September Clues

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
I was banned forthwith based on a directive of Jeff's dated August 20, www.rigorousintuition.ca..., which stated peremptorily that

Advocating or advancing theories contending that no planes whatsoever struck the WTC is not permitted, and such threads will be subject to locking, moving to the Fire Pit, or deletion.

In the same vein, yesterday, I began posting on Phil Jahan's long-running 9/11 forum, Let's Roll, for the first time, and within the day I was permanently banned for speaking positively (albeit only tangentially) about no-plane theory.

That's because nowhere in the 9/11 truth movement is the discussion of NPT allowed except PFT forum.

For example, here's what other 9/11 research organizations have posted on their forums:

9/11 Blogger:

So those who propose that the 9/11 planes were video forgeries or "holographs" are either seriously confused, or they are purposefully promoting disinformation.

This site will not defend, support, or promote the instigators of these lies, or those who give them a platform. They are not friends of the truth.

Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice:

STJ does not support theories of exotic weaponry or similar (DEW, nukes, TV Fakery, no planes at the WTC) and will remove from it's membership any who make public assertions about such theories. That is not a personal decision but a scientific, strategic and common sense one -- those theories have no scientific evidence to support them and serve to undermine what our own published researchers are moving forward with by making us appear nonsensical, and cannot be supported by STJ.

Loose Change forums:

NPT theories (no-plane theories), and support of movies like September Clues, is not allowed in any way. Planes hit the WTC. We refuse to allow that to be disputed on this forum.

Other organizations that do not support no-plane/tv fakery "theories" also include:

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Pilots for 9/11 Truth
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

These, with the aforementioned, make up the bulk of the research organizations within the 9/11 truth movement.

You can read more about the above and the debunks to the no-plane "theories" in my thread here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
I am saying the discussion, here as well as elsewhere, has been stilted and stultified by what would appear to me to be an organized and semi-professional effort by gatekeepers, flamers and spammers.

I guess that would be the entire 9/11 truth movement then because as I said, nowhere in the entire 9/11 truth movement is NPT allowed to be discussed except for PFT forums and they don't even support NPT. They just allow the discussion.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
"Vicsim theory" would be a rude, disgusting and heartless concept were it not true, but unfortunately it is true.

Maybe in your mind, but there is zero scientific evidence to back up your claims.




[edit on 28-3-2010 by _BoneZ_]

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by stevenwarran2

 

So, let me get this straight. Are you saying that all the firefighters that died on 9/11 are all "false, fake and fraudulent creations " ? I find that a bit hard to swallow. I don't profess to have all the answers to what really happened on 9/11. I see scores of indiscrepancies, impossible 'facts', OFFICIAL lies and counter-lies, miraculous 'coincidences',etc., in the OS. I also see a lot of theories posted within the TM that my rational mind refuses to process as valid. But to see someone claim that there were no victims on 9/11 goes well above and beyond my comprehension of 'reality'.

Perhaps you would care to explain to me as to why and how you can hold such a belief ? 'Enlighten' me, if you will ?

Yes, okbmd, the principle behind the "false, fake and fraudulent creations" as concerns the fire department is two-fold. First is Vicsim theory, which holds that a large percentage of the supposed dead from 9/11 were never real people to begin with, but rather just computer generated identities fleshed out in some cases by actors playing the roles of grieving family members for the benefit of the press. I will direct you to the Reality Shack forum here: z6.invisionfree.com..., but you're on your own from there. It will be quite a slog.

My penultimate blog, and the preceding 20 or so, concern themselves with this false-victim syndrome. Check it out at stevenwarran.blogspot.com... Some accessible work is around the fake "missing person's fliers" that blanketed Manhattan.

You will find many of this type of vicsim in the ranks of Cantor-Fitzgerald, and the other companies above the impact zone, which could be counted on to produce the vast majority of the dead.

I think Vicsims are less likely to be found within the ranks of the NYFD for several reasons. If they are there, they flesh out (sorry for the unintended pun,) the numbers and will be found in the least publicized cases.

