Va. Gov. FORCED to say slavery was cause of the Civil War

Originally posted by Angus123
The most heartbreaking aspect of life in post civil war America... which continues to this day... is that young black students reject education as "acting white".

If you really believe that, maybe you need to get educated. It sickens me to see supposedly intelligent people spew such nonsense.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by klogic]

I don't understand why the confederacy and the civil war is such a big thing in the south in the first place, I mean they had their asses handed to them, what's to celebrate? The northern states should have a Union history month where they celebrate kicking ass and taking names lol I bet the south would have a complete hissy fit.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
I don't understand why the confederacy and the civil war is such a big thing in the south in the first place, I mean they had their asses handed to them, what's to celebrate? The northern states should have a Union history month where they celebrate kicking ass and taking names lol I bet the south would have a complete hissy fit.

I think there's a sports show where they try to do a "do over" of certain games played where they ended in a tie. They try to get the same teams and the same players etc. to do this "do over" to "finally see who won"

I say we do this again, have a football game with players from the north, against players from the south, and try to settle the score (again...) once and for all (again...)

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
I don't understand why the confederacy and the civil war is such a big thing in the south in the first place, I mean they had their asses handed to them, what's to celebrate? The northern states should have a Union history month where they celebrate kicking ass and taking names lol I bet the south would have a complete hissy fit.

I've lived in the South most of my life, born and raised there and currently reside there. I don't get the obsession with the Confederacy and Civil War that some Southerners have either. There is much to be proud of about Southern heritage and history outside of that four-year period.

Originally posted by Hitemhard
I say we do this again, have a football game with players from the north, against players from the south, and try to settle the score (again...) once and for all (again...)

I'm scared to ask if you're serious. I have a terrible suspicion you are...

reply to post by TheCoffinman


First and foremost, I would like to pose a question, which is...ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? Actually, by reading your post, I can see that you are serious, but are you seriously serious?

I will definitely give credit where credit is due...and you do have a point, which is the Civil War was indeed over states rights. But what you are wrong about, is the underlying issue that brought on the war. And why the states were actually trying to exercise their state rights. I will be more than happy to provide a quick and fast elucidation of the events that led up to the Civil war, so that you may gain some type of knowledge of US history. But unfortunately, four thousand characters just will not do justice.

There were many events that led to the Civil war, which I will not dive into here, otherwise this would be a 10 page essay...instead I'll just get right to the nitty gritty!

During the nineteenth century, America was morphing from an agrarian society into a more industrialized and mechanized society. America, which was at one point expanding faster over time than space, was now expanding over space faster than it was over time. With this expansion into the west, slave owners wanted the peculiar institution, or system of slavery to spread right along with it. The idea of Abolitionism proliferated in the north, while the mind of the southerner continued to hold on to old beliefs and ideologies . (Not just over slavery, but mechanization, religion, education...etc READ ABOUT IT...IT'S TRUE)
When the southern democrats who still championed the idea of slavery wanted to move west with the institution, northern radical republicans who championed abolitionism wanted to put a stop to what they saw now as inhumane. The southern states felt that it was their right(state rights) to do as they pleased within their boundaries, and they argued that if they weren't able to have freedom as a state to do as they please (perpetuate the institution of slavery) then they had no rights at all. They made their threat...and when Lincoln did not oblige, they succeeded. So in short, one cannot say that the Civil war was not over slavery, that was the main issue behind "state rights"! I mean ask yourself this question...what other issue were these states battling over? What other things were they told that they could not do, other than sustain the institution of slavery? There were no other things that they were prohibited from doing. Again, the issue at hand was... slavery. To have a better understanding...think of the health care plan that was just sign into law by Obama. I believe that there were either 13 or 14 states filing suit because they thought Obama's healthcare plan was preposterous! If the states that filed these law suits all loose, and all decided to succeed because they believe that their state rights were violated...then ask yourself, what is the underlying issue that caused them to succeed? Don't answer that...it was only rhetorical...Health care is the issue...


I'm not on here to bash...but I am willing to quibble a bit...



[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

Originally posted by xstealth
It is a disgrace to all those brave boys in gray who died for states rights and freedom from a tyrannical government.

Defending the institution of slavery is fighting for freedom from tyranny? You must have very peculiar definitions of freedom and tyranny.

Originally posted by klogic

Originally posted by Angus123
The most heartbreaking aspect of life in post civil war America... which continues to this day... is that young black students reject education as "acting white".

If you really believe that, maybe you need to get educated. It sickens me to see supposedly intelligent people spew such nonsense.


