The Earth provides for our every need for free.

reply to post by zaiger

That does not say meat is bad, that is just saying cooked meat can be bad for you. So this is not "vegatarian: this is about eating raw meat.

Let's just make something clear as you have an inability to comprehend what your reading. I'm not against meat, I'm not advocating a strict vegetarian lifestyle or a primitive nomadic lifestyle as you seem to be deluding yourself into thinking, with that said, let's continue.

That article discusses the dangers of cooked meat, the previous article I've linked to discusses the dangers of red meat and the inflammatory diseases it causes. You don't even know what your attempting to argue and your attempts to derail the argument of the OP are ill thought out and quiet frankly, very pathetic in execution.

So it is now established that switching to a vegetarian diet does not help even after 5 years.

Does not help ex-smokers in a period of five years that the study was conducted without mention of any further research into the effects after that five year duration. Please learn to debate properly.

So everything you like is accurate and anything you do not like is old and dated material?

Questionnaires are not accurate enough to be used as a scientific research tool, they are only best at circumstantial statistical analysis, at best.

Really?

If you think I've mentioned dropping meat completely, then grow a pair and quote it.

The diet we have evolved to eat is the diet we are eating today.

Grains didn't enter the human diet up until roughly 10,000 years ago, same figures for animal husbandry as well. These are sources of food that we've intentionally placed into the human diet as well as have modified at a genetic level from the wild counterparts.

Why don't you ask them what they do with it. They use their crap to make night soil and everything else goes out into a "wetlands" they have made which is just a fancy way of saying we dump it over here.

Please quote from their website where it mentions that they dump waste or excrement into the water. Your a real pro at empty claims.

LEDs have their own problems, if they are making free energy from the sun why not use a regular light bulb?

It's about conservation. What problems are there with LEDs?

Really? Because when you go to the supermarket there are very strict guidelines on keeping the food sanitary, without those rules people get tapeworms and ecoli.
But mother nature did now mean for us to wash food or wear clothes, we were made to eat worms and die of ecoli with a gut full of tapeworm.

Who says we weren't meant to wash food or eat it in a clean state? A lot of primate's eat fermented fruits which keeps 'bad' bacteria from growing on the fruit. Some even wash their root vegetables in nearby streams. And I love saying this, tits or gtfo!

No but seriously, clothes are fine nor do we need to obtain clothes from animal skins either. Remember that rather versatile grass I was talking about earlier called bamboo? Yep my little buddy, you can make a cloth from bamboo as soft as silk.

reply to post by sirnex

Please quote from their website where it mentions that they dump waste or excrement into the water. Your a real pro at empty claims.

Call them and ask them im sure they would love to hear from you.

It's about conservation. What problems are there with LEDs?

Why "conserve" free energy that is just retarded. You get free energy from the sun all day long, what does it matter if you use an "energy saving bulb" that energy is free and comming all day if you like it or not.

If you think I've mentioned dropping meat completely, then grow a pair and quote it.

You can get all the protein you need from insects which take up less land and resources. Humans have been eating insects well before we learned to cook our meat.

insects take less resources and are more nutritious nor do they cause any inflammatory diseases like red meats do!

You have no bodily adaptations to hunting down a cow nor can you properly digest the meat which is what leads to a host of inflammatory related diseases.

No but seriously, clothes are fine nor do we need to obtain clothes from animal skins either. Remember that rather versatile grass I was talking about earlier called bamboo? Yep my little buddy, you can make a cloth from bamboo as soft as silk.

But growing cotton is somehow different than growing bamboo to wear?

what kind of car do you drive?
What other non-essential electric items do you use everyday besides your computer?
how many solar pannels do you have on your roof?
How many wind turbines do you have on your roof?

www.aboutmcdonalds.com... McDonnalds is greener than you.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by zaiger]

reply to post by zaiger

Call them and ask them im sure they would love to hear from you.

Oh for crying out loud! Grow a pair will ya? You made a claim, now back it up.

Why "conserve" free energy that is just retarded. You get free energy from the sun all day long, what does it matter if you use an "energy saving bulb" that energy is free and comming all day if you like it or not.

Solar energy peaks during certain hours of the day and is never received at night when the sun is not out. You also have to contend with stormy days, or just plain old cloudy days. Wind energy, as the name implies is begotten from the wind alone. No wind, no energy being produced. You conserve the energy you have stored so your not left without power.

I'm going to have to re-ask this question:

If you think I've mentioned dropping meat completely, then grow a pair and quote it.

