Important Issue Here, and it Involves All of US...MIND POWER.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Huh? Different concepts altogether

Originally posted by tgidkp

you may not find it convincing, but it is important for people to at least be aware that alternative viewpoints can be substantiated.

I agree with that concept and I'm certain that many of the posters here are indeed aware that alternate viewpoints can be substantiated. However, the issue for me is whether such concepts can stand up to scrutiny and survive beyond reliance on conjecture, parable and supposition. I must admit, I did find it a far more intriguing read than the typically weak metaphysical dreck that has so far dominated this thread.

Originally posted by np6888
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Huh?

My sentiments exactly. I don't really see the point you're making. There's abnormalities at the quantum level? I am aware of that. So what?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

The truth is large; no man hath seen the whole;
Larger than words; it brooks not the control
Of argument and of distinctions nice;
No age or creed can hold it, no device
Of speech or language; ay, no syllogism;
Truth is the sun, and reason is the prism
You lift before it; whence the light is thrown
In various colors; each man takes his own.
If this man takes the red as you the blue,
Is yours the whole? and is his truth not true?
Spirit is truth, howe’er the colors fall;
The fact comes back to spirit, after all.

Samuel Valentine Cole


You know.... some of you need to read and understand Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


because undifferentiated consciousness does not behave linearly, experiments in the science of consciousness will be difficult to carry out. for the time being, conjecture and logic are our only known tools.

i am of the opinion that psycho-nautical explorers will have to go "out there" into the abyss and bring something back for us to study as evidence. in other words, i am not sure that it is possible to prove such things in any empirically sensible way.

consciousness studies will only be verified by what it is able to produce. and only those that are able to rearrange their mindset appropriately will be able to carry out the research. but, as with any technology, it will be for the benefit of all.

reply to post by tgidkp


Well if anyone wants to see real consciousness mind energy in action -- just watch the amazing video of qigong master John Chang:

www.youtube.com...

He's for real and lights things on fire....

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by VenusOnTheHalfShell

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

You say:
"Both Emoto and Braden are very widely debunked. A simple google search will reveal much about their tomfoolery."

So, you say we should believe the debunkers and not the courageous few trying to awaken the sleepwalking sheeple and open human minds and spirits to our true potential? That is sad. Are we to also believe that the many experiments with placebos showing the power of the mind over matter are false too? That is laughable. Honestly, what you believe is your business and your right, but what I know is truth, is. That's the crux of it all.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]


[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

Emoto selects certain crystals at the expense of others and uses different solutions in water for desired effect.

As Emoto says, "the whim of the person doing the selecting certainly comes into play” and "I admit that the selection process is not strictly in accordance with the scientific method, but.."

His words.

Believe what you want though. Presumably your beliefs give you license to call others names such as "sleepwalking sheeple". Perhaps you should take a look at yourself.

Sorry if the moniker of"sleepwalking sheeple" offended you. That was not my intent. But I definitely used it to identify a group in our american society who will not open their minds to new ideas and the human spirit. If that is you, I'm sorry for you.

The fact of the matter is, if you read Emoto's or Braden's books, clearly show experiments using the human mind to affect outcome work absolutely to some degree. That is a fact. Also, placebo experiments show the same thing, something you avoided addressing.

It's a shame that some people refuse to grow and will themselves into a same old container they find comfort in. The good thing is that the minority believers overcome the majority non-believers as light always overcomes darkness.

reply to post by drew hempel


this is a very good example.

this man can produce fire, yes? well, if he tries to explain to you how he is able to do this, he will likely have to resort to processes which are not emperically testable (such as a "conscious focus" of "energy").

nevertheless, this psychonaut has gone out and brought back FIRE!

the science will be proven only by what it is able to produce.

Here's what I do know - In the field of psychology, we have a keen interest in dissociative disorders and somatoform disorders. Why is that you ask? Well, both of these disorders show real effects on people and their bodies, but not BIOLOGICALLY-INDUCED effects. Now, how on earth are these symptoms actually really showing up if we cannot track their biological basis?

