The Earth provides for our every need for free.

reply to post by zaiger

As cool as im sure it sounds at a cofee shop or some hippy drum circle it is just not the case. If you plan on living your life constantly trying to find enough food and clean watter to live, then that is great. But keep in mind what you need to survive is significanly less than what you want.

The human body only needs between 1800 to 2000 calories a day. We can increase our lifespans by consuming less than that and still be healthy.

I will be sure to plant 2 cows when im done with my hamburger, you know what this hamburger tastes like crap im just going to throw it away. But i like the whole eco-friendly thing so put all these 1/2 eaten meals where they belong in the recycle bin.

Now this is just being a smart ass response. Did you know it takes less resources, land and water to grow a pound of insect compared to a pound of beef? The body doesn't care where the nutrients come from, so long as they're digestible. We've been eating insects far longer than we've been eating beef.

Ahhhh yes, pinworm and dysentery the beatuy of earth. Although i do not have to worry about that in my river. I do not think anything can survive in that much used motor oil. I mean we take all this precious oil from the earth i should just give it back when im done with it.

Obviously the point is beyond you. Perhaps if we had less people with your mentality of *I DON'T CARE*, then we could make a more positive impact towards cleaning our only home rather then devolving into polluted modes of thinking and smart assery.

Oh i know, my friends dad got cancer from working in a coal mine and he died. I guess mother earth decided he had a pre-existing condition. Yeah earth healthcare sucks.

Perhaps he shouldn't have been in a coal mine to begin with.

Not true i have many court documents that say that i am specifically not allowed to enter any forest or national park.

Are you being honest? What reasons would they have to ban you from state forests? I can't even begin to imagine what you could have done to receive such a harsh punishment. This explains the smart assery at least.

Im sure you did not even bother to look up how the forests are really harvested for wood, they are a business and like any recognize if they chop down all of their product they will not be able to sell it anymore. It is pretty much standard now for lumber companies to replant more than they chop down so by purchasing wood stuff you actually fund the replanting of trees. But that does not sound as cool does it?

We don't replant forests to make new land available for grazing and crops my friend. At the rate of population increase and the ever increasing demand for food as a result, we see whole tracts of wooded forests disappearing. There is more to life than making up excuses my friend.

Life expectancy has gotten longer. Notable figgures in history were mostly rich and or privileged, for a long time people were filthy rich or dirt poor. The middle class is pretty new. People also died from common diseases if you got the flu it was not uncommon to die of it, i guess that free earth health care system worked back then too eh?

It's amazing how you've purposefully left out exactly why notable figures lived long lives to make your argument against to work.

"The key is proper nutrition, exercise and hygiene."



The peasants didn't die early because they wanted to. The upper ruling class didn't allow for them to sustain a healthy lifestyle. They weren't allowed the proper nutrition or hygiene. You don't seem to get it yet.

We are not. If you are so intelligent why do you believe in these things you are saying? Is it one of those things it was rammed down your throat so now you think it is true?
If all this green crap was true we would have used all of our natural resources up and the earth would have boiled over ten years ago.

Interesting choice of words, it truly speaks volumes of your view of nature compared to mine. No, none of the way I view things was 'rammed down my throat', this is just all common sense thing's. Polluting the only home you have and raping it of resources just isn't a good thing. If you can't see that, if you have to argue against those that try to put that message out there, then your a sad lost little shell of a man. A slave owned by those who continuously ram down your throat the message that everything is just fine. Either never thinking for yourself, or just plainly unwilling to think for yourself.

Speak for yourself.

Given your response towards me, I can only thank you for further validation of my previous statements.

Enjoy your tape worm as nature intended.

As I hope you enjoy your narrow minded views as well.

It's always a pleasure to meet someone who has no regards for the state of our only home or for how that only home is for their children. I can only hope you don't tell your children upfront that they aren't worth it.

Star, Flag and an AMEN BROTHER!

Of course, the majority of people are too fat and lazy to appreciate what you're saying, they just see their wii disappearing, their 24 hour shopping channels gone and nobody delivering them a Domino's pizza right to their door, and they can't comprehend the simple truth you're telling them.

