History in the Remaking A temple complex in Turkey that predates even the pyramids is rewriting the

Looks like the consensus evolutionary view is being challenged by the evidence.

This theory reverses a standard chronology of human origins, in which primitive man went through a "Neolithic revolution" 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. In the old model, shepherds and farmers appeared first, and then created pottery, villages, cities, specialized labor, kings, writing, art, and—somewhere on the way to the airplane—organized religion. As far back as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, thinkers have argued that the social compact of cities came first, and only then the "high" religions with their great temples, a paradigm still taught in American high schools.

Religion now appears so early in civilized life—earlier than civilized life, if Schmidt is correct—that some think it may be less a product of culture than a cause of it, less a revelation than a genetic inheritance. The archeologist Jacques Cauvin once posited that "the beginning of the gods was the beginning of agriculture," and Göbekli may prove his case.

www.newsweek.com...

And the last paragraph sounds like a flood! The entire complex was buried quickly...

[edit on 2/24/2010 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


God sent the flood to wipe out the Nephlim (Giant offspring of the Watchers) The Watchers were captured just before and locked up in hell by the Arch Angels. This could be one of their home bases like Atlantis that the Angels had fun destroying. Many others are at the sea floor with no historical record.

The Great Giza Pyramids were build around 9,500 B.C. by the Watchers and their Nephilm sons. Egyptians tired to copy them and failed to achieve the same quality of structure, There are also no tombs in the Great Giza Pyramids unlike the Egyptian built ones.

The pyramids hold the very forbidden science that God did not want us to have at that time. They are also a warning to man about a pole shift in 2012. The Watchers build the pyramids in such a way that God could not destroy without ruining the ecosystem of earth.

Many scientist have lied to us over and over to hide the truth, the Arabs are the worst because they are to egotistic and do not want to admit they did not build the Great Pyramids.

Here is one example of the truth coming out but see how they try to put doubt in there at the end or even dismiss it.

www.livescience.com...( LiveScience.com+History)

I thought this'd be about Baalbek and it's about the Tepe's!

These must be how the Sumerians learned about the Precession of the Equinoxes.

They did succeed to calculate the sphere of the Earth (finding the fractional points between the Equator and the Pole and measuring the distance)!

Do you think they were there long enough to calculate that it took 2,160 years for the Earth to move through each Zodiacal ‘house’ and thus 25,920 years to complete the cycle through all 12 (also the period it takes the solar system to complete its journey around its galactic center)?

Yeah but that is definately L O N G before the Pyramids (any of them)!




[edit on 2010/2/24 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

No.
It doesn't sound like "the" flood.

Whatever mysterious rituals were conducted in the temples, they ended abruptly before 8000 B.C., when the entire site was buried, deliberately and all at once, Schmidt believes. The temples had been in decline for a thousand years—later circles are less than half the size of the early ones, indicating a lack of resources or motivation among the worshipers. This "clear digression" followed by a sudden burial marks "the end of a very strange culture," Schmidt says.

www.newsweek.com...

Schmidt and I descend a ladder to the floor of the dig, where the ancient dust is banked against the T-stones. He continues: “The really strange thing is that in 8,000BC, during the shift to agriculture, Gobekli Tepe was buried. I mean deliberately – not in a mudslide. For some reason the hunters, or the ex-hunters, decided to entomb the entire site in soil. The earth we are removing from the stones was put here by man himself: all these hills are artificial.”

www.forteantimes.com...

Originally posted by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
Yeah but that is definately L O N G before the Pyramids (any of them)!

Long before the era of the Egyptian pyramids, but not before the Sphinx, which some fringe anthropologists have calculated possibly exceeds 10,000 years in age.

See, there is no Egyptian record of who built the Sphinx. What we know from ancient Egyptian records is that the Sphinx was already ancient before the advent of Egyptian Pharaonic civilization. The pharaohs would, occasionally, call for the Sphinx to be repaired and repainted, out of respect for whomever originally built it; but no pharaoh can take credit for building the thing.