A disproportionate number of the NYFD are from the top of the hierarchy there. Special forces, leaders and Chiefs, who rather than going up the staircase in a mindless, uncoordinated and pointless rush, went DOWN the staircases into waiting vehicles, which spirited them away. These were real men, in real careers, who were "rendered" away into secret new identities, in the style of the early 1960's document, Operation Northwoods, from the Joint Chief's of Staff, which I'm sure you know about already.

The NYFD is a quasi-military organization, which could be counted on to cooperate with this kind of secret plan. If you were a blue collar grunt making $60,000 a year, and suddenly you and your family could be enriched by several million dollars each, how hard to you think the decision would be? Remember: it's an offer you co...

Maybe my blog about NYPD officer Vincent Danz would be useful here. stevenwarran.blogspot.com...

Not all NYFD were faked deaths however. I believe that some, like Father Mychal Judge and Danny Suhr were sacrificial victims killed at the hands of their own band of brothers, as ritualistic, covert or ceremonial deaths. See Ray Ubinger's excellent work about Judge for instance, here www.911foreknowledge.com... or my blog work, here stevenwarran.blogspot.com... here stevenwarran.blogspot.com... here stevenwarran.blogspot.com... here stevenwarran.blogspot.com... and here stevenwarran.blogspot.com...

I know. It is a lot to take in, and extremely painful if you are new to it. Good luck and thanks for giving me the chance.

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Pilots for 9/11 Truth
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

These are all government sponsored efforts, like most others that have ever gained a toe-hold, from Alex Jones to Dylan Avery. They amount to limited hangouts meant to steer and control the unfolding of "truth." I'm not supposed to say you, _BoneZ_, are one of them, so I won't ...dot...dot...dot...

I would agree whole-heartedly that it isn't likely no-planes theory will be proven on the basis of scientific evidence. You architects and engineers can't even get a proper hearing about the physics of the building collapse for heaven's sakes! How much harder it will be to effect a seismic change in mass consciousness when our collective perceptions were manipulated by master psy-opticians! Kudos to them!

But with the Vicsim theory, you (speaking to the PTB,) will be unable to hold the fort. This is the tipping point where even with the mass collusion of the media, they won't be able to manufacture new and corrected evidence fast enough; enough disparate elements of falsehood will still exist to continually trip up their efforts.

No-planes theory and Vicsim theory are the Unified String Theory of 9/11. All the evidence falls into place once you grasp the overarching structure of the Big Lie, in my exceedingly humble opinion.

The NO Plane Theory on 9/11 is one of the more dangerous ones in my view. It can't be healthy to go around thinking that such an enormous amount of people were involved in such. It is also ludicrous to believe that all the amateur footage that day was controlled. If this is the reasoning where does it end? Anyone could say literally anything.

They could start arguing that the World Trade Center was a Hologram, or that Mind Control was used and we were all duped and there was never an event known as 9/11, we are only hypnotized into believing something occurred. Since the Media told us it happened and since the Media is totally "IN ON IT" then we can't be sure it happened! This is ludicrous and it is making the error of multiplying causes beyond necessity.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
These are all government sponsored efforts

Thank you for admitting that you think the entire 9/11 truth movement is a government-sponsored effort. At least we know where your credibility stands now.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
All the evidence falls into place once you grasp the overarching structure of the Big Lie

Too bad there never has been, nor ever will be scientific evidence of "vicsims" or NPT.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
in my exceedingly humble opinion.

And that's the cake-topper. It's your opinions that make up the "evidence" of NPT and "vicsims". Nothing more.

Originally posted by talisman
They could start arguing that the World Trade Center was a Hologram

They do even go that far. The videos are fake. The witnesses that saw the planes are all liars. The victims are fake. Some of the buildings in Manhattan are fake. The list goes on. Their isn't any end to the purposeful disinformation that the tv fakery cult puts out.