None of those quotes mention dropping meat entirely and it disregards other forms of animal protein that I have mentioned as being healthy to eat. You really blow at this whole debate thing.

But growing cotton is somehow different than growing bamboo to wear?

Strawman.

what kind of car do you drive?

My two feet and a bicycle.

What other non-essential electric items do you use everyday besides your computer?

A refrigerator and lighting which is only used for short amount of time that we're in a room.

how many solar pannels do you have on your roof?

None right now, but I am working on a system that will give me most of my power needs.

How many wind turbines do you have on your roof?

None as the town I live in doesn't permit them. YAY, bad policy makers!!!

www.aboutmcdonalds.com... McDonnalds is greener than you.

No they're not. I'm one household, they own thousands of stores along with a bunch of office building, factories etc. Learn you some math boy!

reply to post by sirnex


All of our needs? Really? So mother nature provides vaccines, mother nature provides us entertainment, mother nature provides us HIV drugs? Mother nature provides none of this, we have to use our technology to make sure things a reality and that involves using resources which may cause some issues.

I'm all for working with nature but don't go believing that mother nature provides all of what we need in raw form.

Actually if all we need is mother nature then please get the hell away from your computer, mother nature didn't make it.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by sirnex
Does not help ex-smokers in a period of five years that the study was conducted without mention of any further research into the effects after that five year duration. Please learn to debate properly.

You suggest that meat consumption reduces lifespan, however, the longest living populations on Earth eat both meat and fish. Granted they eat these things in small amounts but they do eat them. The study you linked talks about meats being cooked at high temperatures. This is no doubt the same as the charring effect which produces carcinogens. Meat doesn't have to be charrd to be eaten you know

Currently there are research teams going back and fourth to places like Okonawa as they are the longest living people on Earth. They eat both meats and fish. In the end scientists think it comes down to a mix of genes, reduced calorie consupmtion and having a purpose in life.

Learn to debate properly

[edit on 27-4-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

All of our needs? Really? So mother nature provides vaccines, mother nature provides us entertainment, mother nature provides us HIV drugs? Mother nature provides none of this, we have to use our technology to make sure things a reality and that involves using resources which may cause some issues.

Yes, it provides all of that for free. Humans charge humans, never forget that. All of our medicines are directly derived from natural plants and animals and then a synthetic compound is created that behaves similarly to the natural compounds. Aspirin is derived from willow bark. The compound pharmaceutical companies use is similar and works faster, but doesn't last as long as the natural thing which is as easy to obtain as chewing a twig.

I'm all for working with nature but don't go believing that mother nature provides all of what we need in raw form.

The Earth didn't charge the lumber companies for the trees it cut down to provide lumber. The lumber companies charge for the lumber. Learn how to think properly and perhaps we can change the world into a better place.

Actually if all we need is mother nature then please get the hell away from your computer, mother nature sidn't make it.

The Earth did indeed provide the resources to make the computer freely. Man charges man for those resources. Your still stuck in backwards thinking mode. Try a little hard, I know you can do it!

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

You suggest that meat consumption reduces lifespan, however, the longest living populations on Earth eat both meat and fish. Granted they eat these things in small amounts but they do eat them.

Learn to debate properly

Learn to comprehend what you read. I never said anything about not eating any meat at all, just red meats.

And I'll counter your learn to debate with a learn to debate of my own.

reply to post by sirnex

Oh for crying out loud! Grow a pair will ya? You made a claim, now back it up.

You seem to have a strange obsession with the growth of my testicles...If you have netflix you can watch the eipisode of 30 days called "living off the grid" and you can hear them explain it.

If you think I've mentioned dropping meat completely, then grow a pair and quote it.

None of those quotes mention dropping meat entirely and it disregards other forms of animal protein that I have mentioned as being healthy to eat. You really blow at this whole debate thing

All you keep posting about red meat is RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES. Only making mention that it is better to eat grasshoppers and worms. Never once have you said anything about eating a healthy amount of meat.

But growing cotton is somehow different than growing bamboo to wear?



Strawman.

No it is not a strawman, you are saying bamboo can be used to make clothes instead of leather and i was just asking what is the eco difference between bamboo and cotton, i was not attacking anything.

My two feet and a bicycle.

Is it a green bike made with bio plastic and recycled metal?

A refrigerator and lighting which is only used for short amount of time that we're in a room.