[edit on 9-4-2010 by klogic]

Like I said... no problem was ever solved by refusing to acknowledge it exists.
I suppose Bill Cosby is one of those supposed intelligent people too?

reply to post by Alxandro


The underlying issue which led to the Civil war...was indeed slavery. It was not that a bunch of white men wanted to fight for African American slaves (to answer your rhetorical question)...they were fighting to preserve the institution of slavery in order to expand into the west, so that they could make even more money. I guess we are forgetting the amount of wealth slavery produced...

After the Civil war was over, the wealth in the south diminished. I understand that there was a significant number of dead Confederate soldiers, which contributed to the economic decline...but also, one must consider, without free labor...production decreased, and hence, the wealth decreased.

And no...it was not republicans that started the KKK...I'm almost positive that it was probably one of the southern democrats that lost the war to north. Most veteran Confederates tried to hold on as long as they could to the 'Lost Cause'...

reply to post by Angus123


I concur with the person that your are disagreeing with 100 percent! I respect most posts on here, because some people do make valid points. There are a lot of people with parochial views, which cause them to utter such uneducated statements. And who is Bill Cosby to speak for the entire African American race? Is it just because he's African American that his answers are superior than most? ahhhh...I don't think so...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

Originally posted by Historymajor
reply to post by Angus123

 

I concur with the person that your are disagreeing with 100 percent! I respect most posts on here, because some people do make valid points. There are a lot of people with parochial views, which cause them to utter such uneducated statements. And who is Bill Cosby to speak for the entire African American race? Is it just because he's African American that his answers are superior than most? ahhhh...I don't think so...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

No, but his insights into the causes of the hardships black people face are relevant due to his being a member of that community.
And having worked many years in the inner city, and attending a predominantly black school as a child, my opinions are based on my observations.

I'm not here to disparage an entire race. But if you go to a doctor and he tells you you have a fatal disease, do you deny it exists and move on or do you try to fight it?

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by Historymajor
reply to post by Angus123

 

I concur with the person that your are disagreeing with 100 percent! I respect most posts on here, because some people do make valid points. There are a lot of people with parochial views, which cause them to utter such uneducated statements. And who is Bill Cosby to speak for the entire African American race? Is it just because he's African American that his answers are superior than most? ahhhh...I don't think so...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

No, but his insights into the causes of the hardships black people face are relevant due to his being a member of that community.
And having worked many years in the inner city, and attending a predominantly black school as a child, my opinions are based on my observations.

I'm not here to disparage an entire race. But if you go to a doctor and he tells you you have a fatal disease, do you deny it exists and move on or do you try to fight it?

I agree with you here, Cosby's insights are relevant, but they are also subjective. Not only did I work in the inner city, and attended a predominantly African American school, but I am African American, and I grew up in the inner city. I've seen these issues up close and in person, while having my 3D glasses on...so I did not miss a thing.
I have heard some similar arguments, and I would be lying if I did not say that there are African Americans that choose not to go to school to get educated, but thats in every race.
From my point of view, and yes it is subjective as well, I think the notion of relative deprivation and absolute deprivation plays a crucial role. Relative deprivation is when people in certain group have something to hope for. They are able to see something that they didn't think existed, so they aspire to be that...or want that particular thing. It opens the doors of the imagination. For example...if I live in the inner city area, and I'm exposed to drug dealers, prostitutes, and then one day I see lawyers, scientists, and dotctors...I've gotten a glimpse of both sides, so I can aspire to be more. People ask, why did the Civil Rights movment happen when it did, why not sooner. Why did they wait that long to rise up and voice their opinion? Relative deprivation was one of the main catalysts in igniting the Civil Rights movement. (When the US was over in Europe fighting the Germans over the idea of white superiority...they felt that if America would acknowledge that white superiority was indeed bad...social change would be even more feasible) On the contrary, absolute deprivation is when there is no hope. People are exposed to the same elements everyday, and aspiration exists on a micro level. An example of this would be, if I'm that same person living in the inner city, and now I'm only surrounded by drug dealers, murderers, and prostitutes. What will I aspire to be? I'm only seeing the lifestyle of the drug dealer and how he has gained eclat amongst the people in this area...why would I aspire to be anything else? One can counter my argument by suggesting that we all have a choice, but until you are actually put into that situtation...you cannot be sure. Its a process of conditioning that the whole world goes through, but on different levels. Why is it that people who live in nicer areas are more successful than the people living in the inner city area? Well they are exposed to nicer things, a better education, and more opportunities. I believe that there is more to factor into the equation...before we past judgement.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by Historymajor]

Everyone should get over slavery. Yes, it happened. But wasn't almost every race, at one point and time, in slavery? We need to move forward. If you live in the past you definitely can't enjoy the future. No one alive today has any kind of direct relationship with slavery. No one was a slavery, and no one owned slaves. So why are we still stuck on the issue?