That's because nowhere in the 9/11 truth movement is the discussion of NPT allowed except PFT forum.

For example, here's what other 9/11 research organizations have posted on their forums:

9/11 Blogger:

So those who propose that the 9/11 planes were video forgeries or "holographs" are either seriously confused, or they are purposefully promoting disinformation.

This site will not defend, support, or promote the instigators of these lies, or those who give them a platform. They are not friends of the truth.

Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice:

STJ does not support theories of exotic weaponry or similar (DEW, nukes, TV Fakery, no planes at the WTC) and will remove from it's membership any who make public assertions about such theories. That is not a personal decision but a scientific, strategic and common sense one -- those theories have no scientific evidence to support them and serve to undermine what our own published researchers are moving forward with by making us appear nonsensical, and cannot be supported by STJ.

Loose Change forums:

NPT theories (no-plane theories), and support of movies like September Clues, is not allowed in any way. Planes hit the WTC. We refuse to allow that to be disputed on this forum.

Other organizations that do not support no-plane/tv fakery "theories" also include:

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Pilots for 9/11 Truth
Lawyers for 9/11 Truth
Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

These, with the aforementioned, make up the bulk of the research organizations within the 9/11 truth movement.

You can read more about the above and the debunks to the no-plane "theories" in my thread here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wait a minute! Aren't we having this discussion on AboveTopSecret? Aren't these threads considered part of the "9/11 truth movement?"

My eye: mote.
Your eye: plank.


As to to the rest of your comments _BoneZ_, speaking to the "proof" of these concepts, and to my credibility to espouse them, you could pretend to spend a few moments examining my blog work before you ridicule and condemn my posts here. Why the anger and outrage when confronting these concepts? As I said to Phil Jahan, our positions aren't so far apart as all that. He also agrees that no planes hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville, nor did a regularly scheduled big Boeing---filled with innocent passengers and commandeered by ideological Muslims---crash into the twin trade towers.

Now I'll go read the link you provided where you "debunk" no-plane theory, and maybe I'll see what you do believe in. That way, I'm not guilty of the same horribly intellectually myopic behavior that you are.

reply to post by _BoneZ_

The witnesses that saw the planes are all liars

Of the less than 100 witnesses in Arlington who reference a plane in any fashion, I've written scores of blogs debunking their validity.

You might start by reading only two- about Tim Timmerman, stevenwarran.blogspot.com... and his roommate Dawn Vignola stevenwarran.blogspot.com...

Listen very carefully to the last comments made during Dawn's phone call to
the local CBS affiliate, Channel 9. The male voice in the background prompting her is Timmerman's. Dawn's last observation,

"This was right, aimed right at it. But unfortunately I think it hit the heliport, and it didn’t look like it damaged too much of the Pentagon"

This was followed by her prompter's soft correction: "Fortunately."

Yes, all the eyewitnesses in New York are liars, just like in Arlington. It is an eminently manageable scenario--as are every meaningful contribution by the news media.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by stevenwarran2]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by talisman
They could start arguing that the World Trade Center was a Hologram

They do even go that far. The videos are fake. The witnesses that saw the planes are all liars. The victims are fake. Some of the buildings in Manhattan are fake. The list goes on. Their isn't any end to the purposeful disinformation that the tv fakery cult puts out.

Are you really saying that anybody says the World Trade Center is a hologram? And you expect to retain any credibility? Retract such nonsense at once. You must have misspoken in haste.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
Aren't these threads considered part of the "9/11 truth movement?"

AboveTopSecret is not a 9/11 research website. It's a discussion forum for discussing all conspiracy theories, including 9/11 and godzilla.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
He also agrees that no planes hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville.

Of the less than 100 witnesses in Arlington who reference a plane in any fashion, I've written scores of blogs debunking their validity.

Good for you, however, this thread "September Clues", NPT, and tv fakery, have nothing to do with the Pentagon or Shanksville.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
Yes, all the eyewitnesses in New York are liars

And with that, the demise of your credibility is complete.