Well, we have conversion disorder which involves the loss of some physical functioning when that person shows no biological reasons for having them. My professor used the example of a blind man once. The man could not see and they could not figure out why. Through therapy, it was discovered he walked in and found his wife with another man. Subconsciously, this man's way of acting ignorant about the situation was to "not see" it, and it worked. There are several other examples of paralysis, pain, ect.

Systemized dissociative amnesia can occur when someone simply cannot remember an event for the life of them. It is honestly not there, "never happened." This usually results after a traumatic event. Several people who experience the death of a close family member will honestly blank and forget they have a family member. Brain activity backs these thoughts when patients are asked under imaging, ect. Why does this occur? Repression of emotions. They inherently "want" to forget it, so they actually DO.

There are several other dissociative disorders and somatoform disorders, but having under 20 posts prevents me from going "in-depth." I want to reiterate, there are no biological signs or symptoms as to how these things can be occuring. There is real pain that cannot understood by doctors - blindness when they have the ability to see, paralysis when they have the ability to walk, ect. Many times, these symptoms have also gone away when these people proceeded to seek therapy. Therapy can usually uncover those "masked" thoughts and bring them to the surface. This in turn allows the client to regain the ability they once had impaired. Sometimes, as with any disorder, these symptoms persist nonetheless even after therapy in some patients.

Now, what does all this mean? Simple - These people have somehow programmed their thoughts to have these symptoms or feelings. It usually takes a very powerful or traumatic event because these events cut DEEP into our thoughts and allow us to change things. Hell, I had a broken leg I could barely walk on in basic training in 2005, but I overheard my drill sergeant's saying I was going to have to repeat basic training all over again because I wouldn't be able to past my last run test. Well, I got pissed at hearing them say that. I was fuming and kept saying, "I will prove these assholes wrong" in my head. That next day, I felt no pain....none. My Dr. said my X-Rays were still psitive and he shouldn't let me go out there, but I told him to write in his documents that I refused to go on profile (which you can do). Obviously over the internet anyone can make a story up, but you'll have to take my word on it (or not).

Either way, the info on the disorders can be found in the DSM-IV (TR), the official mental disorder handbook used by all psychologists when diagnosing their patients. I am not here to make you believe me, but this is as credible evidence as you can get. If you still don't believe, I cannot change that. I do feel the need to supply this information though. I have been wrong (as we all have), and it took me years to realize being wrong means learning something new. I know, that's more "positive thought"

(I wrote this fast and have to be up early, so please excuse any spelling/grammar errors)




[edit on 21-2-2010 by Subconsciously Correct]

reply to post by VenusOnTheHalfShell

Astronomers argue that the galactic equator is an entirely arbitrary line, and can never be precisely determined because it is impossible to say exactly where the Milky Way begins or ends. Jenkins claims he drew his conclusions about the location of the galactic equator from observations taken at above 11,000 feet, which is higher than any of the Maya lived. Furthermore, the precessional alignment of the Sun with any single point is not exclusive to a specific year, but takes place over a 36-year period, corresponding to its diameter. Jenkins himself notes that, even given his determined location for the line of the galactic equator, its most precise convergence with the centre of the Sun already occurred in 1998.

Emoto is reputable for what? Do you even know what he does for a living? He sells books. . . He writes what you want to read so you will buy his books. He is not a scientist and cannot and will not allow anyone the details of his work. . . how is that reputable?

This thread is not about charlatains anyways. Its a discussion about your ability to effect reality with nothing more than concsiousness. Emoto has done nothing to further the pro stance on this subject.

My argument is that just hoping and believing in something does not make it happen. If you want something you can focus on it and achieve it through actions.

Our ancestors also believed that the earth was flat. . . they were wrong, they believed the earth was the center of the universe, they were wrong. In the newtonian era free will was taken away everything is predictable, he was wrong, our ancestors believed that our galaxy was everything there was, they were wrong.