So besides lighting you just use your computer all day while your fridge is running? Man was not made to eat food stored in the fridge. He was made to eat fresh bugs and crops gwon in human filth. what a hypocrite i do not even own a fridge.

None right now, but I am working on a system that will give me most of my power needs.

OMG hypocrite, you are no better than me.

No they're not. I'm one household, they own thousands of stores along with a bunch of office building, factories etc. Learn you some math boy!

Yes but they buy way more carbon credits (aka green points) than you and they are opening up certified LEED stores which basically means they a have a slip of paper saying that they are greener than you and al gore would probably thank them whil detesting your lack of greenship
www.greenbeanchicago.com...

[edit on 27-4-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by sirnex
Yes, it provides all of that for free. Humans charge humans, never forget that. All of our medicines are directly derived from natural plants and animals and then a synthetic compound is created that behaves similarly to the natural compounds. Aspirin is derived from willow bark. The compound pharmaceutical companies use is similar and works faster, but doesn't last as long as the natural thing which is as easy to obtain as chewing a twig.

Roughly 70% are taken from the natural environment not all of them. Further if you tried to chew a piece of willow bark you will find yourself suddenly struck with rather terrible stomach cramps. The refinment of the medication, using science and techniques mother nature didn't intend has lead to medications we can use safely.

Still the point remains that 70% of medicinse are derived from nature and you claim all are, this is obviously wrong. Vaccines are generally very complex and synthetic things

Originally posted by sirnex
The Earth didn't charge the lumber companies for the trees it cut down to provide lumber. The lumber companies charge for the lumber. Learn how to think properly and perhaps we can change the world into a better place.

I hope you have never used paper then. Going to the bathroom must be an odd experience for you.

Originally posted by sirnex
The Earth did indeed provide the resources to make the computer freely. Man charges man for those resources. Your still stuck in backwards thinking mode. Try a little hard, I know you can do it!

Wow you are so condescending and yet you have failed to provide a system which could replace what we currently have. Out of curiosity, how old are you? At the current point in time people have to work to produce goods like a computer, how are we to reward them for their hard work? If they work for free then why should i bother paying them? Indeed what could i give them if we aboloish currency as you seem to suggest.

Oh and if you are to accuse me of being stuck in backwards thinking then at pleast learn the difference between your and you're, you have made that mistake several times in the thread i see. Hardly the actions of an enlightened mind. I am not a pedant but this obvious lack of skill in the English language says a great deal.

Things won't change while humans still perform work. When robots get up and running however and are able to undertake all of the jobs humans now occupy, well that will be the day we finally approach a utopian society. Robots that produce everything for us would mean humans could concentrate on whatever we wished to.

You might want to search online for "manna", it's a fascinating short story about the future of such things.

You accuse me of backwards thinking but you really haven't provided a viable alternatie to the current system. Please lay out a clear and concise explanation of how the society that exists in your mind would work.

Originally posted by sirnex
None right now, but I am working on a system that will give me most of my power needs.

Which system please. Solar panels harm the environment more than you probably understand, wind turbines take a lot to produce as well, using food crops as an ethanol source leads to people starving and if fertilizers are used it leads to terrible consequences, geothermal energy is great, but of course you have to use various metal and plastic parts which are produced with petroleum products and the metals are mined which causes damage, if they are recycled then they are often treated with acids and other chemicals. They would also need to be melted and reformed of course.

You can't escape it man, you are alive ina modern society. If you take off into the wild with bone tools then i'll listen to your opinion. At the moment you're just a hypocrite.

Originally posted by sirnex
Learn to comprehend what you read. I never said anything about not eating any meat at all, just red meats.

And I'll counter your learn to debate with a learn to debate of my own.

The longest living populations consume red meat, care to take another stab at this? The facts are very much against you Eating small quantities is fine, eating large amounts or charred meat is the problem.

Those who suffer from Environmentalism are called "environmentalists". The most notable symptoms of environmentalism are unwarranted Self-Importance, self-righteousness, a false sense of morality, disregard for human life, lack of reasoning ability, invisible eyebrows, and supporting idiotic politics, or at least saying they do

source: æ

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

You can't escape it man, you are alive ina modern society. If you take off into the wild with bone tools then i'll listen to your opinion. At the moment you're just a hypocrite.

That is exactly what i told him.
I have respect for people who actually live like they preach but this pretty much comes down to what every "green" person suffers from. They use all the same crap as regular people but they are somehow better than everyone because they believe in global warming.
It is like a christian who sacrafices animals saying that a pegan is going to hell for doing the same thing but the christian is okay because he believes in christ.