Unbelievable....

reply to post by _BoneZ_

And with that, the demise of your credibility is complete.

Unbelievable....

This from a man who says some 9/11 theorists claim the World Trade Center is a hologram!

reply to post by stevenwarran2


Okay, I actually took the time to check out several of the links that you posted. This way I can't be accused of being ignorant of what you have to say. Fair enough ?

I, personally, cannot for the life of me see where you are doing anything other than grasping at straws. This is not meant as a personal attack. I just failed to find anything that would come close to conclusively proving any point you may be trying to make.

However, there were a couple of telling statements which you had posted in the comments at Reality Shack..."This implicates all the Jewish people,on some level ... when their lips move we can know they are lying ..." ., "...think of all the conniving Jews and stupid sheeple-Christians ... "

This speaks volumes as to your mindset, but even after wading thru this rhetoric I continued to your blogs. Again, I found nothing that remotely convinced me that anything you were saying could be construed as credible.

So, don't take it personally, I just feel there is absolutely no merit to your claims/theories/arguements .

reply to post by okbmd


How interesting that you could approach Reality Shack for the first time and come away with those snippets of anti-Jewish rhetoric of mine. Where ever did you find them? On the first page of the first thread? How much time did you spend there?

Of course, if I implicate the media on a vast scale---which is what no-planes theory, TV trickery, and Vicsim theory do---I implicate the Jewish power structure on a vast scale. The Iraq war was a Jewish war. 9/11 was a Jewish call to war.

Read my blog about Ira Rennert stevenwarran.blogspot.com... for anecdotal evidence. He's the man who made hundreds of millions of dollars selling the company that made the military Hummer vehicle that so badly failed our Iraq servicemen in the bargain.

As for my comments about, "when their [Jews] lips move we can know that they are lying," I have written literally scores of blogs about Jewish deceit, up to and including deceit that speaks directly to telling the holocaust story, but that doesn't forgive such an over-the-top smear--so I take it back and apologize for it.

As to what little you were able to glean in a brief go-over of my blog, let me say that we are on an entirely different level of perception and intercourse here than we are, for instance, when discussing the scientific evidence that our good friend _BoneZ_ addresses.

In his signature tag _BoneZ- has "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth," so he must be in one of those, or in a related field, but nowhere has the 9/11 truth community been failed to such a degree as we have by these highly specific and rigorous technicians.

Take Building 7 for example---the first and only steel-framed structure felled by fire alone. Although its remains were shipped out to Fresh Kills and were segregated to be combed over by the FBI in its own separate field, no steel was saved for study. This was obstruction of justice in the highest degree. And no photos exist of the south face of Building 7, which might depict the damage that caused it to fall.

Here we have implicated every architect, engineer, law enforcement professional and media professional into a surreality---a suspension of disbelief that takes us down the rabbit hole into a netherworld where up is down and black is white.

_BoneZ_ acts like he has a grasp on the total 9/11 research community [however, he makes no mention of the most rigorously intellectual one of all--the911forum.freeforums.org...] but he can't even fulfill his role in his corner of it. He is a gatekeeper for any newcomers who might stumble in here, a popular place which allows a discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories at all (Huffington Post doesn't, although they allow people like Paul Rieckhoff stevenwarran.blogspot.com... to spew his garbage and nonsense there. No-planes is marginalized by design intent of the PTB---not by nature of the arguments.)

Since every architect, engineer, law enforcement professional and media professional in the land has agreed that the United States government is an unassailable criminal enterprise, they have agreed to go it the way of a false dialectics, and there is no better example of this than the first four pages of this thread, which is why I've decided to tag onto it. This IceDash character is comical in the extreme. We read these pages and we think a real argument or discussion is taking place and this enervates one. Just, not me.