While there is value and knowledge to be passed down from our ancestors not all of it is right. Our ancestors should be revered and respected, but to blindly follow any one including our ancestors is foolish.

The entire expance of the Mayan culture was 4000 years. None of them coincided with the alignment you harold. How can you base any prediction based on a calander. . . or someones interpratation of it. Or for that matter assume that the mayans (who never experienced this alignment) could accurately predict the the events of that date?

Sorry to go so far off topic but i have to defend my BS.

For those of you interested in the idea of a universal consciousness and concsiousness' effects on the world around you here is a great article and video by Stephen L. Thaler.

Google Video Link

and the paper

www.imagination-engines.com...

great watch and read

reply to post by tgidkp


This is a thread I started wherein I give a "scientific model" for how to produce fire through the third eye. Enjoy:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To go along the lines of my last post, how do you explain hypnosis? Hypnosis has shown drastic changes in individuals, just by tapping into the subconscious and giving it suggestions. How does the power of mind not work if thoughts do in fact create opportunity through processes such as hypnosis?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Subconsciously Correct]

reply to post by Subconsciously Correct


these disorders seem to be the result of "lower" (or somatic) mind, rather than the higher analytical and spiritual functions.

studying these disorders can help us understand how the mind works, but does not really tell us much about our transcendental nature.

thanks for your post! welcome to ATS!

reply to post by constantwonder



I don't agree with your conclusions on the consciousness affecting reality at all. Many have healed themselves through the use of their minds. Placebo experiments are real and show that what you believe matters more than substance.

The Mayans were so advanced they created a calendar so exact as to not be duplicated or understood until the advent of the computer.

Jenkins is only one opinion. There are others that clearly differ. Braden sites experiments where concentrated thoughts affect the result. Paranormal researchers at Stanford University have shown this. Noetic science shows this to be true too.

You believe what you want as I will. I'm quite content knowing what I know, doing what I do, and contributing to the spiritual growth of our planet and species. Good luck to you.

It seems to me that at this point this debate has spun out; it hass become so convoluted that we're not all on the same page in terms of what we are even talking about anymore. I think we need to frame it a little better, so I'm going to try to do that now. I submit that these are the types of powers of the mind that have been discussed thus far(I will remain objective and only introduce the types):

Type 1) Some people seem to be talking about or at least refering to in passing a totally noncontroversial well understood power of thought. That is that mental intention preceeds action. I had to think about writing this, and then I wrote it. My intention preceeded my action, and nothing took place that is controversial or particularily difficult to explain. I would consider the example given of a man becoming aroused when thinking of a pretty woman also in this category. This category is characterized by direct causal links between intention/thought and physical action. Physical action is taken in the conventional way, through the same kind of normal assertion of will as everyone does every day.

Type 2) These are instances in which intention/thought preceeds a physiological response, but in a slightly more unconventional way than normal exertion of will like type 1. This type includes things like the placebo effect, the remarkable feats of endurance and tolerance demonstrated by experts of mental diciplines(meditation, monks), and I would suggest that the peculiar disorders noted by the psychologist above also fall into this catagory. So this type is characterized by physiological effects - confined to the individual's body - which are in response to some pronounced mental state. Perhaps the arousal example given in type one could be better located half way between types one and two. These are instances of a mental phenomenon translating into a physiogical phenomenon, but not in the conventional day to day exertion of normal will sort of way.

Type 3) This is the type to do with the metaphysical interpretation of the measurement problem (The measurement problem in quantum mechanics is the unresolved problem of how (or if) wavefunction collapse occurs. The inability to observe this process directly has given rise to different interpretations of quantum mechanics, and poses a key set of questions that each interpretation must answer. The wavefunction in quantum mechanics evolves according to the Schrödinger equation into a linear superposition of different states, but actual measurements always find the physical system in a definite state. Any future evolution is based on the state the system was discovered to be in when the measurement was made, meaning that the measurement "did something" to the process under examination. Whatever that "something" may be does not appear to be explained by the basic theory.) discussed previously. This type is the assertion that the act of observation creates reality. This is what is discussed in What the Bleep Do We Know? This type is characterized by given consciousness/awareness the most important position in ones worldview; the position of literal creator of reality. The implication of this is that the substance of reality does not exist objectively and only exists in the presence of an observer.

