Why More U.S. Expatriates Are Turning In Their Passports

reply to post by DaddyBare


Most of these people are not just now moving from the US, they have been living abroad for years. These US citizens are paying out their income for taxes, rent/mortgage, utilities, auto/fuel, and food, to/in the countries they live and work in. There is no reason for them to pay taxes to the US as well...it's simply stingy greed on the US governments part.

Just saying, if I weren't living in the US...I certainly wouldn't want to be forced to pay the US government to keep my citizenship...which is my birthright.

Edited for errors.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by SheaWolf]

reply to post by Josephus23

Congress may ratify amendments, but they can still be unconstitutional.

Congress does not ratify amendments, they propose them.

The States ratify them, and if enough do (two thirds of the states at the time of the proposal) it becomes part of the Constitution.

The Constitution cannot be unconstitutional.

Watch this little flick on the concept of jury nullification for a better understanding.

The 'little flick' makes a grievous error in its argument (many possibly but I'll just mention this one). It states that there is not mention in the Constitution about "welfare". Need I remind you:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Anyone who is so ignorant of the Constitution that they don't even recognise that one of the main purposes of the Constitution was to promote the general Welfare has no business being a reference point to anyone else.

Fail. And fail badly.

[edit on 22/4/2010 by rnaa]

reply to post by daddio

I have stated it before and will state it again, UNLESS.....unless you were BORN in federal territory, YOU ARE NOT a U.S. citizen. You are an AMERICAN National.

Is that the basis for a new line of reasoning on the Obama eligablity farce?

That only people born in a federal territory are "Natural Born Citizens"? After all if you aren't a 'U.S. citizen' but 'only' an 'AMERICAN National' then how can you be a Natural Born Citizen?

Kinda restricts the pool of eligible Presidential candidates doesn't it?

reply to post by Josephus23

Let me repeat myself.

****It is entirely possible for Congress to ratify an amendment that is not constitutional.*****

Let me repeat myself.

Congress doesn't ratify amendments. States do. And when they do it becomes part of the Constitution.

Part of the Constitution is part of the Constitution. It cannot be unconstitutional because it is part of the Constitution.

Congress can pass laws that are unconstitutional. Laws are not part of the Constitution.

Which part of that do you not understand?

[edit on 22/4/2010 by rnaa]

Another great thread by Proto.
In the past, I have been prepping for survival here in the US but recently I'm not so convinced it's the place to be for my family. If I was single and alone, no problem. I know how to make fire, build shelters, fish, and other natural living skills yet I rarely have the time to build them into a self sufficient lifestyle. My grandparents lived through the Great Depression but the people of that day were of a higher stock. They were not dependent upon the government but had to make their way through life by living simply. I've looked into having a retreat cabin with well water and a garden space but even that's not likely to cut it if the American nightmare develops.

The cards can be played out so many ways. A war starts with Iran, American Jihad cells erupt in violence, followed by marital law and images of scared people on the MSM telling us how happy they are to have military personal on the streets protecting them from extremists and rounding up those trouble makers who own guns. A lot of people would die giving up their guns or after the fact if the mexican drug cartels decide to take another run at the Alamo on a disarmed population. Perhaps I've been spending way too much time on ATS.

Even if I did have a remote valley with gardens and food, what do you do about the wandering masses from the cities who simply want their children to eat. It's really sad when you think about what could happen and what it seems we are being steered towards.

Living in a scout pit is no place to raise a family and I am working towards leaving this country. I really don't want to proceed with that plan but I want a better future for my children.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I absolutely agree. Representation is always better in smaller groups. I feel that is what the constitution was intended to create. Thats why it left so much power to the states and cities. I feel the way we are supposed to be organized is much tighter smaller communities such as city governments, and then moving into the counties and states and then to the federal government. I believe the founding fathers foresaw the problems we have today with the large population and unwieldy government.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by simon2k7

 

All you have to do is file an amended return and an extension. You don't get in trouble for not having the money, you get in trouble for filing false information.

Yes you owe the money. However if you are in the bottom 45% of wage earners, you don't pay any anyway. Depends on your income level. It would only really hurt you if you are in say the top ten percent.

I often wonder if people not from here realize that nearly all taxes are paid by the top twenty five percent and that almost half of us pay no income taxes at all. Lord knows the US haters try to hide that fact all of the time.

At least some folks are talking sense and refused to be manipulated.

The rich are winning with each protest against taxation.

What is taxes all about? It's not going to line the pockets of the federal or state administrators. It is use to meed social needs such as education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc. Everyone, including the rich will ultimately benefit from it.