With the exception of the ones we put in cages, every animal on earth lives free, except for us humans, who live in captivity to our own greed.

Originally posted by TheIrvy
Star, Flag and an AMEN BROTHER!

Of course, the majority of people are too fat and lazy to appreciate what you're saying, they just see their wii disappearing, their 24 hour shopping channels gone and nobody delivering them a Domino's pizza right to their door, and they can't comprehend the simple truth you're telling them.

With the exception of the ones we put in cages, every animal on earth lives free, except for us humans, who live in captivity to our own greed.

It's a crying shame that the majority of the people we'll meet put more emphasis on pure products of greed as if those wants are the only thing that allows them to survive. Just take the last person I responded to before you.

I say give thanks to the Earth and he responds with mentioning that he should pour his spent oil back on the ground further polluting the Earth. He's lost touch with reality thanks to the society we've allowed ourselves to live in. His proper response should have been that he should try and walk places or car pool more often, to properly dispose of the spent oil or 'Yea, I should give thanks by leaving our only home better off than it was left for me so that my children and their children can enjoy it in the future long after I'm gone'. Most people are just empty shells, the true slaves of the greedy masters.

Well the most successful form of slavery is one where the slaves prefer their slavery to freedom, and even if they were offered freedom, they would choose to stay in their captivity. Little bits of paper have proven to be far stronger than chains, and hold us in bondage far far better, because we believe them to be necessary.

We have no concept, generally, of the pure joy that live would bring us. All we know is consumerism and the life we have set out for us now. Anything outside of that scares us, and we run from it.

reply to post by sirnex


So in other words, its always an extreme choice: this throway world, where coffee pots short out every few months so you have to buy new ones, to benefit THE FEW, when a short time ago appliances LASTED, or AVATAR and the good old primitive days.

The idea of progrssing into the cosmos technologically advanced, within ALL things made to last, and to be recylced, plastics from plants and not oil, crystals grown and used, homes made in a variety of ways that is natural like earth ship homes with other things replacing the cement, BEAMSHIPS in our back yards. Venus project run grass roots by no elites. Solar, wind, geothermal, zero point energy.

No one is every going to convince me we need to be reset to little house on the prairies, what we need is a completely FREE world no patents, no copyrights, NO money, high education, volunteering and goods made in clean and ultimatley recyclable ways.

There have always been discoveries, and alternative answers, AND THEY'VE BEEN SUPPRESSED!

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by fernx

 

I can farm less than an acre and feed a family of five for the year.

I would really like to see this. What would you eat?

There would be no meat for your family to eat....even a goat or one sheep needs more land that 1 acre to survive on ( you must grow crops to feed them when they can not graze like in the wintertime ), you may say I will have chickens... well do you know how much land is needed to grow grain to feed a chicken for a year??? good luck you don't have enough.

You will have no bread because you do not have enough room to grow grain for the bread....how many loafs of bread do 5 people eat a year????

No Milk or any milk products. No room for old Bessy.

You can't bake anything, no flour, no salt, no sugar, baking powder, no butter or cooking oil, and so on.

You may have a few fruit trees and lots of vegetables. Not much protein there.

What about clothing? How much land do you need to grow cotton or hemp can't use leather you don't have room for any animals.

Soap, I have made soap...no soap for you! you don't have any oil or animal fat to make soap. Also you need wood ash to make lye. You don't have enough room for trees on your one acre for firewood. Hope you don't live where it gets cold!

Well I think you and your family will get sick, this is not a good diet, vitamin deficiency!!!! I have never heard of a vitamin tree ( sorry had to say that ).

Well you may say that we are Vegetatians and do not eat those things....IMO I think you would starve to death or get very sick.

I have a large garden, cows, chickens, eggs, fruit trees, maple syrup and we still have to go to the grocery store. Wished we didn't but that is life. There is no way your family of five can live on one acre!

There was a reason that farms were blocked into 100 acre parcels a longtime ago, it is around the right amount of land you needed for a family to survive. Good luck with your acre.

