Race consideration for University admissions

link

Last Wednesday, in a 45-30 vote, the state Assembly passed a bill to reinstate race as a consideration for university admissions. Assembly Bill 2387 allows "the University of California and the California State University ... to consider culture, race, gender, ethnicity" and a number of other factors in their admissions processes.

As I read it, the bill is illegal. Proposition 209, a constitutional amendment ratified by California's public in 1996, explicitly states: "The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting."

I amj absoloutely disgusted by this, how has it been allowed to happen, it has to be unconstitutional. To try and cover their backs , the bill includes that fact that it's fine "so long as no preference is given." Yet how can their not be a preference if somebody is making their choice based on race?

People of California, take to the streets.....



[Edited on 6/4/2004 by earthtone]

Originally posted by earthtone
link

Last Wednesday, in a 45-30 vote, the state Assembly passed a bill to reinstate race as a consideration for university admissions. Assembly Bill 2387 allows "the University of California and the California State University ... to consider culture, race, gender, ethnicity" and a number of other factors in their admissions processes.

Wow, this is a surprise... I wonder if Arnold Swartzenegger had something to do with it? I agree, its disgusting and degrading, i certainly hope people will stand up and say something about it!

Pretty suprising if Arnie did have something to do with it seeing as he himself came from a different country to the U.S, making him a different race. Wouldn't want people of his state to have all the chances he had, in a fair way, not based upon where you are from or what you look like.

Bit of a misleading title there Earthtone. New Race hating laws?

Even the article (which is clearly anti-affirmative action) breaks it down...

To put it simply, the bill is a devious and deliberate attempt to break the law and reinstate affirmative action in California.

To which I say GREAT! I didn't know minorities weren't protected in California.

I suppose we could just go back to all male, white schools...but I'd miss the co-ed editions of Girls Gone Wild.

Seriously if this is what the big hub-bub in the debates was about...it's nothing. The schools under the previous law weren't allowed to even KNOW what the representations of race were applying at a given school. They weren't allowed to record any data whatsoever but male vs. female.

You can't plan, recruit, administer, create course schedules...nothing without data. No biggie.

rant...

are we saying that professors cannot teach their courses without knowing ahead of time what race or sex their students are?

can ANYONE explain to me why race should play a role in college admissions? now i went to college and they only cared about two things, if my tests scores were high enough for the classes i wanted to take and if i could pay the tuition. i met both criteria so they were happy. at no time was my race or my sex ever a factor.

is there something i'm missing here? what does my race or sex have to do with me getting into college? why should it? shouldnt my wanting to further my education and get a career be enough?

now it would be one thing colleges were keeping whole sections of the populace out. but this law doesnt seem to address such an issue. it appears as though colleges now have tha bility to give preferentialy treatment to certain sections of the populace as they see fit.

explain to me how this is fair and euqal treatment? how is putting one peson ahead of another fair to everyone?

amazing how we hear how people want to be treated equally yet we rarely are.

thanks california!

preferential treatment isnt fair to anyone. its an insult to those who take advantage of it. "you're not good enough to get in here on your own merits so we'll give you a stepping stone and let you use your race as a factor for being admitted so you can get to the head of the line"

if that isnt racist i dont know what is.

I am having a littler problem digesting your thread, I am sorry if I am confuse but what are you against, the minority rights or white supremacy rights, I am not trying to be sarcastic but I always thought that minorities in California are the ones at the short end of the deal when it comes to their rights.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
can ANYONE explain to me why race should play a role in college admissions?

is there something i'm missing here? what does my race or sex have to do with me getting into college? why should it? shouldnt my wanting to further my education and get a career be enough?

if that isnt racist i dont know what is.

Rant, this is what I felt. I don't see how this could help equality. Are you saying that this helps the minorites?

Originally posted by marg6043
I am having a littler problem digesting your thread, I am sorry if I am confuse but what are you against, the minority rights or white supremacy rights, I am not trying to be sarcastic but I always thought that minorities in California are the ones at the short end of the deal when it comes to their rights.

i am against preferential treatment of ANYONE. period. full stop.

i dont care who you are. there should be only two requirements. A) you have test scores that are high enough to take the classes you want or need and B) you have a way to pay for your education. grants, parents, any governmental loans, private loans, an extra job...just about everyone qualifies these days. those who claim otherwise arent looking hard enough. i went to college with plenty of students who were on grants or loans.

Prank, I'm just going off what I heard in the debates.

Both sides have manipulated this issue into the ground.

I think I'm pretty much quoting Bustamante saying it's absurd that right wingers invented a law that no demographic data could be accumulated on applicants because it was "unconstitutional". There is such a thing as planning. Male dorms, female dorms, co-ed dorms. Hispanic assistance counselors. African studies coursework. Feminist studies. You know the crap they offer in Liberal Arts. Plus just being able to brag, like we've got a good representation of minorities....or half women...whatever. That matters in recruitment advertising.

But the issue started as a way to pre-empt affirmative action. Now it's been reinstated as a means of demographic capture. And oppnenets are saying it's a back door to AA. All politics aside....whatever.

We can legitimately argue the merits versus pitfalls of Affirmative Action (if you really want to), but I'm saying on this issue of collecting data, it's kind of just BS politics and not a big deal IMO.

Well thanks for the explanation, here in Georgia we had this majority and minority deal obviously and I notice how it works.

Gender place a role when it comes to certain colleges, like Georgia tech, because is majority of males they lower their standards of scores when it comes to females because they want more females applicants.