Type 4) This type seems to synonymous with the "Law of Attraction." (The Law of Attraction argues that thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) can affect things outside the head, not just through motivation, but by other means. The Law of Attraction says that which is like unto itself is drawn. Essentially, "if you really want something and truly believe it's possible, you'll get it", but putting a lot of attention and thought onto something you don't want means you'll probably get that too). This type suggests powers of the mind which have yet to be identified within the materialist paradigm of western science. This type involves a nebulous connection between cause and effect(as opposed to type 5), and suggests that the universe itself is directed at a fairly large scale by the thoughts/intentions/wishes of an individual.

Type 5) This type is best described as a mix of type 2 and type 4, and is accurately described as psychic powers in the most well known sense. This type describes to purported abilities of its practitioners to light things on fire with their minds, read other peoples minds, perform successful remote viewings, precognition, telekinesis, telepathy, and effect the structure of ice crystals. That list is not exhaustive. This type is characterized by an ability to directly exert an effect on physical reality through shear force of will, and cause effects which can be detected but not explained by conventional western physical sciences. This type is different from type 2 in that its effects extent beyond the body and defy explanation by mainstream physics. This type differs from type 4 in that its effects are more direct, immediate, and limited in scope.

reply to post by drew hempel


i must shyly admit that i have been following your blog for several weeks now....i found it from a google search on some of the things you were saying in the recent pineal gland thread.

i followed your meditation technique for "ionizing the vegas nerve" and then "directing that energy to the pineal". it was incredibly successful! i felt like Neo in the Matrix getting the plug pulled on my reality socket. although i still question the exact method of activation, and i feel your descriptions were somewhat vague, it was enough for me to have success. i need to explore it more.

i really have a passion for the topics you discuss and i am grateful for the leads you have produced. keep the info coming!

My brothers.
Look at your comments... a lot of arguments, all based in the opinion or information of someone else.
I think it is a mistake to try learning from a scientific....
You have to learn from GREAT MASTER. The same you see in the mirror ...
I sugest you to read Richard Bach's "Ilusions".
www.amazon.com...
This is one of my favorite books. I don't know if the facts are real (is a novell) but i can asure you that is all possible.
I have 1 friend for about 30 years that has many real powers. When i am in her company, i myself can use many of my natural powers (telepaty, clarivoyance).
The most important think she has told to me, is that all the existing terrestrial humans should be just like her.
I use a simple example for picture you who are GOD: GOD is like internet. All the power and presence of internet exists in nowhere and everywhere. There is none computer named "Internet". The sum of computers, phones, etc connected to internet is INTERNET. When you are in internet it doesn't matter YOUR HARDWARE but your hardware and your software may limit your own manifestation of the internet. The same with GOD. YOU ARE GOD. ALL LIVING CREATURE IS GOD. You must activate your "internet connection" if you want all the power of internet (GOD). Satya Say Baba says "I AM GOD". A reporter ask him why he says that and he answered "I AM GOD AND YOU ARE GOD, the difference is that I KNOW THAT and YOU DON'T".
My brothers, the internet connection is in your heart, and the key is your breathing. I suggest you to stop your "information mess" and try to practice beeing in peace and love with life. You must pay attention to your inner voice.
But, before all, you must remember "YOU ARE GOD".

reply to post by tgidkp


Speaking of Neo, he got his power because he was "connected to the source." I've found out that in order to connect to the source, you need crystals. Maybe some members here can try that out?

reply to post by jinx880101


or MAYBE futile pursuits like this one are the useless distractions to keep us from the here and now...

don't get me wrong...I've seen and experienced the paranormal firsthand but there's something impish about it all; like a tease and there's no way you can get to the bottom of it