mooch off a system to which LEGAL citizens have PAID into by BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS.

This country is currently in poor economic shape, and it MUST rid itself of those illegally eating the fruits of our system by those whom have not EARNED it. Anyone fitting the description of those crossing our borders illegally simply need to obtain their proper identity while driving on our public roadways. This MINOR inconvenience is NECESSARY and PAST DUE.


[edit on 23-4-2010 by Captain_Sense]

Originally posted by Gazrok
A commercial drivers license and a social security card should be more than enough documentation.

However, if we aren't getting the full story here, and he was crossing the Mexico border, then he needs additional documentation, just as I would need if going to Canada and coming back, etc.

You need a passport now for both Mexico and Canada, so if he was traveling in or out of Mexico he should have had a passport.

Personally I see both a SS card and a birth cert as poor proof since both are the easiest to fake. Also I do not carry either even though I have maybe 4 or 5 photo IDs on me.

On the other hand in the future when I go through AZ I'm making sure I have my passport near since that is our best proof.

The only way to truly determine the validity is not only checking and ID but to check that ID against a database that would have a picture of the person too. I don’t see where a birth cert or SS card would have this ability, but a DL or state ID would have the picture, address etc to match up.

reply to post by DaddyBare


We grasp it just fine. Doesn't change that to get a CDL you have to have a regular driver's license. Every state I've checked so far requires you to prove you're in the country legally to get a regular driver's license. Therefore, people who have a CDL have already proven they're here legally whether it's because they are a citizen, here on a visa, a refugee, permanent resident, or whatever. No need for any truck driver to have to prove it again unless they are crossing back into the country from Mexico or Canada in which case everyone has to, not just truck drivers.

Whoa, this thread is moving fast!


reply to post by Ahabstar

Ah, the Bozo.... I used to listen to him religiously! Thank you for the memories!

My trainer actually told me while we were out that he quit asking coops to do inspections for his trainees because they didn't like doing it any more. He had a couple absolutely refuse him (mainly because the companies used to pay out bonuses for perfect inspections and the officers didn't like working so we could get paid more ) so he just quit asking.

I'm glad you brought up the 'clean, fresh linens' rule.... that thing is so old and antiquated it is ridiculous, but some still decide to pull it out of mothballs... mainly when they want to give a ticket and can't find anything else... I never carried them myself, but I know about the rule. I found out early on that if you act dumb and say 'sir' every other breath, the coops tend to give you a lick and a promise and send you on your way. The thick Southern drawl helped too, I think.

I loved OTR, but it was taking too much of me away from two teenage kids. My retirement plans are for me to buy a truck and lease it on with someone and hit the road with my wife when they get grown and settled. No worries about getting home at a certain time for a school event, no concerns about trying to keep food on the table in two places, and no loneliness on those cold dark nights parked alongside the PA Turnpike... heaven!

You are probably more familiar with the FAST card than I am. When it was introduced, I had already decided that I hadn't lost anything in Canada and thus had no reason to go back. A friend who just retired from Celadon told me about it.

TheRedneck

The article states, and I quote, "He produced a drivers licence and a social security NUMBER". Not a card people, a NUMBER.

"My name Juan Sanchez and my social security is 602-55-10##. What, you don't believe me? I TOLD you what my number is and now you want physical proof? What, are you a nazi or something?, is it because I'm mexican? Are you racially profiling me?, what is that chip you're trying to put in my arm?"

Are you starting to see how ignorant and pathetic the argument against this is?

Again, if you don't like what Arizona is becoming, don't come here.

If I were you guys, I wouldn't worry about the govt. getting too big and powerful and controlling everything. They can't even stop illegal immigrants from coming into their country via Arizona. How stupid did they have to be to let that happen?

We in Arizona know first hand how ignorant and incompetant the govt. is simply by their ineptitude in dealing with this matter. That's why the state itself has to take matters into their own hands.

Jan brewer has my vote


Peace

reply to post by dgtempe

What about California?
And New Mexico.
And Texas.

Trust me, their time is coming. Arizona probably just had their fill of the trouble first.

Frankly, you make good sense, but having lived in Tempe, and having travelled all over the Southwest, i frankly cant say i encountered many bad Mexicans at all. They were good hard working people. True, they have absolutely NO right to be here without documentation.

Don't misunderstand me, DG... I am as against this law as you are. I just understand why it has come to pass, and that is quite a different thing than being for it.