In Albany State University is race because majority is black they give incentives for other races to apply for they University, and UGA is race also considered they want more minorities to apply.

So in a way I think that California is giving their Colleges and Universities a way to keep equity when it comes to the individual needs of the communities. Now if it misuse well that happens everywhere in this country.

Originally posted by earthtone
I amjabsoloutely disgusted by this, how has it been allowed to happen, it has to be unconstitutional. To try and cover their backs , the bill includes that fact that it's fine "so long as no preference is given." Yet how can their not be a preference if somebody is making their choice based on race?

Ok, I got the wrong end of the stick here, it seems that this law actually helps the minorities. I believed that a law like this was actually premoting racism and would lead to people selecting more white folks for all the universities, but it seems to do quite the opposite. These laws will allow more moderation of how the system works, more data as Rant said.

I do agree with you Prank monkey, but the fact is, there is no racism towards white people in the system. .

wow what a poor selling point for any college.

instead of "our college can give you a good quality education giving you the ability to get a good job or career" and outlinging why...instead we get

"come to our college because most of our students are minorities"

last time i heard that was called exploitation. using a minority as a selling point because of college admissions is exploitation no matter how you look at it.

i still fail to see what that has to do with teaching classes. we cant teach "african studies" to jsut anyone but only certain people? does this apply to feminist studies as well?

those seeking housing generally have to find it on their own to begin with. they're adults, time to let them act like it.

this hand holding business and making it easier for certain people is simply mad.

yeah its so absurd we admit people based on test scores and their ability to find a way to pay for their education. heaven forbid we encourage people to go get an education because of their merits. oh no, we cant possibly have that. we have to make them feel as though they cant possibly get into a college unless their race or sex becomes an issue.


i see a lot of bad things coming out of this.

but this is what happens when you let career politicians stay in office. they ruin it for everyone.

Originally posted by marg6043
misuse

Indeed, this seems like a system that could be largely abused don't you think?

Originally posted by earthtone
Rant, this is what I felt. I don't see how this could help equality. Are you saying that this helps the minorites?

I won't repsond here since we had a pretty funny U2U exchange already about this before I saw the post.

But if nothing else, you've seen firsthand the lure and sex appeal of Anti-Affirmative action propaganda.

Sneaky, sneaky...no?

And Prank, (again) I'm not dismissing your views because I know they're honorable. You, like many, want equality now and consider AA to have outlived it's usefulness. I just don't think it has. And there we part.

Originally posted by RANT
[
Sneaky, sneaky...no?

Pretty godamn sneaky yes! I am totally for AA, it's sad that things can't be how you want them to be Prank, as it is the way it should be. But things just don't work like that.

[Edited on 6/4/2004 by earthtone]

Well may be in another state with different minority race issues this affirmative action is not seen the same way as state with more of this issues.

Here in Georgia you see these problems all the time and is obvious not college or university wants to be call racist or be sue for it.

Law suits in Georgia base on race are an everyday thing and I agree with the black history this is one of the stated in US that history has been by passed and students are failing.

California is trying to avoid these problems when it comes to races. Their problems is not so much gender that races, and as somebody mentioned before minority is not just a majority in California but most of the working force.

Originally posted by earthtone

I do agree with you Prank monkey, but the fact is, there is no racism towards white people in the system. .

funny, i never mentioned this, only that i dont think ANYONE should get preferential treatment.


at no time did i say white people or males were being discriminated against. i'm pretty sure they're being given a fair chance at least but to give anyone for any reason preferential treatment is an insult. its an insult to those who worked their butts off to get into college and its an insult to those who dont need this sort of treatment. not every minority uses their "special status" to get themselves where they want to go. some even choose to go it alone just to prove it can be done.


marg...

people go to a certain college because of its classes or its quality of education. at least this should be the defining factor not because the test requirements at one college is lower than another. thats called settling for what you can get and i am appalled by it. we should ALL make an effort to raise our standards.

the fact is there are black colleges, all woman colleges and they dont go out of their way to attract whites or males. should they have to? no, should they at all? only if they want to. and to be honest i dont care if they do. i think its shallow that people cant seem to make the effort to socialize with people who are different from them but thats still a right we have as individuals.


all guess what MLK said about being judged on ones content of ones chracter and not the color of their skin was pure drivel and noone seems to heed his words anymore.

Well at least its not a medical school, which BTW it happens at too. Nothing like less qualified people getting in and out (there are cases of lower testing people getting jobs because of there race) working on our lives. YEAAAAAAA. What sucks is these laws or whatever you want to call them were put in place to give minorities a chance to be equal but all it does really, is say you are different, you need our help. Now we are going to catagorize you based on your race and hey if your part eskimo, well Your In like Flinn. Bottom line when you go to colleges or Job interviews You have to visual meet with someone in most cases. And if that person is a racist, well then you screwed. So they said give them a quota to fill so they have to let them in.
But under Qualified to meet a quota is just plain wrong.

Granted I have contridicted myself here, but it a double bladed sword on this. Damm people suck. We just need to not give a crap who anyone is.

Does anyone here ever think that will happen, where people will be judged on actions alone?

Isn�t that funny that you can find more black colleges and all female colleges than all male and good forbid all male colleges?

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Damm people suck. We just need to not give a crap who anyone is.

I know shift, it's so sad. There is no real way to solve this problem fairly, the prank monkey has madea good point for this as he is right, it is not fair to give any consideration in this way. But this view doesn't help the majority of people who are being discriminated against.