Originally posted by zaiger
That is exactly what i told him.
I have respect for people who actually live like they preach but this pretty much comes down to what every "green" person suffers from. They use all the same crap as regular people but they are somehow better than everyone because they believe in global warming.
It is like a christian who sacrafices animals saying that a pegan is going to hell for doing the same thing but the christian is okay because he believes in christ.

Hey now i consider myself quite green. I help manage population sizes of rabbits, pigeons and deer on farmers land. This protects crops from being utterly destroyed. I believe in sustainable agriculture. I believe we shoud eat far less red meat than we do as it takse so many resources to raise a cow or pig compared to a chicken. I even think the Earh has to many people and we need to start accepting population control.

Don't throw the green label out like an insult. There are good reasons to care about the planet and that makes me a green i suppose. The difference is i'm not hypocritical about it, i realise humans are the dominants species and while we must try and learn to live more peacefully within our enviornment, we need our big machines and modern medicine.

It is odd that this guy is basically promoting a utopian society without realising that science will bring about something close to it as robotic technology advances. Imagine a factory where robots build all the cars from start to finish, imagine a farm where robots work night and day, charging themselves via solar energy or via the clean nuclear fusion we will accomplish. Such advances will free the majority from work and i hope lead to a true golden age.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Roughly 70% are taken from the natural environment not all of them. Further if you tried to chew a piece of willow bark you will find yourself suddenly struck with rather terrible stomach cramps. The refinment of the medication, using science and techniques mother nature didn't intend has lead to medications we can use safely.

Still the point remains that 70% of medicinse are derived from nature and you claim all are, this is obviously wrong. Vaccines are generally very complex and synthetic things

People have been using willow bark as a pain reliever and fever reducer for thousands of years with ill effect, and I have personally used it to rid myself of a headache whilst hiking without any of the stomachs cramps you claim results from it. Also, learn how a vaccine is made before you bring it up in an argument. Here's a great site for ya! www.examiner.com... ore-Science-News-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Science-101-How-vaccines-are-made

I hope you have never used paper then. Going to the bathroom must be an odd experience for you.

I currently do, but I'm hoping to move to sponge soon.

Wow you are so condescending and yet you have failed to provide a system which could replace what we currently have. Out of curiosity, how old are you? At the current point in time people have to work to produce goods like a computer, how are we to reward them for their hard work? If they work for free then why should i bother paying them? Indeed what could i give them if we aboloish currency as you seem to suggest.

Resource based economy and just general goodwill towards fellow man.

Oh and if you are to accuse me of being stuck in backwards thinking then at pleast learn the difference between your and you're, you have made that mistake several times in the thread i see. Hardly the actions of an enlightened mind. I am not a pedant but this obvious lack of skill in the English language says a great deal.

Please learn how to spell please. There is no 't' at the end of please. Wow that was fun, and should I go back and point out other spelling errors of yours?

Things won't change while humans still perform work. When robots get up and running however and are able to undertake all of the jobs humans now occupy, well that will be the day we finally approach a utopian society. Robots that produce everything for us would mean humans could concentrate on whatever we wished to.

No, thing's won't change so long as we're filled with greedy people who demand an invisible unit of value that is of no tangible use be given to them in the form of a paper or coin based currency.

You accuse me of backwards thinking but you really haven't provided a viable alternatie to the current system. Please lay out a clear and concise explanation of how the society that exists in your mind would work.

The whole OP of the thread was WHY do we allow the points raised to occur. It was not nor was ever intended to be a full out course by course solution of how to change people like you. I currently don't know how to make you want to be less wasteful or less greedy. I've given a few solutions for certain issues that are certainly viable solutions for those issues, but you want money, not solutions from money.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I think green is nothing more that a marketing label and political platform. Real green ideas on the otherhand do work and should be looked into. As science advances there is less and less waste, anyone can see that in history. Acomplany used to keep paper ledgers and write everything on paper this has been greatly replaced by email. Electronics now get recycled and every tree that gets cut is replaced by new ones. Science advances by making existing things more efficent not taking giant leaps backwards to "save the earth". So i think real "green" things are still being made but most of the existing promoted ones are just a result of wishfull thinking.

reply to post by sirnex

currently do, but I'm hoping to move to sponge soon.

Lumber companies replant more than what they cut by not buying and using paper products you are doing more harm than good.

Resource based economy and just general goodwill towards fellow man.

