Eric Lawyer-Firefighter-911 was a Criminal Coverup

Originally posted by HeinousOne
reply to post by Bspiracy

 

If one commission member thinks the Tower itself is part of a conspiracy going back to its creation 30 years before 9/11 then I for one think that warrants some serious investigation. What were they shown in that Commission?

Back to what creation? the Towers? He left that totally open so if you are assuming he was talking about the Towers then risk a skew of his true viewpoint.

this is where the Church Committee comes in to question. They unearthed a lot of conspiratorial instances and since then (30 years ago) the Alphabet Agencies have conspiratorially kept information silent and from public scrutiny. Was that what he was talking about or was it the towers? you can run with it either way without clarification.

Agreed though.. a total and unbiased investigation would be very nice. A completed NIST report without proven to be faulty math regarding the tower collapse would be nice. A follow up of all the leads that suggest conspiracy would be nice..
On that I'm with ya.

not going to happen though.. it's too late. The damage is done and more damage has been wrought which needs to be investigated as well. Even if 9/11 was proven as an inside job, it would only serve as a stepping stone to the knowledge of greater a calamity it has begotten. A true investigation wouldn't just end with 9/11. It would bring down a house of cards that would flutter down for a year if a TRUE investigation were possible.

I don't think a true investigation is even possible now though. With the law changes since then, protective executive orders signed over and over by our slyly corrupt presidents and the extent to which the conspiracy surely traverses the oceans.. how could a true investigation be completed? The information it would unearth would likely kickstart another calamity and then you would have to start all over again..

it's frustrating to even conjecture about the scope of it. It would still be nice to see one attempted.

b

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Alas Gen you do realize that the building was supported by the internal steel structual and the entire second half or your reply is total opinion of wishful sheeple thinking.

Are you talking about WTC1 and 2? Heh, Donny, do yourself a favor and read up and learn the true structure of the Twin Towers. Your whole initial response and this one make virtually no sense whatsoever.

The only, ONLY internal "steel structure" inside was the core. The floor trusses were not connected like I-beams or anything, nor were there any internal column skeleton like in regular buildings. There was no steel skeleton. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT of a TUBE-IN-TUBE design. So no, it would not have mattered. The core would not have been able to stand on its own for long, with the external columns missing.

reply to post by truthquest

Go ahead and say they are not rules because they are only guidelines and they don't have to be followed by law.

This is not a minor distinction. Guidelines are suggestions, rules are not suggestions.

Call them anything you want.

No, you don't get to call them anything you want. They are what they are and to imply they are not or they are something else is simply lying.

There were rules and regardless of whether they were identical its pretty much common sense they would be at least somewhat similar and its common sense also that they were not followed.

Do you really think that NFPA 921 is like "Fire Investigation for Dummies"? The publication is intended for the use of fire investigation professionals to use with appropriate professional discretion. Not following one guideline is not example of professional misconduct.

Whether what they were following were rules or guidelines doesn't make it any less incompetent, suspicious, and downright disgusting.

To say that rules and guidelines are identical in responsibility for adherence is just nonsense. Also, remember, the underlying premise to all this is the assumption that there was "molten" something or another on the site. Did ever occur to you that maybe these professionals did show up, found no evidence of molten material and therefore felt no reason to pursue the cause of something that never happened?

reply to post by Bspiracy


Yeah...it really is a massive problem and to tackle it would require something equally massive. Something must be done though or else by our lack of action we give such folks free reign to do whatever they want as long as they make it difficult for us to call them out on it afterwards.

That is what has been done. Once this investigation starts who knows where it will go but it needs to go there and it needs to be open to public scrutiny the ENTIRE WAY.

I do not care what may happen because of it. For far too long we Americans have allowed horrible acts to be maintained in our name because of our ignorance and acquiescence due to our comfortable lifestyles.

We cannot shy away from our responsibility simply because that responsibility has grown and grown due to our laziness. If we do not tackle it now, it will be worse next time and the next time could very possibly be in our lifetimes.

Originally posted by HeinousOne
reply to post by Bspiracy

 

Yeah...it really is a massive problem and to tackle it would require something equally massive. Something must be done though or else by our lack of action we give such folks free reign to do whatever they want as long as they make it difficult for us to call them out on it afterwards.

That is what has been done. Once this investigation starts who knows where it will go but it needs to go there and it needs to be open to public scrutiny the ENTIRE WAY.

I do not care what may happen because of it. For far too long we Americans have allowed horrible acts to be maintained in our name because of our ignorance and acquiescence due to our comfortable lifestyles.

We cannot shy away from our responsibility simply because that responsibility has grown and grown due to our laziness. If we do not tackle it now, it will be worse next time and the next time could very possibly be in our lifetimes.

Sounds alot like "the accused will have a fair trial followed immeadiately by the execution".