I know we aren't supposed to talk about one another this way, but IMO the same force and power that inspires and motivates _BoneZ_, also inspires and compels IceDash. They are cake frosting and I am whole-wheat bread. That is why I believe the managers of this forum will allow me to stay even if I technically break the rules.

reply to post by okbmd

This speaks volumes as to your mindset, but even after wading thru this rhetoric I continued to your blogs. Again, I found nothing that remotely convinced me that anything you were saying could be construed as credible.

okbmd, My blog is the number one Google return for literally hundreds of search terms relating to 9/11. In some cases I have to battle it out with Wikipedia and fall somewhere into the top five, but almost always you needn't trouble your scroll finger to find me.

I don't know what to make of my Google popularity. I write a blog about Phil Jahan and within five seconds of posting it it is the number one search return for his name. My statcounter certainly doesn't reflect such internet prominence.

My thanks to Sergey Brin and Larry Page in any case.

Since rationality has failed us, in order to understand events I have moved off into the land of myth, and symbol, and metaphysics, and even something called 'pataphysics, which has been described to me as "the science of imaginary solutions," and a realm an equal distance from metaphysics as metaphysics is from ordinary reality. I am said to be brilliant at this, but that may be a coded put down, so remain under advisement.

If you are sincere in your search for truth, I ask that you give me another try---and please don't be blinded by the smokescreen of antisemitism. 9/11 wasn't the first "Big Lie" to come down the pike, otherwise they wouldn't have had anything to input into their computer modeling scenarios. I leave it to you to decide what that history of lies might be, and to imagine the freeing and liberating effect uncovering the truth for yourself feels like. Bon voyage!



[edit on 29-3-2010 by stevenwarran2]

reply to post by stevenwarran2


I'm not certain...is self-promotion of one's own blog allowed here?

I'm a little rusty on the T&Cs, so I may have misinterpreted them....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, we see where your mindset is at. Nothing about the message, everything about the messenger, but thanks for the bump nonetheless.

reply to post by stevenwarran2


Oh, I have plenty of opinion about the "message". Been said, already, quite eloquently by others, no need for me to chime in with essentially the same points.

But, in case that wasn't clear enough --- bunk. "September Clues", 'vicsims'...in fact, it's actually insulting to people's intelligence, to be frank.

Like I said, it's been explained thoroughly, many many times, not just in this thread, but in numerous others....

Have a thoughtful day.

reply to post by weedwhacker


So why would you come back to engage me a second time?! Do we need to get a psychologist in here to explain human nature? If it is a settled matter in your mind, then stay away!

But thanks again for another bump.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by stevenwarran2]

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
That is why I believe the managers of this forum will allow me to stay even if I technically break the rules.

Yeah, don't count on it. There's a zero-tolerance policy in effect.

Every single no-planer before you has gotten themselves banned or ran away with their tails between their legs because once they get educated with real facts, they can't do anything but to attack or run.

For instance, there is a debate forum here on ATS. Here is a debate between me and another no-planer. I'll let you see who won. But suffice it to say, he eventually got himself banned as you can tell by going to his member page.


What I've noticed about your posts so far is you are already headed down the path of those before you. You've done nothing but attack FDNY, and pretty much the entire 9/11 truth movement.

What you haven't done is try to show any provable, factual evidence to support your claims. Nor do I expect you to since there is none.

Any time you think you have enough "facts" or "evidence" to prove no-planes or tv fakery, you go ahead and contact Semperfortis and have him set up the debate.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
My blog is the number one Google return for literally hundreds of search terms relating to 9/11.

Is that so? Care to tell us what search terms those are, because I tried several and looking at 5 pages, your blog doesn't show.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
I don't know what to make of my Google popularity. I write a blog about Phil Jahan and within five seconds of posting it it is the number one search return for his name.

Is this "Google popularity" imagined? I typed in Phil's name and giving you the benefit of the doubt, I went back ten pages and still no blog of yours.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
in order to understand events I have moved off into the land of myth

That's not surprising since that's where no-planes and tv fakery reside.