Some of the most convincing evidence of the true age of the Sphinx is it's very obvious erosion by water. Wind erosion is one thing, but it's characterized by lateral erosion. The Sphinx, on the other hand, shows abundant evidence of vertical erosion, as from exposure to rain over the millennia.

Thing is, North Africa is not known for its rainy seasons — even in the time of the Pharaonic dynasties, North Africa was largely a desert. Add to that the fact that the Sphinx was buried up to its neck in sand for thousands of years, and it kind of makes you wonder how its body became so heavily eroded by RAIN.

Well. Obviously, the Sphinx was built in an age when North Africa had a considerably wetter climate — perhaps even a lush tropical climate. The Sphinx weathered in that rainy climate for a few millennia before North Africa went dry, burying the Sphinx in sand up to its earlobes.

Which means the Sphinx would have to be on the order of 10,000 years old or older.

Who built the Sphinx is anyone's guess. But it's apparent that they already had a spiritual civilization — one that revered animals as gods, perhaps.

— Doc Velocity

As for the deliberate burial of the sites, that's a poser. However, there are only a few known reasons for burying things.

1.) To protect the sites. This makes sense if the original builders found themselves under invasion from another culture. They might indeed bury their religious sites to protect them from destruction at the hands of "unbelievers."

2.) To erase the sites from history. This is usually what invaders do — they rush in, trying to damage and destroy and erase whatever icons the defeated believers held sacred. It's a power grab, of course, driving the believers underground, so the invaders can erect whatever new religious icons and sites they see fit.

We see this same sort of historical revision all around the world to this very day — whether it's secularists demanding the removal of the Ten Commandments from state property or black activists demanding the removal of the Confederate stars and bars from state flags. It's no different than the jealous Pharaohs of Egypt chiseling away the faces of their predecessors from stone monuments. It's historical revisionism.

I'm inclined to think it's the former reason, they buried the sites to protect them from invaders.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 2/25/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by RedBird (from the other thread)
I appreciate Doc Velocity's enthusiasm, but I wish he'd be a bit less aggressively confrontational with his posts.

Honey, you don't even know what "aggressively confrontational" means. Try sitting in on a conference of anthropologists discussing the origins of civilization sometime. THOSE GUYS are aggressively confrontational. Try discussing Egyptology with Zahi Hawass, Egypt's Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities — THAT GUY is aggressively confrontational.

You would never guess it from their meek television personas, but those guys are first-class ass holes. I am nothing by comparison.

Originally posted by RedBird (from the other thread)
You can't have social organization OR complex stone construction without first attaining agricultural surplus. Without agricultural surplus, there can be no specialists - everyone in a clan/society must be involved in the production of food in order for the society to survive.

I disagree. I don't believe that megalithic building is a leisure activity. I don't believe it's something you do when your rice stores are full and everybody is well-fed and happy and has time to specialize.

I think megalithic building was inspired, as in inspired from beyond. That's where our greatest architecture and art and music and everything else originates — in SPIRIT and in recognition of spirit.

That's why people crash jets into buildings... NOT as an experiment in thermodynamics and structural physics, but as a blow against the spirit, right?

Our greatest structures aren't so much utilitarian as they are aesthetic, they are inspired works. That's why we go to great trouble and expense to make our structures beautiful, above and beyond functional.

Everything about an aspiring civilization is spiritual and miraculous work, not mundane and tedious and monotonous work, as the secularists would have us believe.

And that's why I accept the OP as a confirmation that spirit precedes civilization.

— Doc Velocity

Is this the site where they found all the stone circles, eerily similar to Stonehenge, and the circles Basque regions?

There also a great many copper tools in these sites?

reply to post by Doc Velocity


These 'gods' were not the benevolent beings they have painted themselves as having been. Yes they taught early man agriculture, metalwork and alloy making etc, but they did this to create socities that would flourish so that they would have many worshippers.

Eventually humans got tired of the rape, the human sacrifices and the half-breeds that would eat their children and they revolted. They killed the half-breeds and buried them in their temples. Someone else took care of the 'gods'.

Sites like this one will be discovered all over the North African and Middle-East Region. Huge, ancient and always deliberately covered-up.