We went over this before and you dodged the issue. Any kind of economy always leads back to currency. When lugging around resources becomes impractical people develop paper slips or coins to repusent what is really being traded. And how does a resource based economy go with anything else you have said about gold and rare pink diamonds not holding any real value? So explain to me what resources this la la land economy will be based off of and how would it not turn into currency.

No, thing's won't change so long as we're filled with greedy people who demand an invisible unit of value that is of no tangible use be given to them in the form of a paper or coin based currency.

Some people work harder and contribute more than others, some people work less and need more than others like a single parent with 2 kids. How does any economy work without currency? Why would people even bother to work if there was no chance of getting more? Russia tried the whol "each according to his need thing" and it did not work.

The whole OP of the thread was WHY do we allow the points raised to occur.

And people have told you why and you just start name calling.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by zaiger]

Originally posted by sirnex
People have been using willow bark as a pain reliever and fever reducer for thousands of years with ill effect, and I have personally used it to rid myself of a headache whilst hiking without any of the stomachs cramps you claim results from it. Also, learn how a vaccine is made before you bring it up in an argument. Here's a great site for ya! www.examiner.com... ore-Science-News-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Science-101-How-vaccines-are-made

I am quite aware how a vaccine is produced. It depends upon the vaccine of course but some are made using very synthetic chemicals. Even if you disagree with that then you have to accept vaccines are developed using techniques that mother nature never intended. You say mother nature provides all we need and yet to develop a vaccine requires plastics (which we produce using very unnatural processes), energy from fossil fuels, refined versions of glass blah blah etc. Man you're losing this one. You claim mother nature provides all we need and yet you are typing on a computer which has been developed using things mother nature cann't replicate.

Originally posted by sirnex
I currently do, but I'm hoping to move to sponge soon.

You're a hypocrite then. You said mother nature provides all and yet you are using something that isn't natural. Further you gave a little speech about the forests and you are using paper! I'm thinking you're a troll or just sadly misguided. Oh and by sponge i assume you are referring to the marine kind yes? Well that sponge has to be ripped up from an ocean, damaging the enviroment, or it has to be produced from petroleum, or it has to be commerically grown, which damages the enviroment.

Originally posted by sirnex

Resource based economy and just general goodwill towards fellow man.

That is not a good explanation, please lay it out from start to finish. Provide a detailed explanation. A one line reply is not a good enough description of the society you are claiming can exist.

Originally posted by sirnex

Please learn how to spell please. There is no 't' at the end of please. Wow that was fun, and should I go back and point out other spelling errors of yours?

A typing mistake which appears once or twice is quite different from a consistent error

Originally posted by sirnex
No, thing's won't change so long as we're filled with greedy people who demand an invisible unit of value that is of no tangible use be given to them in the form of a paper or coin based currency.

So should we back currency with gold? Of course some say gold has no value only that which we place upon it. However gold is used in the computer you are typing with right now, along with cadmium, iridium and a few other things. Value is currently assigned because it gives humans a motive to produce things.

Even from the beginning of time people had this mindset. Beads were a currency. In fact animals existing today still use such behaviors when they collect for example blue items to decorat their nests to attract a mate. You are trying to say that everything should be free and peopel should work together, and that is great. oHowever it all falls apart when someone like myself is rather unwell and cannot contribute. Society would dislike me for getting things without doing anything. Have you read animal farm? It's very similar to what you are suggesting and the pitfalls were explained well.

Originally posted by sirnex
The whole OP of the thread was WHY do we allow the points raised to occur. It was not nor was ever intended to be a full out course by course solution of how to change people like you. I currently don't know how to make you want to be less wasteful or less greedy. I've given a few solutions for certain issues that are certainly viable solutions for those issues, but you want money, not solutions from money.

People like me? You have no idea what i am like or who i am. Less greedy? Dear sir i don't much care for possessions. My computer i use as a lifeline to communicate due to my ill health. All of the possessions i own are within this room in which i sit and include many books, a piano, a guitar, furniture and that's really anout it. Everything is functional, hardly an expression of greed.

You talk of strawmen and yet you use ad hom attacks happily I don't want money, i only wish for a roof over my head, food in my stomach and entertainment. Pretty much the basics.

Your continuing ad hom attacks suggest you are nothing more than a troll.

reply to post by zaiger

You seem to have a strange obsession with the growth of my testicles...If you have netflix you can watch the eipisode of 30 days called "living off the grid" and you can hear them explain it.