One reason (among many) that the truth movement will never get its "investigation" is because of rhetoric like this. Why would anyone ever even consider conducting any kind of investigation if they firmly believed that the group calling for the investigation is only going to be satisfied with one outcome? What a complete waste of time, money and political energy.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by HeinousOne
reply to post by Bspiracy

 

Yeah...it really is a massive problem and to tackle it would require something equally massive. Something must be done though or else by our lack of action we give such folks free reign to do whatever they want as long as they make it difficult for us to call them out on it afterwards.

That is what has been done. Once this investigation starts who knows where it will go but it needs to go there and it needs to be open to public scrutiny the ENTIRE WAY.

I do not care what may happen because of it. For far too long we Americans have allowed horrible acts to be maintained in our name because of our ignorance and acquiescence due to our comfortable lifestyles.

We cannot shy away from our responsibility simply because that responsibility has grown and grown due to our laziness. If we do not tackle it now, it will be worse next time and the next time could very possibly be in our lifetimes.

Sounds alot like "the accused will have a fair trial followed immeadiately by the execution".

One reason (among many) that the truth movement will never get its "investigation" is because of rhetoric like this. Why would anyone ever even consider conducting any kind of investigation if they firmly believed that the group calling for the investigation is only going to be satisfied with one outcome? What a complete waste of time, money and political energy.

You put an awful lot into my statement that wasn't there. I see why some of these people believe you are here only to cause trouble and argue.

I have alot of questions and I would like to see an actual investigation take place. I have my beliefs right now but they differ from my beliefs a couple years ago. My beliefs can change again should all these looming questions that firefighters, professionals, scientists and even people that lost loved ones that day are asking be responded to properly. Why don't those people deserve an actual investigation?

You say "Why would anyone ever consider conducting any kind of investigation if they firmly believed that the group calling for such is only going to be satisfied with one outcome". In that case why do we have investigations at all. I would say the majority of investigations that happen would fall under that line of thinking.

So you wish for rule of law to be removed from the United States?

[edit on 4-3-2010 by HeinousOne]

reply to post by hooper


Standard procedures are more important than the law in determining how suspiciously the investigation was conducted. The reason for that is that while firefighters generally do know standard procedure such as "don't destroy any evidence until the investigation is complete" like the back of their hand, they really do not know the laws. How could they? There are too many laws to remember even if they were not written in legalese.

Do you or do you not believe the referenced guidebook is the same type of procedures that the investigators on 9/11 were normally following except in that case?

I believe that the book offers a fair assessment of what standard procedures would be. I'm sure there are differences from investigations across the country, but in a state like New York you can be pretty sure its very organized and also that procedures are held up as extremely important in any major fire event in the state, and those procedures are considered vital to each of the investigators.

If there were major deviations in procedure for the 9/11 investigation causing a substandard investigation that would fail to find any explosives even if they were used, would that or would that not be suspicious?

[edit on 4-3-2010 by truthquest]

reply to post by truthquest


I guess the question that really should be asked is why there would be a fire investigation at all.

I mean it is not your typical situation where you get a call in the middle of the night that someone in the neighborhood smells smoke and you arrive on the scene to find a house completely involved. Of course after that you would definetly want to conduct an investigation. However, that wasn't quite the case here.

I am trying to imagine someone from the NYFD walking around taking samples on 9/12 and being asked what he was doing and having to tell someone he was investigating trying to find out what started the fire.

reply to post by Donny 4 million
"Does this mean you would Pull It for Larry if he ordered you to" Had to laugh at that one Donny.. "Pull It for Larry" would be a good,(alternative) title for a film on WT7

reply to post by GoodOlDave


It still amazes me, how many people actually believe in what N.I.S.T. and the American government have " Theorised " on what the events were on that day.
YOU use the internet.
Most people who believe this story are the ones who DONT.
They only saw what happened on the day and have seen the odd documentary on TV.
I can understand them, because they haven`t had the chance to study the vast amount of information on the internet .
In fact I and many thousands of others all came late to this information and to some, it takes some studying.
But i`m sorry.
The likes of you and anyone else who has studied ALL or even just a small amount of what is on the internet, makes me sad because if you can`t see anything wrong with this TOTALLY FLOORED report, then you must be wearing blinkers.
I`ve been a builder for 40 years and buildings dont collapse in the way those three did !
Get some cctv footage of a plane ( not a white blob ) hitting the Pentagon and i may give that one some thought but to be honest thats not going to happen is it?
Because it seems my newsagent on the corner has got more cameras than the Pentagon !

Originally posted by hooper


I am trying to imagine someone from the NYFD walking around taking samples on 9/12 and being asked what he was doing and having to tell someone he was investigating trying to find out what started the fire.

You couldn't understand that?

Buildings that were made to with stand multiple plane hits.