As an aside; these 'gods' realised that they couldnt get the worship that they need to survive from humanity through direct oppression. So they went back to the drawingboard and came up with less direct means. These are not the sort of beings who do good things for good reasons; they hate us and see no significant difference between us and animals. And they mock us and the government leaders that worship them as fools.

reply to post by Sky watcher


You'll need to actually get some evidence of that being true if you expect anyone to believe it.

Originally posted by kwatron
These 'gods' were not the benevolent beings they have painted themselves as having been. Yes they taught early man agriculture, metalwork and alloy making etc...

You make great points, and, yes, I'm wide open to the notion that prehistoric super-civilizations existed.

Let's clear this away first: Prehistoric does not mean primitive or unsophisticated. There's abundant evidence — collecting dust in museum basements and university storehouses — that something approaching a super civilization existed here on Earth in ancient times.

There's too much evidence, in fact, that somebody came in here and mined this planet. I'm not speaking metaphorically, either. From the extensive prehistoric copper mining around the Great Lakes to the prehistoric coal and uranium mining in the Colorado Rockies, it's obvious that somebody came into the North American Continent with a need for copper and gold and coal and uranium and god only knows what else, and they mined it deep (talk about 800 feet deep, which is extraordinarily deep for primitive man to dig) and they mined it in prehistoric times.

Our good friend (not) "Jim Brandon" said that there were some coal miners out West who broke into an existing tunnel at a depth of around 800 feet. It was an old mine they had discovered, but really old... The exposed coal showed signs of oxidization, meaning that it had been worked with advanced mining methods — venting air through the mine.

It had been mined in the ancient past, 800 feet down, leaving no topside disturbance. Questions abound.

Naturally

Millions of pounds of copper were taken out of the Great Lakes area in the dim past, but there isn't enough recovered copper in Native America to match that quantity.
I know that's a dead-end argument, trying to prove who mined what and where in the hell did they take it?

I know this... There's not enough copper trinkets and copper axes and copper jewelry and all that other coppery crap in all the Museums and Reservation gift shops in North America to account for the millions of pounds of copper missing from the Lake Superior region, specifically.

Maybe they took it back across the ice to Scandinavia and peddled it across Europe in the Copper Age?

Or maybe they smelted the ore, cast a few hundred million pounds of copper ingots, shuttled their coppery payload up to the mothership and she departed for the Kessel Run.

Anybody remember the Kessel Run?

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Please show us this evidence for a super-civilisation. I've not seen any, and I'm pretty sure no one else on Earth has, either. It's a common fad in the new-age community to think that the 'ancients' were more intelligent or capable than us modern folks, or in touch with aliens or ghosts or atlanteans or bigfoot, but is's a complete fallacy born out of wanting to believe instead of wanting to know.

reply to post by kwatron


Thats an interesting story...what childrens book did that come from.

Don't spout this stuff without some academic non- religious biased BS to back it up.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Pax et Intellectus]

Interesting find. These sorts of things always fascinate me because it just proves the theory that time erases history. While I believe that we have already advanced to the same or a higher level of technology and culture as humans in the distant past, we would be hard pressed to find evidence of it. Erosion and decay do a pretty good job of hiding that.

From the allegorical evidence I have seen (in various myths, etc.) I have a theory that the earth has seen a modern style civilization of humans as far back at 25,000 years ago. There was, as is common with humans, some bad fighting and perhaps some natural disasters and that culture was devestated, leaving us with a genetic bottleneck (which has been surmised through genetics) of about 100K humans on the planet. These humans did not know how to tend to what was left of the civilization they had grown up with. They tried to survive in the best way they could, reverting back to a stone aged society. The historical record decayed and humans were left to ponder about the history of their great great great grandparents.

If you can imagine a future in which by some means, we as humans suffer a great plague or ice age. Our society crumbles and most of our great monoliths fall into ruin.. What would be left? Our stone buildings, perhaps. The Lincoln Memorial would likely be interpreted as a temple to a god of some sort. But our distant ancestors would not necessarily be able to understand that they had "been there" before.