As a society grows, so too will its social needs to meet an ever higher increase in majority citizens expectations.

The minority and are poor who have no such lofty expectations are taken into account as well - they pay no taxes and need not spend on luxury goods, healthcare or education and thus avoiding taxes.

It is only right that those who go overseas to be taxed if they earn a substantial income. They were beneficiaries of the American system while growing up and should therefore return a debt to american society.

No man does it alone, not even Bill Gates. For all his wealth, he could never pay for the communications infrastructure construction bill that he earned his wealth from.

Furthermore, those americans working overseas are paid substantially higher with expat priviledges - home, cars, subsidised education, etc, paid by the company. He would be more likely living in a 3rd world nation, where expenses are considerably lower.

While his freedoms may be curtailed living there, it is his choice sacrificed on the alter of greed or neccesity. He would thus have very much funds left over for savings, if he does not opt for opulent living.

It is only fair that he contributes instead such oppulence and share his wealth from overseas ( not talking about local companies and workers here), a small portion of it, back to his society.

There will be many arguments on how a society's fund should be spent, and the most critical of all is - spending on borrowed money. It must end. Those interest payments to the rich could have built more hospitals to save lives.

But the problem is not taxes or the concept of it. It is how it should be spent, and this is the vital point that the rich and poor should excercise their vote upon, and not to cut or lower taxes, as it will only benefit the fat cats who sponged off society for the past years and seek to manipulate the masses to protest in their favoured aspect on tax issues.

Peace.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

What is taxes all about? It's not going to line the pockets of the federal or state administrators. It is use to meed social needs such as education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc. Everyone, including the rich will ultimately benefit from it.

Makes me wonder where you are seeking the truth from?

This is a total falsehood, and I can't believe anyone would be so foolish to say it!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f06e77c25743.jpg[/atsimg]

The amount devoted to Education in the Federal Budget is actually less than the interest payments on past Military endeavors that were financed.

Social Security is a seperate Tax, Medicare is a Seperate Tax.

Your Federal Taxes go to paying for a whole lot of MILITARY and INTEREST not education.

It's a shame we can't have an intelligent conversation about taxation!

Who is the one perpetrating falsehoods here? And why the need to use arguments about use of tax, when the thread you started is SPECIFICALLY about OVERSEAS AMERCAN EXPATRIATES was being 'over-taxed' and not about where the taxes went, which I even bothered to helped out?

Should one agrees with you, then is considered 'intelligent' conversation, in an open forum? Have americans lost their 1st amendment right?

Truth is not determined by you alone. May the other silent readers discern it for themselves, I trust in their impartiality and intelligence.

Peace.



[edit on 22-4-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Who here that has posted to this feel they have paid too much taxes? Also give us a percentage..ok?
Then we can compare it to the rest of the world. I personally pay a good chunk of taxes but I do not feel it is excessive, now with that said I’m afraid of future taxes, but then that is a fear and not a fact yet, so I do not see any reason just yet for turning in your passport….


So US is max is 35% Fed and 12% state...

Australia is max 45% fed and 6% state...

What the hell is he complaining about...hehe

I'm in Melbourne and I meet a lot of US expats through my workplace. Almost all of them are great people and love to have a chat. I find that many still love their homeland, but are sick and tired of the way things are going in the US.

Australia is a great place. Its too bad a lot of expats are arrogant pricks. Moreso the European variety however.

95% of the yanks I've met have been awesome.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Who is the one perpetrating falsehoods here? And why the need to use arguments about use of tax, when the thread you started is SPECIFICALLY about OVERSEAS AMERCAN EXPATRIATES was being 'over-taxed' and not about where the taxes went, which I even bothered to helped out?

Should one agrees with you, then is considered 'intelligent' conversation, in an open forum? Have americans lost their 1st amendment right?

Truth is not determined by you alone. May the other silent readers discern it for themselves, I trust in their impartiality and intelligence.

So in other words confronted with evidence that your assertion that taxes go primarily for education and welfare is false, and that the bulk of the money goes to military endeavors and interest on loans for military endeavors, you have no comment, beyond asking a series of deflective questions?

Which causes me to ask seeker of truth, since the truth is, that what the government spends money on, is in fact a matter of Public Record, and subject to audit and reconcilement by the Government Accounting Office, and what the money is really spent on is easily verifiable, why aren't you actually interested in seeking the truth?

The truth of numbers are very simple, they are not subjective like some other truths, 2 + 2 always equals 4, never 5 or 3.

If you had 4 dollars and spent it at the grocery store, and were given a reciept for it, this is not subjective either. It's a matter of numbers which never lie, it's a matter of public documentation.