And if you think you can grow anything to trade with me, for something I have that you need, good luck it will already be in my garden.

I am sorry, I would like to live in a world like that also but it would not work now, there are way to many people on this planet now and everyone is out for themselves. I am not going to share my food with Jo Blow because he is a nice guy and get nothing for it while he sits on his butt. It has turned into a dog eat dog world.

And if you think a group of people can live together and get along good luck....cults??? who is the leader??? what happens to the lazy guy who wants to sit on his butt all day??? do you kick him out??? What about the fat one that eats 3 times what everyone else does, and so on and so on...

This is just my opinion, I have live on a farm for more that 40 years and this is my take on you living on 1 acre of land, best of luck can't be done.

cheers

reply to post by Unity_99

So in other words, its always an extreme choice: this throway world, where coffee pots short out every few months so you have to buy new ones, to benefit THE FEW, when a short time ago appliances LASTED, or AVATAR and the good old primitive days.

It's nothing about extremes of living. What it is about is living with only that which we need as our main concerns in life and luxuries as what they are, just luxuries. Our society places more emphasis on luxuries as if they are necessities.

The idea of progrssing into the cosmos technologically advanced, within ALL things made to last, and to be recylced, plastics from plants and not oil, crystals grown and used, homes made in a variety of ways that is natural like earth ship homes with other things replacing the cement, BEAMSHIPS in our back yards. Venus project run grass roots by no elites. Solar, wind, geothermal, zero point energy.

We can build a house of nothing but dirt that can last 500-2000 years without repair or very little repair. Our "modern" wooden structures last less than 20 years without proper maintenance. Yet a wooden house is more "modern" than a house that can last generations?

No one is every going to convince me we need to be reset to little house on the prairies, what we need is a completely FREE world no patents, no copyrights, NO money, high education, volunteering and goods made in clean and ultimatley recyclable ways.

We definitely don't have to go back to little house on the prairie, man that would just suck! We just need to relearn the difference between a luxury and a necessity.

There have always been discoveries, and alternative answers, AND THEY'VE BEEN SUPPRESSED!

The greed mongers can't profit off of what's free.

reply to post by fernx

I would really like to see this. What would you eat?

The same things we already eat.

There would be no meat for your family to eat....even a goat or one sheep needs more land that 1 acre to survive on ( you must grow crops to feed them when they can not graze like in the wintertime ), you may say I will have chickens... well do you know how much land is needed to grow grain to feed a chicken for a year??? good luck you don't have enough.

You can get all the protein you need from insects which take up less land and resources. Humans have been eating insects well before we learned to cook our meat.

You will have no bread because you do not have enough room to grow grain for the bread....how many loafs of bread do 5 people eat a year????

Who needs nutritionally empty bred?

No Milk or any milk products. No room for old Bessy.

Show me a picture of you sucking on a cow's teat.

Cow's milk is for infant cow's mind you.

You can't bake anything, no flour, no salt, no sugar, baking powder, no butter or cooking oil, and so on.

Because every species on Earth just can't live without baking their food.

You may have a few fruit trees and lots of vegetables. Not much protein there.

A pound of grasshoppers contain as much protein as a pound of beef, and they aren't that bad tasting either.

What about clothing? How much land do you need to grow cotton or hemp can't use leather you don't have room for any animals.

Who needs clothes? tits or gtfo lmao

Soap, I have made soap...no soap for you! you don't have any oil or animal fat to make soap. Also you need wood ash to make lye. You don't have enough room for trees on your one acre for firewood. Hope you don't live where it gets cold!

Why would I want to apply a corrosive chemical onto my skin? You really think corrosive and poisonous chemicals are the only way to be clean?

Well I think you and your family will get sick, this is not a good diet, vitamin deficiency!!!! I have never heard of a vitamin tree ( sorry had to say that ).

Most people on a western diet are vitamin deficient and malnutrition-ed. Reaching for food when they're really just thirsty and quenching their thirst with soda's. Eating properly does not cause deficiencies.

Well you may say that we are Vegetatians and do not eat those things....IMO I think you would starve to death or get very sick.