Anyway, it's all just guess work, really. Almost impossible to provd, but a great thing to ponder.

reply to post by kwatron


When you read the old testament, the god of Abraham didn't seem like such a nice guy. The first commandment, "I am a jealous god" doesn't exactly sound like an omnipotent god. Most of the other tales of the gods make them sound like they had a fickle attitude towards the human race at best.

Then again, all the tales of the gods could be nothing more than tales around the fire turned into ways to manipulate the masses.

There is also the possibility that these gods are plasma life forms who share our biosphere of the Earth with us, and can communicate with us when desired. The possibilities are very broad. It very well could be that they communicated with us much more freely in the past, but our technological advancements had perhaps intimidated them.

The speculative possibilities are endless.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Do you have links to the evidence where this mining in North America took place?

I haven't seen any real evidence of a super civilization, but certainly evidence that there were ancient civilization of which we have yet to discover, but little evidence that any of them ever successfully harnessed electricity to an advanced degree, or other advanced technology.

I don't think it is all that far fetched to think that our galaxy is home to other advanced species far beyond us, who have conquered space travel and visited our planet. There is evidence of this, tales of various indigenous peoples about visitors from the stars.

The DNA evidence does show that we were almost wiped out as a species, about 70,000 years ago if I remember the dates right.

My dog thinks I'm god every time I light a match. You have to put religious writings in the context of their time. Was there a great flood? No doubt. Did god cause it to punish man? I don't think so. That was just the best explanation a 5000 year old dude could come up with.

www.nationalgeographic.com...

While I seriously doubt that this particular spot is THE spot from which all else emerged, I do think that there were higher civilizations existing at that time around the world that were destroyed by the Younger Dryas climate change.

Furthermore, I think the evidence is building that that event was caused by a comet hitting the Luarentide ice sheet, releasing hundreds, if not thousands of cubic miles of fresh water into the Atlantic. If you look at the sea floor on GoogleEarth, you can see where the water flows were, the marks are still there.Most evidence of high culture would have been lost in the floods and extreme weather caused by that event.

Here's a summary of pros and cons on the subject:

www.pbs.org...

One thing I DO know for sure is that the picture of our early beginnings is definitely incomplete and mostly inaccurate; far too many refuse to believe that high civilizations can disappear globally due to outside events, it's too scary for them. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, by "high" I don't mean spaceships and teleporters, I mean high for that period, which is much higher than merely a bunch of hunter-gatherers, high as in capable of building the Sphinx and other monumental architecture.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


This was posted almost a year ago here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I added this video

And there is a second video (a little longer) posted at that link as well.


[edit on 25-2-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by davesidious


You want some evidence of mankind for the first time in our recorded history, that we are actually going to observe and measure if this is true or not...


The Pyramids At Giza and 2012

That was just a little something I discovered a little while ago, and to date I've had one person say it aint so... our follow ATS dedunker of everything Phage... And six people, one friend and now 5 outside of ATS sources that wrote me back saying its mathematically possible.

On Dec 3, 2012 there will be a three planet convergence in the early morning hours over Giza, (PST), that mathematically appears to match the layout for the pyramids of Giza... Here's where it gets interesting... That convergence only happens once every 2737 years... and only matches the pyramid layout every 5th cycle... However, it appears, the last time it happened 13,685 years ago... the progression of the equinox did not allow Mercury to be viewed from Giza... Yet if you go another 5 cycles, it appears that planet convergence could've been seen from Giza,… or to state that another way… 10 cycles ago appears to be the only time they could have seen that full planet convergence, and then because of it… they decided to build those pyramids in honor of that convergence…. That took place 27,370 years ago... So that means, on Dec 3, 2012 for the first time mankind will be able to physically observe, calculate and then physically compare that planet Convergence to the Pyramids at Giza… Where for the first time that I’m aware, mankind will then be able finally solve a very ancient mystery… Now, if it turns out the pyramids were created over 25,000 years ago... would that be enough evidence to convince you there was an advanced civilization on this planet many moons ago???


--Charles Marcello