Originally posted by Salara4
Everyone should get over slavery. Yes, it happened. But wasn't almost every race, at one point and time, in slavery?

Whether or not every race has experienced slavery at one time or another is irrelevant. It is hard to "get over" when there is an entire culture that still bears the wounds of slavery today.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Bears the wounds.........gimme a break. This is 2010, get over it. Since when does being black give you a right to declare what happened in the past? The naacp is nothing but an extortion group who does well at playing the victim. Geeeze, lets play your game......what the hell would make you happy? I guess letting blacks rewrite history to suit them, get ridiculous reparations and what else? At what point do the excuses and pc bs end?

reply to post by Angus123


I was not aware education had a colour. All you have proven is how ignorant you are about a people you know nothing about. I hope the myopia clouding your mind is fixed soon.
And Bill Cosby is from a generation who has no understanding of the youth today.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by klogic]

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

Bears the wounds.........gimme a break. This is 2010, get over it. Since when does being black give you a right to declare what happened in the past? The naacp is nothing but an extortion group who does well at playing the victim. Geeeze, lets play your game......what the hell would make you happy? I guess letting blacks rewrite history to suit them, get ridiculous reparations and what else? At what point do the excuses and pc bs end?

"letting the black rewrite history to suit them" You can't be serious with this statement! History does not have to be rewritten to suit African Americans, what's done is done, and it is evidently etched in stone. Americans are are all aware of the animalistic acts slave owners commited against not only African American slaves, but european indenture servants as well. African Americans are totally aware that the idea of having 40 acres and a mule will never come to fruition. But its obvious that you believe that even if the government granted reparations, that they do not deserve it. Here's a fact...America was built off of free labor...started with the American Indians, and ended with African Americans and indentured servants. And yes it is 2010, but racism still exists. Not just between blacks and whites, but all races. And if I may ask...what excuses are you referring to?

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
Bears the wounds...gimme a break. This is 2010, get over it. Since when does being black give you a right to declare what happened in the past? The naacp is nothing but an extortion group who does well at playing the victim. Geeeze, lets play your game...what the hell would make you happy? I guess letting blacks rewrite history to suit them...

What does the NAACP have anything to do with this? A proper accounting of history is not a "re-writing" as you put it. Slavery was a fact and slavery as a root-cause of the Civil War is fact. How is any of that a "re-writing" of history?

The ones trying to re-write history are those who want to ignore or downplay the significance of slavery in not only the Civil War but the one-hundred years that followed.

This nation is still living in the shadow of slavery. 1/4 African American families will deal with hunger this year, as opposed to 1/7 Americas on average. (Source) The median income for an African American family is $20,000 less than a White family and poverty rates at 16% higher. (Source). And the unemployment rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the national average. (Source)

[edit on 10-4-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by Salara4
Everyone should get over slavery. Yes, it happened. But wasn't almost every race, at one point and time, in slavery? We need to move forward. If you live in the past you definitely can't enjoy the future. No one alive today has any kind of direct relationship with slavery. No one was a slavery, and no one owned slaves. So why are we still stuck on the issue?

Yes, you have a point, slavery was part of most past civilizations, but what you're not mentioning is, the idea of CHATTEL slavery came into fruition after the transatlantic slave trade proliferated. The difference between these two ideas of slavery is...the slaves shackled to the old idea of slavery, were not treated as harshly as the slaves during the days of chattel slavery. (This is something that you would have to read about if you're interested.)
But back to your comment...we all have to remember our past in order to know where we are headed in the future. If I fail at something one day...and I try again at it, don't you think its valuable for one to look back upon their failures in order to motivate them into doing something greater. It is so cliche, but "history defiitely repeats itself" and to try to prevent that...one cannot just forget the past. Shall we forget everything that happened in the past? Even the good things? This is a debate between people will different ideologies and different beliefs, I think its healthy to quibble a bit amongst eachother just to see the other side. There's no harm right?

Well I have read all the post on this thread now and come to a conclusion. If the intent of the proclomation made by the Governor of VA was intended to cause division; it worked. Slavery is horrible (anywhere in the world); to make an argument that it was the main cause, the sole cause, no cause at all, for the civil war is fine. Disagree all you want, but the fact is that with a subject like this one you are bringing to light alot of tension that is obviously still held by many. The fact is this man made something on the state level that left out something that was important to many of his constituents. Even in his apology he said he wanted to highlight something he thought was important to Virginians. I am from VA. I am not mad about this because I've grown up around opposing views my whole life. I realize the author of this thread was angry over what happened, but this is something that is bubbling around the country. I just hope this along with other issues being tackled doesn't spark something ugly.