You don't starve to death if you forgo meats. lol

I have a large garden, cows, chickens, eggs, fruit trees, maple syrup and we still have to go to the grocery store. Wished we didn't but that is life. There is no way your family of five can live on one acre!

How many grocery stores were around 12,000 years ago?

There was a reason that farms were blocked into 100 acre parcels a longtime ago, it is around the right amount of land you needed for a family to survive. Good luck with your acre.

And if you think you can grow anything to trade with me, for something I have that you need, good luck it will already be in my garden.

If I have food, water and shelter, then what could you possibly have that I "need"?

I am sorry, I would like to live in a world like that also but it would not work now, there are way to many people on this planet now and everyone is out for themselves. I am not going to share my food with Jo Blow because he is a nice guy and get nothing for it while he sits on his butt. It has turned into a dog eat dog world.

You do realize that statement says more about personal greed than the state of human affairs. You certainly don't have to share your labor with any one who didn't participate. I'm not saying you should either. Yet to say it's a dog eat dog world just screams out to me because that is so far from the truth of reality.

And if you think a group of people can live together and get along good luck....cults??? who is the leader??? what happens to the lazy guy who wants to sit on his butt all day??? do you kick him out??? What about the fat one that eats 3 times what everyone else does, and so on and so on...

A community acts together as a community or it's not a community. Point is, don't participate in a community if you do not wish to be a part of a community. Don't demand the community cares for you if you are physically capable of contributing to your own well being and to the well being of the community. There is no need for leaders as we are all leaders. What an insane concept... have a few tell the many what to do. How about we all act like adults?

This is just my opinion, I have live on a farm for more that 40 years and this is my take on you living on 1 acre of land, best of luck can't be done.

It certainly can be done, and many of the thing's you've listed as reasons for why it can't be done are either not nutritious at all or are pointless to eat, like beef. I can't imagine owning an animal that requires an insane amount of resources when the other option is just as healthy and requires less resources.

Live off one acre - Family of four.

LOL you have fun eating your grasshoppers and worms!!!!

I give up, your right and I am not we will leave it at that LOL I have a brother like you that thinks he is right about everything and will not listen to other views, I know how this goes so I will wave the white flag.

I would love to see you live like that, for 1 month let a lone a year, and make your family do it too! Happy hunting grasshoppers when winter comes, will be thinking of you when I am eating my big greasy burger.....ummmm

cheers

the creator is in creation and our participation is greater when we LOVE nature

Nature is our nature

every single thing we consume is derived from this Earth
let us give LOVE to this beautiful planet

TERRA EARTH will touch with LOVE those whom touch the earth with LOVE

∞LOVE∞

reply to post by sirnex

We don't replant forests to make new land available for grazing and crops my friend. At the rate of population increase and the ever increasing demand for food as a result, we see whole tracts of wooded forests disappearing. There is more to life than making up excuses my friend

www.appalachianwood.org...
www.fscus.org...
www.doityourself.com...
Yeah replanting is pretty common, one of those companies plants 8 for every one that has been cut. They are making the forest bigger.

It's amazing how you've purposefully left out exactly why notable figures lived long lives to make your argument against to work.

"The key is proper nutrition, exercise and hygiene."

No i did not leave it out. People died from the free small pox and common flu from the free mother earth healthcare system.

The peasants didn't die early because they wanted to. The upper ruling class didn't allow for them to sustain a healthy lifestyle. They weren't allowed the proper nutrition or hygiene.

wait back up a sec. So the peasants who had to fend for them selves lived short lives. But those who got to live in a warm house and have food served to them lived longer? So why would we want to live like 16th century peasants and try to live off the land and live short lives?

reply to post by fernx

LOL you have fun eating your grasshoppers and worms!!!!

You should try them.

I give up, your right and I am not we will leave it at that LOL I have a brother like you that thinks he is right about everything and will not listen to other views, I know how this goes so I will wave the white flag.

I think you have that half assed backwards my friend. Your poking fun while turning the other cheek to the solutions that don't force us to use up so many resources. This isn't a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of maturity as a human and member of this planet.

