Parents Angry Over CCTV In School Toilets

Originally posted by TaxpayersUnleashed
When are you going to understand that they are sick people running your government. When they want to help you , they really want to HELP you.

Nothing to do with government or the state.

I replied to the other thread on this story and because the same thing will get raised again and again, it's perhaps worthwhile posting it again here:


Yes, we are watched like hawks. Unfortunately for some conspiracy theorists though, we're not watched like hawks by a police state, we're actually watched like hawks by private firms and businesses. Yes, there are a fair amount of cameras in the streets (isn't New York meant to be going that way and proposals have been drawn-up to increase CCTV in 'public' areas?) but the vast majority of them are tied to businesses: shops, shopping centres, private homes and so on.

Now where this all ties-in to this school-based story - and this is going to be as equally an unpopular an explanation to a scare story as are my repeated posts on NHS scaremongering - is the private business angle.

What a lot of people (on both sides of the Atlantic) don't realise is that much of the hospitals over here are involved in Private Finance Initiatives and, in many respects have been semi-privatised. That's regular local hospitals and not obviously 'private' hospitals. So all these 'socialised medicine horror stories' are invariably a nonsense and should be retitled 'privatised medicine horror stories'.

Schools are a similar issue. Many schools in England are now tied to Private Finance Initiative contracts. This usually means that the government/tax payer paid handed over a large wedge of money to a private firm that builds and then runs a school or renovates and remodels an existing older school and then takes control of the actually running of the school.

These types of schools often become called or relabelled 'Academies' rather than 'schools'. The school in this story is one of them.

So, again it's not a police state or nanny state that's to blame for this, it's actually a private firm.

when you say in the toilets, do you mean like actually in the toilets? Like the toilet bowl? Wow, that's so hardcore, that's not even triple x, that's like quadruple X. Way to be good role models for the children--fail.

I'm a teacher. You wouldn't BELIEVE some of the stuff that goes on in a school's restroom.

I can't speak for this school, of course. But I don't have a problem with cameras in the restroom provided they aren't hanging over the toilet. Just watching the sink/trashcan areas.

Someone mentioned you can smell cigarette smoke, notice when drugs have been taken. This is true....but the video camera provides evidence and proof. Because we've had to call in parents for this and had them refuse to believe us.

It's a tricky situation, and needs to be watched VERY carefully by the parents to make sure its not abused.

Originally posted by LostNemesis
Yeah, the students have good reason to be pissed off.

Maybe instead of being pissed off, they should piss on something. Say a CCTV camera. I know I would.

Firstly I wasn't the least bit suprised that this article came from the UK.

Smileygirl, I know you are a teacher but you need to understand that just because you are part of a forced institution it does not give you the right to invade a childs privacy or to take total control over their lives. You are payed to EDUCATE children not spy on them.

Children need to make mistakes on their own. Yes, there is smoking, drinking and bullying going on in the bathroom. This also happens on the bus, on the walk to school, in the classrooms, hallways, playground, in the streets and in the home. God, the bathroom was my favorite place in school, somewhere you can go laugh or cry with your friends without some self-riteous teacher up your nose. (No offense meant to the teachers out there....this is the way we feel about you as youths!)
Here in New York they are considering cutting the budget to make a shorter school week and to do away with the Regents program. But oh where do they find the money to install CCTV's in bathrooms? I think its terrible that my child and children like her have to recieve a second rate education so that other, less intelligent children don't get "left behind" Boo-hoo for them.

And posters you are TOTALLY right, who is watching the watchers, how can they be sure that the security will not be breached and people don't start taking advantage of this. Which WILL inevitably happen.

Still, we can sit here and exchange pretty much the same opinion all day, knowing that this is wrong and not do a darn thing about it. Or go find out what kind of new, fancy ideas your childs school is implementing and if you don't like it SAY SO! For example, my daughter came home the other day fully educated on how to use, the desired effects and slang names for all sorts of drugs from Heroine to Inhalants to Robbotussin. Thank God my child knows all there is to know about drugs, how would she have ever have coped in a society of prescription drug abusers. Who in the hell do they think they are. It is my job to teach her what I feel she needs to know about drugs (and sex) not theirs.

Lastly, they are indoctrinating our children into a totalitarian society where it is okay to be watched, finger printed, retina scanned etc... They are going to grow up thinking all this is normal, they won't know that there was a time when people were free.

Originally posted by mutantgenius

You are payed to EDUCATE children not spy on them.

Good point, but i see a teacher as someone who is also there to look after their wellbeing whilst they are at school away from their parents, therefore if it does not become an inappropriate invasion of privacy, i think they are ok.

Just my opinion though.

I'll have to go back and read the story again, but have they said if the cameras will be watched, or just recording tapes that could be used later if needed?

CX.

It's a tricky situation, and needs to be watched VERY carefully by the parents to make sure its not abused.


How do you suppose that parents are going to "watch this very carefully to make sure it is not abused"

It's a tricky situation, and needs to be watched VERY carefully by the parents to make sure its not abused.

reply to post by mutantgenius


Let parents audit the video, whenever, without prior notice.

I think that's the only way it could be monitored.

Smileygirl, I know you are a teacher but you need to understand that just because you are part of a forced institution it does not give you the right to invade a childs privacy or to take total control over their lives. You are payed to EDUCATE children not spy on them.

reply to post by mutantgenius


Agreed. My job is to educate our students, I support that 100%.

But there are some realities to consider.

Drug use, sexual conduct, fights, etc all happen in the bathroom. It could be effectively argued that these situations adversly impact a student's learning.