I have watched it and no where do they discuss or show them dumping human excrement into their water.

All you keep posting about red meat is RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES RED MEAT CAUSES INFLAMATORY DISEASES. Only making mention that it is better to eat grasshoppers and worms. Never once have you said anything about eating a healthy amount of meat.

Your so full of crap. Resource wise, insects rule out over red meats which we shouldn't be eating anyways, and I did make mention of fish as another source of healthy animal protein which you promptly attacked in such a wonderful smart ass way.

No it is not a strawman, you are saying bamboo can be used to make clothes instead of leather and i was just asking what is the eco difference between bamboo and cotton, i was not attacking anything.

I'm not sure what or if there would be any differences at this time, bamboo cloth is relatively new.

Is it a green bike made with bio plastic and recycled metal?

It's a bike that would have gone to the dump, so yes... 100% recycled.

So besides lighting you just use your computer all day while your fridge is running? Man was not made to eat food stored in the fridge. He was made to eat fresh bugs and crops gwon in human filth. what a hypocrite i do not even own a fridge.

Lying and being a smart ass won't help your case. Refrigeration is a means of preservation, but I am looking into fermenting my fruits and vegetables as an alternative form of preservation which also allows them to keep in storage much longer than refrigeration.

OMG hypocrite, you are no better than me.

Learn how to apply hypocrite please. No where in any of my posts have I directly made mention unless specifically asked of which aspects of my life that I apply the various solutions I've discussed. No where in my OP do I even at all mention that I do all the thing's discussed in it. Many times I have mentioned that I am unable to do a few of the thing's I would like to do thanks to bad policy makers and people such as yourself. If you can't apply a word properly, perhaps you shouldn't try and argue.

Yes but they buy way more carbon credits (aka green points) than you and they are opening up certified LEED stores which basically means they a have a slip of paper saying that they are greener than you and al gore would probably thank them whil detesting your lack of greenship

Carbon credits are a marketing ploy, a complete scam. I'm still more green than McDonald's.

That is exactly what i told him.
I have respect for people who actually live like they preach but this pretty much comes down to what every "green" person suffers from. They use all the same crap as regular people but they are somehow better than everyone because they believe in global warming.
It is like a christian who sacrafices animals saying that a pegan is going to hell for doing the same thing but the christian is okay because he believes in christ.

I never said I was completely off grid or green and I have mentioned that I am unable to practice certain thing's due to bad policy. There is no hypocrisy involved at all.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Which system please. Solar panels harm the environment more than you probably understand, wind turbines take a lot to produce as well, using food crops as an ethanol source leads to people starving and if fertilizers are used it leads to terrible consequences, geothermal energy is great, but of course you have to use various metal and plastic parts which are produced with petroleum products and the metals are mined which causes damage, if they are recycled then they are often treated with acids and other chemicals. They would also need to be melted and reformed of course.

[url=http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/]http://www.off-grid.net/2005/10/10/600-gets-your-house-on-solar-power/[/ur l]

Fossil fuels are more damaging.

You can't escape it man, you are alive ina modern society. If you take off into the wild with bone tools then i'll listen to your opinion. At the moment you're just a hypocrite.

Not advocating primitive living and have not made any mention of living like this myself, but was originally asking why we do what we do and then the discussion evolved into debating solutions to certain issues and now evolved into you both stupidly and ignorantly attempting to apply the 'hypocrite' label wrongly. I gots muh edumucation in publix skool!

The longest living populations consume red meat, care to take another stab at this? The facts are very much against you Eating small quantities is fine, eating large amounts or charred meat is the problem

Reread my posts and reread the articles. I've not said anything that goes against the facts.

reply to post by sirnex


If you had read Animal Farm then you no doubt remember Boxer. The society you are suggesting would result in a lot of Boxers. Working themselves for the greater good until they collapse and are shipped off to die. They produce while others (the pigs) reap the rewards.

Imagine for a moment you come to me and ask for some chairs. I hav some chairs and being the kind hearted person i am i give them to you. Now you can give me something in return but what if you have nothing? so you walk away with my chairs.

A man then comes and asks for all my canned goods, well wanting to show goodwill to this man i give him my canned goods and he has very little to trade in return.

soon i am running low on even the most basic possessions to keep myself alive. So i walk up to someone and ask for their water and food.

You see how this would go on forever yes? People may then farm for food, working hard and others will ask them for their goods, being kind people they hand their goods over and they starve.


Your system won't work while humans are doing the manufacturing.