Take you so called other view as an example. You moan about bread and burgers. Bread is a grain, something we've historically only recently started cultivating and consuming. Your beloved burger wastes so many resources whereas for the same amount of protein requires less resources.

I would love to see you live like that, for 1 month let a lone a year, and make your family do it too! Happy hunting grasshoppers when winter comes, will be thinking of you when I am eating my big greasy burger.....ummmm

I honestly hate to burst your consumerist bubble, but billions of people have done that for thousands of years, well before agribusiness and well before McDonald's. You make it out to sound as if it can't be done at all. That's cute!

reply to post by sirnex


So are you using some mother earth wooden computer or something? Or are you just preaching about how we should do away with everything we enjoy so you can continue to be a huge hypocrite?

reply to post by zaiger

Yeah replanting is pretty common, one of those companies plants 8 for every one that has been cut. They are making the forest bigger.

I understand now that the lumber industry replants and it's great that you provided all those links. What I am at a loss to understand is the links towards the lumber industry as a reply to my comment about the agriculture industry.

No i did not leave it out. People died from the free small pox and common flu from the free mother earth healthcare system.

Yes, you did leave it out and for your own attempt to gain footing. The lack of knowledge of the people in the past has no bearing on future discoveries. Our medicines come from mostly plants and animals, not from some lab. Not knowing the cure to something right now doesn't detract from the cure being discovered from some plant or animal species or even bacterium. The point that the Earth provides free health care is still valid.

wait back up a sec. So the peasants who had to fend for them selves lived short lives. But those who got to live in a warm house and have food served to them lived longer? So why would we want to live like 16th century peasants and try to live off the land and live short lives?

Talk about over your head huh? Did you miss the point or what? The greed and power hungriness of the upper elite is what lead to the shorter lifespans of the peasants. Jeez, must be some nice bubble your living in.

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex

 

So are you using some mother earth wooden computer or something? Or are you just preaching about how we should do away with everything we enjoy so you can continue to be a huge hypocrite?

You don't like reading much do you? I've mentioned many times now that we DO NOT have to live like a primitive bunch. Certain advancements require certain resources and being a global species, I can then understand the need for global communication and travel. Coincidentally, our energy requirements for these advancements do not have to involve polluting the planet. My gosh, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro power must all be magic. We can't live without coal, petroleum and nuclear power!

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by sirnex

 

So are you using some mother earth wooden computer or something? Or are you just preaching about how we should do away with everything we enjoy so you can continue to be a huge hypocrite?

LOL that is exactly what I was going to post!


Seriously sirnex, If you REALLY feel this strongly you are being a huge hypocrite by just using your PC to post these threads and replies....Unless you have a bike that you pedal to make the electricity used to power your PC.

Oh, do you have any lights on in the room you are typing these replies in or do you have fat wax candles burning...

reply to post by sirnex

My gosh, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro power must all be magic.

But they are not as clean as advertised either.Solar panels do not last that long and durring the manufacturing process they use a large amounts of dangerous chemicals (like nature intended lol). The solar panels degrade over time so they have to be replaced.

Wind is a joke, it is horribly inefficent and simply really does not work. The amount of space you would need for a wind farm is crazy. In order to makeroom for all the wind turbines you would need to power a whole city you would have to cler out large areas of land (cut down trees) and unlike a lumber company when you cut down trees for wind turbines you can just plant them back because that land is taken. Wind is not constant either pretty much all the windmill areas are also supported by the regular power plants because they do not provide enough power. So when all is said and done it would be like saying your new H2 is "green" because you only start it when you get tired of pushing it (and that would not be very far).

geothermal is a joke too. They put out 1/2 of the polutants of regular fossil fuel energy plants and they are only 15 percent efficent as the fossil fuel plants. They can also just stop producing steam so they have to build a new one.

hydro power would work however the environmental impact of damming up rivers for energy and they also have to flood large areas for it to work. You also can't really increase the output of them either.