Schools have been sued for failing to protect children from these types of occurrences. Just this past year I had a parent threaten me with physical violence because his child saw another child smoking in the restroom. Apparently the second child offered him a cigarette and the father was (understandably) upset. When I explained that I cannot enter the boys restroom, that's when he got angry.

Its not a black and white issue, in my opinion.

Originally posted by mutantgenius
Firstly I wasn't the least bit suprised that this article came from the UK.

Why's that? Becuase parents were informed and the cameras are in plain sight, unlike some other places we could mention where they actually do invade your privacy by spying on you in your own home without your knowledge and where a camera is secreted in ever corner to make sure you're not pilfering the office products.

Same goes for you Australians, the UK has nothing on you lot when it comes to telling people what to do, or have you conveniently forgotten that you're the home of analy retentive censorship and like to arrest folk for hentai.

People in glass houses etcetera. Stop finger wagging and take a long hard look at your own domain before casting aspertions abroad.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by quackers]

reply to post by quackers


Hey dude, don't get so worked up. I grew up in Yorkshire.
On my last visit I was appauled at the open surveillance of private citizens. That is not the England that I left. Hence, not suprised, its just an INEVITABLE cog in the machine.
And yeah, you're right this stuff is going on all over.

reply to post by smyleegrl


So you agree with it only to protect youself. Forget about civil rights. The dangers of allowing surveillance like this to occur, is that our children will grow up used to this and there will always be an valid reason wrapped around someones self interest until there is no freedom left.

reply to post by smyleegrl

I cant even go to my childs classroom without prior notice!!!! Maybe her teacher isn't working, maybe she is on ATS instead! It just doesn't seem like it will work the way it is supposed to. It will become, like every other silly idea, another way for bad people to abuse children in some way or another.

So you agree with it only to protect youself.

reply to post by mutantgenius


This isn't about me or my rights as a teacher. At all. It's about the children, and their safety.

Look, I'm not advocating schools set up security cameras. I'm simply pointing out the reason why some schools choose to do so. It's not because there's some hidden agenda to spy on the children, or what have you. It's because some students make very poor decisions in areas where they are unmonitored. Pure and simple.

Parents should revolt en masse! When the teachers and administrators show up for work and they are the only ones in the school, maybe they will rethink their policy. They don't get any Fed or State money if their students don't come to school!

This story reminded me of a Sheriff's daughter that I knew back in Springfield. She (among many others) got filmed in a Tanning Bed that was attached to a Video store (kind of a weak disguise, lol)! The Video store began selling these videos of the tanners! It just so happened that one was the daughter of a sheriff, and a big stink ensued. Unbelievably, the courts sided with the video store because of a couple of key points. 1. The people paid to go in and use the tanning bed, and there was no indication anywhere guaranteeing privacy.
2. They signed a contract with the tanning salon that had vague language about using the facilities and what was property of the salon and such.
3. The state law at the time (and still) indicates that if at least one party to the contract or meeting is aware of the filming, then it is legal!

The salon and video store pretty much lost all of its customers, and I don't know what type of personal revenge they may have incurred, but at least in court, they were justified!

I cant even go to my childs classroom without prior notice!!!! Maybe her teacher isn't working, maybe she is on ATS instead! It just doesn't seem like it will work the way it is supposed to. It will become, like every other silly idea, another way for bad people to abuse children in some way or another

reply to post by mutantgenius


You seem a little hostile, and I don't understand why. Obviously this topic is upsetting to you, and one you feel very deeply about.

If you're insuinating that I'm on ATS instead of working....wrong. My son is sick and we are at home today.

On to your child's classroom. I don't understand why you can't go into the classroom without prior notice, unless the teacher fears it may disrupt the classroom. That does happen sometimes when an unexpected visitor drops in. However, you ought to have the right to go and peek in the door, just to see what's going on. I tell my parents they are welcome (as long as we're not testing, that is) to come anytime. Everyone else I work with has that same policy. Perhaps its something you should discuss with your school officials or the prinicipal.

It was a joke....(teachers on ATS...who ever heard of it....sorry if you thought I was attacking you, just couldn't help drop that one in there)

Honestly, I have a strong disdain for mandatory institutions. School these days is more about behavior modification than critical thinking. This is the inevitable step from an organized institution like the education system. Consequently, there are more inevitable outcomes which we have yet to experience. CCTV is one of those. Next will be microchips and retina scans. Less rights for good, informed, active parents such as myself and more rights for looming public institutions, run by private corporations. You, as an educator are just a middle man, unwittingly providing a fertile field for government and corporations to sew their seeds of destruction.
Forgive me, but I feel that teachers such as yourself, no matter your passion, integrity, good intentions etc.. have been educated by that same system.
Like you said, unfortunately there are parents out there who just need someone to blame. They always cop out on the teacher even tho they know their kids a little brat. Couldn't we fix this crappy attitude by educating our children differently. Maybe giving them room to make mistakes on their own and punish them accordingly? I understand the implications for school staff, you want to protect yourselves, but in the long run, is it really worth it?

Originally posted by mutantgenius
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I cant even go to my childs classroom without prior notice!!!!

But, to be fair, it's not just your child's classroom though is it? It's the classroom of a lot of children. I'm fairly sure that the plenty of the mums and dads of those kids aren't too keen on the idea of adults just dropping-in unannounced.

I would yank my child out of that school so fast
and see a good lawyer on the way home ...

Then call a meeting with all the parents I could gather ...

There is no good reason for cameras in the bathroom (period)

reply to post by Merriman Weir


To be fair, my tax dollars are paying for all the funding that the schools are supposedly getting, I should be able to pop in any time I like (albeit I would respect testing) and see what my child is learning.