The truth is not about who is right or wrong, the truth is simply the truth.

The truth is that the vast majority of the Federal Budget goes to Military Spending, and thats a matter of public record.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Who here that has posted to this feel they have paid too much taxes? Also give us a percentage..ok?
Then we can compare it to the rest of the world. I personally pay a good chunk of taxes but I do not feel it is excessive, now with that said I’m afraid of future taxes, but then that is a fear and not a fact yet, so I do not see any reason just yet for turning in your passport….


So US is max is 35% Fed and 12% state...

Australia is max 45% fed and 6% state...

What the hell is he complaining about...hehe

Heaven forbid you spend that money on yourself or your family.

Let me help you out. If you go in for a car loan, the lender is not going to want your payment to exceed 25% of your income.

If you go in for a home loan, the lender is not going to want your payment to exceed 25% of your income.

Why on earth would you pay the government more money than you do for your own home and car combined?

What could they possibly be giving you of value for that, that has a greater value to you than your home and car?

By the way how other people budget their money and reconcile and justify their expenses is meaningless to me, it's how I do it that matters.

Someone else has it worse, you are only getting screwed 2/3rds as bad, so don't complain arguments are really????

There just aren't words for it!

Reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have to say. I am of the opinion that this entire article from TIME is propaganda for a one world government. I think it is supposed to excite sympathy in the general public for the Americans overseas that have had to expatriate for lack of a "one world government". I'm sure if you think about it for a moment you'll see what I mean. Afterall, TIME Magazine and its parent corporation and all subsidiaries of that parent corporation are part of the propaganda machine of the Romans.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I'll not be going anywhere.

Back when I was doing overseas work, the first substantial chunk of what an American made overseas wasn't taxable, assuming he/she spent enough time overseas. As I recall, the last contract I checked into was in 2004, and the first 80,000 dollars was not taxed if I stayed continuously outside the US for 330 days out of the year. Not a problem, the contract was for a year, with 4 weeks R+R that I could take anywhere outside of the host nation - I didn't have to come back stateside for it. The other 80,000 out of that contract would have been taxable. Again, not a problem. The first half of it , plus the remains of the 2nd half after governmental vultures got through picking through it would have been more than sufficient.

As it turned out, I turned down that contract (it was in Baghdad), and it was probably one of the better decisions I've made in my days, all things considered. 8 of the guys who DID go on it found it not even a little to their liking, and came back after only a couple of months. Evidently the dog-and-pony show was not being properly run. But I digress.

So then, here am I, sitting in the remains of the good 'ol USA. I'll not be going back overseas, ever, for any reason. I've had my run.

Leave because of troubles? Not a chance. I have a personality flaw that generally causes me to run straight INTO trouble. This is my country. It's where I was born, and appears to be where I'll die. The most recent immigrant in my family was well over 200 years ago. Others, up to slightly over 400 years ago, and yet others were here considerably longer ago than even that, waiting on the newcomers.

I'm a Heinz-57 variety sort of American. Whatever their backgrounds or origins, my ancestors built this country, and I'll be damned if some piddlin' bunch of politicians will run me off.

I've nearly outlived my usefulness, and had hoped to spend what of it I have left in peace, away from all the ruckus and fighting, but every passing day it seems that 'they' are not going to allow that. So be it. Bring it on.

I drew my line in the sand here on ATS over a year ago, when I said that they'll not force me into their "health care" *cough - insurance extortion - cough* ponzi schemes, and I stand by it. I meant what I said. I'll not be participating, and God have mercy on the first few that come to press the issue, because I won't. There's no deity about me, and I'm not constrained to be nice about it as deities are reputed to be.

The AMOUNT of taxes I've paid have not generally ever been an issue for me. Matter of fact, there have been times when I've insisted that Uncle Sugar keep more of my income than he claimed was his. It appeared to me that he needed it worse than I did. When I determined that the government was spending it like a crew of drunken brigands in a roadhouse, I just decided that the easiest way to curb my contribution to that abuse was to simply have no income to tax, and that's what I've done. I pay local taxes on property, and whatever taxes are due on what few purchases I make these days, and that's it. I make sure my income never rises to taxable levels, and just cover what I need these days, not necessarily what I just WANT. I don't deal with banks at all. No need to. I try to do my part to starve the beast.

I see dark days ahead. Given my track record, I'll probably live through them, however regrettable that may be. Whether I do or not, whether I live or die, it will be here, in my country, in the land of my forebears.