All of these alternative energies are promoted as a alternative to fossil fuels and none of them are, at best all they can do is supply extra energy to the grid.

reply to post by DerbyCityLights

Seriously sirnex, If you REALLY feel this strongly you are being a huge hypocrite by just using your PC to post these threads and replies....Unless you have a bike that you pedal to make the electricity used to power your PC.

The lack of reading my post's is really starting to get old and I find myself repeating now that I'm not against certain technological advancements and no this doesn't make one a hypocrite. I am not saying we need to move back to the stone age at all, so there is no hypocrisy in me using a computer. Use your head and learn to read my friend as you only make yourself look silly while you attempt to bash my request for responsibility in how we utilize our resources.

Oh, do you have any lights on in the room you are typing these replies in or do you have fat wax candles burning...

I leave my lights off as the monitor is sufficient enough to illuminate my keyboard. I hardly use my lights at all and only while I'm in the room. No point in wasting electricity when I don't need it, especially since I have to pay for it with our current "modern" society.

[edit on 21-4-2010 by sirnex]

reply to post by zaiger

But they are not as clean as advertised either.Solar panels do not last that long and durring the manufacturing process they use a large amounts of dangerous chemicals (like nature intended lol). The solar panels degrade over time so they have to be replaced.

I'll currently give you that for now until such a time when photovoltaic technology becomes more efficient.

Wind is a joke, it is horribly inefficent and simply really does not work. The amount of space you would need for a wind farm is crazy. In order to makeroom for all the wind turbines you would need to power a whole city you would have to cler out large areas of land (cut down trees) and unlike a lumber company when you cut down trees for wind turbines you can just plant them back because that land is taken. Wind is not constant either pretty much all the windmill areas are also supported by the regular power plants because they do not provide enough power. So when all is said and done it would be like saying your new H2 is "green" because you only start it when you get tired of pushing it (and that would not be very far).

I'm going to have to disagree here as there are quiet a few companies out there that sell roof mounted turbines that provide more than enough energy for what is necessary. Don't confuse necessary with luxury.

geothermal is a joke too. They put out 1/2 of the polutants of regular fossil fuel energy plants and they are only 15 percent efficent as the fossil fuel plants. They can also just stop producing steam so they have to build a new one.

We should use geothermal for heating, not electrical generation. At least that's my opinion and something we've done for thousands of years before electricity.

hydro power would work however the environmental impact of damming up rivers for energy and they also have to flood large areas for it to work. You also can't really increase the output of them either.

We don't need hydro power for electricity, we need it to do work.

All of these alternative energies are promoted as a alternative to fossil fuels and none of them are, at best all they can do is supply extra energy to the grid.

I understand what your saying. Your desire to dismantle mountain ranges for coal and you insatiable need for petroleum and petroleum based products far out weighs the pristine cleanliness of our only home for our future generations.

You see.... Your the problem.

reply to post by sirnex


The key point I was making is that while things are more or less freely available. There really is no such thing as a free lunch. You do have to work to obtain it. You got the point, mostly. Just a bit backwards to my intention.

Many feel that by working for others (like with a job) is the only way to achieve success. And sure some measure can be obtained, depending on the method of payment and the arrangement of the job itself. However, bartering eggs for grain is in a sense working for someone but is on the scale of an equitable return. Because you are producing more than you need in exchange for not producing grain.

The catch is not to become too dependent on others such as having people gather all your eggs in exchange for some eggs and some grain. The danger here is two fold. You could become to greedy and not give as much eggs or grain or that your gathers could leave you in the lurch in search of a better deal, leaving you with far less than you could have done.

The problem of trying to do it all alone is that your time between different things becomes so divided that you end up with little at all in the end. One of the main reasons that the solo survivalist is harder than having a small group of like minded friends. Bob can fish, while John gathers wild edibles and Tim tends the garden and works on bettering the shelters/huts. Bob may fail, and Tim produces nothing today until harvest.

Doing that alone means having to tend the garden on an empty stomach, grabbing a few edibles along the way to the fishing spot. Repairs to the shelter will only come if fishing is successful early.

All currency is labor at a set and agreed value of barter. Eggs or dollars, it is all the same, except you can't live on dollars alone.