Originally posted by stevenwarran2
I ask that you give me another try

That's kinda hard to do when every one of your posts have been attacks or self-promotion. How about sticking to the topic and posting some verifiable, tangible evidence of no-planes or tv fakery?

_BoneZ_, I would pit my tone of equanimity against any of the rest of you here who sound off with such extraordinary arrogance as you pretend to dominant the playing field that you can spout such lines as, "everybody KNOWS that no-planes theory is bosh." EVERYBODY does not think in the same narrow, limited and calcified fashion as you and your compatriots do.

I am unfamiliar with the debate format you propose and so will have to familiarize myself with it before I accept your offer of a debate. But, really, I can't wait; I'm chomping at the bit to engage anyone in a serious conversation without the insulting platitudes you throw out in defense of your position. No-planes and Vicsim may be just "pet theories" but you're unlikely to encounter the same degree of sincerity as you will find with me. And THAT is what the debate has always been missing in my opinion. IceDash indeed!

As to what my Google status is at the moment---about a year ago I posted a blog with 70 or so links to other blogs, which all came in at the top of Google searches. stevenwarran.blogspot.com... These are the sorts of searches I was referring to:

what time did the pentagon get hit in 911
lauren ashburn
ira rennert
danny suhr
jared hansbrough
father stephen mcgraw
allan dodds frank
calvin drayton
donovan upchurch
james nachway
hillary smith garrison 3
tim timmerman
brian birdwell
steve riskus 3
chris plante pentagon
michael garcia pentagon
"eric gundersen"
eric m jones
mike buchanan pentagon
jude rothschadl
james s. robbins pentagon
dawn vignola
ron sachs pentagon
"kurt sonnenfeld"
david tarantino 911
andrea roane pentagon
gary bauer pentagon
margaret falk
maj. dan pantaleo
father mychal judge pentagon
bernard brown pentagon
sgt chris braman pentagon 9/11
carmen burgess 3
blair bozek pentagon 4
steve riskus 3
bob pugh videographer 5
lloyd england
fred gaskin pentagon 911 witness
jocelyn augustino photographer 3
aziz elhallan
hyungwon kang pentagon 3
justin scott,acfd 2
lori grinker jew
juana arias pentagon
albert turi
bob houlihan pentagon 3
mark faram
kevin allen oem nyc
christopher “kit” landis
bill cosgrove 9/11 attacks nyc pd 2
dewitt d roseborough iii
dave winslow ap reporter 5
james a. parcell pentagon
brian boisvert pentagon 2
isabel james pentagon
luke frazza pentagon 2
mohammad abdi 2
dan lopez, the daily progress, 9-11
chris sanseviro
penny elgas
charles burroughs pentagon mwaa
will morris 911 2
brian mulheren 3
bco ian meyer
dave thomas us navy
daryl donley
beta theta pi secrets
beyond pearl harbor novak
critical thrash
swg.trogdor.us
pentagon columns
ron sachs photographer
ap photo pentagon tom horan
trent munson virginia pilot

"Phil Jahan" still comes in at number one for me, and that is with "safe search" on, and without any customizations that would skew the results in favor of my work. Additionally, I was out of the country for several weeks recently, using public computers, and I was consistently amazed at the prominence afforded my blog work on Google.

It is a silly thing to be arguing about in any case. I offered it up to counter your claim that you completely dominated the paradigm---and also perhaps as a warning that you not get blindsided out of left field. Wounded Knee

As to my "insulting" the members of the NYFD, it is the result of my research and blog writing that I can say that the members of the NYFD are not only sham heroes, they are villains and scoundrels of the highest order. Should anybody want to discuss this matter "in person," I have been out on line for four years, with my contact information eminently available, and I live in the vicinity, and am easily reachable by phone or in person. This establishes a higher degree of credibility to espouse my beliefs than anyone else on this board---anonymously---possesses.

I would hope the administrators of AboveTopSecret recognize all of this. They would be tired of the same sham, shallow insincerity as has been your forte.