Steel frame buildings never falling from fire before.

Structures falling at gravity speed.

And you would find that hard to imagine?

Originally posted by Sean48
Buildings that were made to with stand multiple plane hits.

"Truther" lie, the buildings were not designed to stand multiple plane hits - which designer claimed that? Or is it just something you made up!

Steel frame buildings never falling from fire before.

How many other steel frame buildings had a 767 crash into it?

Structures falling at gravity speed.

Neither WTC1 or 2 fell at free fall speed, WTC7 may have for a short time.

So just more lies from a "truther"!

reply to post by dereks


Why do you bother .

Even the OS side shuns your trolling .

Originally posted by Sean48
Why didn't the Most Horrific Day have called for the most Intensive
Investigation ever in US history.

Was this charlatan part of the investigation team? Did this fake take part in any of the analysis or forensic examinations? Was this liar part of anythin related to the 9/11 investigations?

Unless he was, he has absolutely *no* business saying things he has no knowledge about.

His hilarious "Firefighters for 9/11" website is a step above Romper Room and has about as much intellectual rigor.

He can cite till the cows whatever procedures he wants, but if he was not there as a participant in the analysis and investigation, he needs to shut up or risk making an even bigger fool out of himself - which would be difficult, no doubt, but it sure looks like he is trying hard.

I hope you , and others who make a mockery of their deaths van sleep well.

I sleep like a baby, thank you very much. Not only because I have one heck of a mattress but also because you Truthers crack me up so much I am so tired from laughing at your indignant holier-than-thou prevaricating and your huffy-and-puffy anger at having your garbage thrown right back at you.

One thing that is a mystery to me is the blast damage done in the lobby at WTC1. There are the broken tiles and windows as reported, and also there is soot, so some kind of flame or burn is also involved. To blow out the windows and demolish the tiles means there also has to be a blast or shockwave event. This could not have come from a kerosene flame reaching down from the 94th floor, all that there would be is flame, if at all possble. Any shockwave in front of a flame should have been dissapated nearer the point of ignition ie, the 94th floor. This makes me think that the only way a blast effect in the lobby could have been caused by kerosene, is that unburnt fuel was ignited somehow near or at the lobby level, and that it was the ignition of the kerosene at that point that created a blast, or shockwave, enough to cause the blast damage as reported. I have difficulty seeing that scenario reported anywhere.

Originally posted by GenRadek
I looked into his website and it is nothing more than a rehash of the same old 9/11 truther nonsense that can be found across the world wide web word for word. Same old videos, same old junk, same old lies and twists and misinfo and disinfo.

I guess you didnt know but if you take a few thousand people at random, you will always get a few who get suckered in to conspiracies or such. Of the millions of engineers a few hundred is a just small fraction. Of the thousands of firefighters, there will ALWAYS be a few who are just as easily suckered into the nonsense. No surprises really.

boooo!!!
xeeatwelve.net

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Dogdish
Read this:
What Melted Cars - Rense

Oh dear, the dreaded "beam weapons from space destroyed the WTC towers" reappears!

Just when you thought the "truthers" had gotten as silly as they could, they bring the beam weapons back up!

So; you ask for proof of the molten metal and I give you a video of steel being cut in the tower just prior to collapse, and a link to an ATS thread showing pictures of the melted cars.

You insinuate that I hadn't even read the thread I provided, as you have already proclaimed the melted cars "debunked", and that they had been moved to that area.

I reply with proof that they had, in fact, NOT been 'moved there', and you come back with "beam weapons from space". Implying that this was my point. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

I think the "Trusters" are being more than silly, here. I think you are very obviously trying to hide from the truth.

Originally posted by Dogdish
So; you ask for proof of the molten metal and I give you a video of steel being cut in the tower just prior to collapse

Except you have not given any video of steel being cut in the tower prior to collapse....

and a link to an ATS thread showing pictures of the melted cars.

Not melted, burnt...

I reply with proof that they had, in fact, NOT been 'moved there',

No you did not actually, and they were moved there...

and you come back with "beam weapons from space". Implying that this was my point.

Well, you post a link to a website that has a link to the claim beam weapons were used.... why post the link if you did not want the beam weapons mentioned?

I think you are very obviously trying to hide from the truth.

except once again you are the avoiding the truth, claiming beam weapons were used...

Originally posted by Dogdish
I reply with proof that they had, in fact, NOT been 'moved there', and you come back with "beam weapons from space". Implying that this was my point. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Not only have I never once mentioned beam weapons from space, none of the threads I have been on discuss such things. For some reason, Dereks has still tossed this out in every single thread and most recently as a response to me about the criminality of purposely demolishing a building and lying about it. In fact, I have yet to see him even respond to anyone who has actually brought up beam weapons from space. This constant rambling about such nonsense has finally bought him his ignore ticket.