As I said above, this is where I was born, and this is where I'll die. However, I can certainly see the point of those who opt out, and head for greener pastures. After all, a certain segment of my ancestry came here to begin with to escape just such abuses as I perceive to be looming on the horizon in the very place they found refuge. Be that as it may, I'll not be among them.

I'll not be going anywhere.



[edit on 2010/4/22 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The U.S. is the only nation that charges Citizens living abroad income tax on the money that they earn abroad, even while they are still having to pay Income Tax to the nations that they are working and living in.

How come EXXON does not pay a single cent TAX in the USA, but pays
Tax in other Countries? And it is an American Company.

You say many areleaving America, I'd be ashamed to even admit to being American.

reply to post by daddio

I have stated it before and will state it again, UNLESS.....unless you were BORN in federal territory, YOU ARE NOT a U.S. citizen. You are an AMERICAN National.

Not true, not true, not true, not true!

In United States Law, citizenship can be passed via place of birth or through parents. Go look at any US Embassy website. Here is what the embassy in Germany has to say:

Child born in wedlock to two U.S. citizens:

A child born outside of the United States or its outlying possessions to two U.S. citizen parents is entitled to citizenship, provided one of the parents had, prior to the birth of the child, been resident in the United States or one of its outlying possessions. (No specific period of time is required.)

So, my child is entitled to citizenship since he was born to two US citizens, in wedlock. All I have to do is let the embassy know. Pretty much in any situation a child born overseas to a US citizen has a claim to citizenship.

reply to post by BlackOps719

I get the feeling that in ten years from now we wont even be able to recognize this country where we all grew up and it wont even be the same place culturally.

What do you mean ten years?
It's not the same now - and it hasn't been ever since the 'constitutional free zones' became an accepted FALSE in the USA, by it's People.

If you're going to get out - get out now - no more 'wait and see'...

Learn the language and culture of where you want to go BEFORE you buy your plane ticket, and get out.

EDIT TO ADD:

Neno, I applaud your post and the though and fortitude I know you posses that can back up each and every word you've posted.

Only one thing I will disagree on.

As I said above, this is where I was born, and this is where I'll die. However, I can certainly see the point of those who opt out, and head for greener pastures.

I too once believed as you do, where I was born was where I would die.
And for reasons I will not post on ATS I had to revise my life on that point.

But - leaving the USA and relocating and taking on a new culture and a new language and system of living is by far NOT a greener pasture, in my opinion.

It's hard. Very hard work each and every day.

Sure, that might not be the case depending on where you go, etc, but for me, it's been a witch with a B.

Do I want to go back, sure I do.

Can I?

No.

peace



[edit on 22-4-2010 by silo13]

As an American expat that hasn't been 'home' for about 5 years now I find this a most interesting topic. I haven't actually considered turning in my passport,yet. But America looks a lot different from the outside than the inside.
Taxes might be a factor, but I really think the biggest one is a simple sense of freedom. It might or might not be reality but the simple fact is I feel a lot freer where I am now than I did in the US before I left, I shudder to think how it much be now from what I see on the news.
I visited, for extended periods of at least a couple months, a number of countries before I settled where I have. Every single one seemed freer to me than the US ...maybe I was just lucky.
I will stick where I am, where I can walk down the street any hour of day or night and feel perfectly safe. Where I can enter any building in town without going thru a metal detector, where I can pay cash for anything and nobody raises an eyebrow, where playgrounds don't have fences and old men play chess in the park ... where the local cop walks a beat and says good morning with a smile.
Sounds like I live in time warp doesn't it?

I too am in the process of leaving this country if I am allowed and still alive in the next few months or days. I have started a bio where you will find some answers soon. Probably most will not believe but that is OK I understand where you come from I was once like you. Now all I want to do is find a peaceful place to live out my few remaining years. If your interested in what the shadow government or NWO does then you can start reading this blog angelofdeathandthoughtsonlife.blogspot.com... I started this not only to get the truth out there but to help me make sense of my life. Believe or not believe it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The U.S. is the only nation that charges Citizens living abroad income tax on the money that they earn abroad, even while they are still having to pay Income Tax to the nations that they are working and living in.

Yeah, it bothers me too that I have to tell the IRS how much money I made. In reality though, I don't think that many Americans that reside overseas actually pay taxes in America. Here's why: there are many exemptions and credits that we who are overseas are entitled to. For example, tax doesn't have to be paid on the first $91,000 that is made. On top of that, you get an exemption for tax that you already paid in your country of residence as well as other deductions, such as children. Only the really rich Americans that reside overseas actually end up paying anything, I would wager.

That said, here is one American that isn't going to give up his American nationality anytime soon.