Most Mexicans I have met are good, hard-working people that I would gladly allow in should they simply get the needed paperwork. Heck, when I worked for a Texas carrier, the Mexicans in the shop were the ones I went to if I needed anything. They would jump right on it, and usually do a more thorough job.

These are the first group I mentioned in my post, and the largest. I truly have sympathy for them. I simply know that I (we) can't help them all at once. There has to be some control over who is coming in. Our present system allows them in, but then punishes them by keeping them poor and enslaved, linking them to the last group, the criminals, in the public mind, and then arbitrarily rounding them up and shipping them home. That's not compassion!

And so, we now have this law that restricts everyone's movement and infringes upon everyone's rights. That is the price we pay for our fake compassion.

I recall some time back there was a huge dissension about whether or not we needed a fence along the border. Some were for it, claiming it was the only way to stop illegal immigration.... others opposed it, likening it to the Berlin Wall. Well, it never went up, and the frustration has set in. This is the result of not allowing the Federal government to do its job. And you are right, this kind of thing will progress, first along the border states and then into the heart of the country. The states can't afford to not implement something like this. Look at how many are broke, among them notably California.

Again, I don't like it, but I understand it.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

Yes, I was coming back from another country, but see the rest of my posts... the same requirements and equipment are now being deployed and used across the country itself.

Considering that truck drivers are vetted tremendously by most reputable companies, and that we have to stand up to stringer standards (blood alcohol is .04% for us, not .06% like most states, and that is in any vehicle we are operating; any drug charge, even if dismissed, will make it extremely difficult to get a job for life; pre-employment, incident, and random drug tests are mandatory and regulated by the USDOT; accidents are recorded not under the headings of 'liable' or 'not liable', but under the heading of 'preventable' and 'non-preventable' and that is all determined by your employer; DAC keeps a running record of anything a driver ever does, like a credit report on your entire life) than other drivers, what is the purpose of all these checks and regulations?

Money. It's the only reasonable answer.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

The article states, and I quote, "He produced a drivers licence and a social security NUMBER". Not a card people, a NUMBER.

YES...and that should be enough if you understand the requirements needed to obtain a CDL in Arizona.

Do you not even care that a US citizen was just detained for no other reason than his skin tone???

Again, if you don't like what Arizona is becoming, don't come here.

That's great...America...land of the free...except for the backwards state of Arizona...don't go there...they are nazis.

If I were you guys, I wouldn't worry about the govt. getting too big and powerful and controlling everything. They can't even stop illegal immigrants from coming into their country via Arizona. How stupid did they have to be to let that happen?

This shows that you have no idea what is going on at all and are a victim (most likely wilfully) of propaganda.

First...why are you blaming the federal government when you should be blaming your own state government??? It is their fault that they have allowed employers to freely employ illegal immigrants with no penalties...NOT the federal government.

And you think they are "stupid" because this happened...no...they did it on purpose BECAUSE IT MADE THE STATE MONEY. Sure...it didn't help the residents of Az...but it made the state a ton of money and attracted more and more business to the state. You are misguided in your thinking that this is the failure of the fed. government and that Az government is an innocent victim. Open your eye...the Az government has benefited from this...and the only reason they are acting now is to gain political votes. Don't you find it funny this only becomes an issue around election time???

You my friend have bought their propaganda and are acting like their little puppet.

We in Arizona know first hand how ignorant and incompetant the govt. is simply by their ineptitude in dealing with this matter. That's why the state itself has to take matters into their own hands.

Why are you so dependent on the federal government...isn't that part of the problem in itself???

Wait a minute.... something isn't quite right here...

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked.

Source: www.azfamily.com...

Now, any USDOT certified officer, and that normally includes any state officer and certainly those involved in the check stations, has the right to pull over any commercial vehicle and inspect it on the spot. Period. I also know that there is a national database of trucks authorized for operation in the United States; I saw it at a Colorado weigh station once right outside of Denver. All they have to do is type in the DOT number and everything any cop ever wanted to know about that truck pops up on the screen: previous OOS orders, tickets issued, accidents, authorization, fuel tax history... everything! So why couldn't the truck be checked?

Every truck is required to carry the base tag registration, fuel tax license, proof of insurance, and authority certification. All of these list either the VIN number or the USDOT number, either of which would have allowed for the truck registration and authority to be checked, and even if he did not have those, the VIN number is stamped on it just like in a car. Did he not have a permit book? Was the VIN number legible? Were the officers USDOT certified? If not, why was anyone interested in a birth certificate?

Something is starting to smell a little fishy here....

TheRedneck