Norway Spiral : Case reopened - the anatomy of an event

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Please stop lying. It's not helping ATS one bit. All the evidence anyone has ever found points squarely to it being caused by a missile. You saying otherwise is intellectually dishonest to say the least.

All the evidence anyone has ever found points squarely to it being caused by a missile.

What a bonehead thing to say - I don't care what the true origins of this 'anomoly' end up being, but just the fact that this thread exists (and others like it do, as well) makes your entire statement 100% false.

Keep trying, though.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


If everyone adhered to critical thinking, you'd have a point. As they don't, your point is invalid. The "evidence" the non-believers put forward is mere conjecture. That is not evidence. That is guesswork.

The testimony of countless scientists has been demonstrated here. The trajectory of the spiral has been calculated to match exactly what the Russians said in their maritime navigational warning. The spirals are entirely congruent with a failing missile. There is no evidence, either in this thread, or this board, or the world, that suggests the official story is false.

And yet people are still here trotting out their stories of abject amateurish butt-delving, refusing to believe the official story for no reason other than they don't trust the Russians, or that they'd rather live in a world where strange and exotic things happen for reasons they can only imagine.

Tauristercus is the only non-believer I've seen who is sticking to actual evidence. To begin with he thought it was EISCAT and HAARP, now he accepts it's a missile, but he made some calculations (that some, including myself, have taken issue with) that shows the speed of the spiral being twice that of any known ICBM. He's performing more measurements and calculations to try to nail down his margin of error, so he has some evidence to bring to the table.

So no, my statement wasn't 100% false. It's not even 10% false. It's not even 1% false, no matter how much it seems to pain you. People not agreeing with something doesn't, by default, make that something incorrect, which is your rather bizarre (and patently absurd) position. It is your position that is 100% false, not mine.

reply to post by davesidious


You just wasted 4 paragraphs to convince me, and likely 90% of the people on this thread, of absolutely nothing.

Seems to be your MO for almost every thread I've seen you poke your head in.

Kudos to you, sir. You truly have a talent.

[edit on 2/10/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


You can't understand what I said? Wow. No wonder you spend so much time on the 2012 board

You said that the fact this thread exists means the official story is wrong. I pointed out the inherent logical fallacy in that.

reply to post by davesidious


watch the documentary holes in heaven HAARP its simple type in google search find the on that says 51 min video make some popcorn an watch it
listen to the people that helped designed and operate HAARP in what the say and ones that say it also can be used for ! go deeper in search in the scientist in question in this video! and remember what everyone been saying on this thread and others like it ! opps i forgot you dont do research and theory's er guesswork as you would call it
to back up any of you claims! as you posted no threads or cut or pasted anything here on this site to backup your claim!
so its pointless to even trying to convince you to watch this video !

and everything i say is involved with this Norway Spiral!!!! im NOT saying its a ufo message from god or a WORMHOLE it definitely science and technology

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

HAARP doesn't have the power to cause anything significant apart from heating of the ionosphere directly above it.

Please stop repeating this god-awful tripe in the Science & Technology forum, as it's sheer crackpottery you are repeating from other sites. It's nonsense. No amount of cheap YouTube videos can change the well-documented, well-understood capabilities of HAARP and EISCAT.

even if its from the mouths of the Designers and Operaters of HARRP!
of this documentary ive been posting

reply to post by Wolfenz


I'm not going to watch a documentary to learn about HAARP. I've read about its equipment and the physics behind it. I've read about the experiments. I've read how it's used. THAT is how you learn about something, not just firing up google video and sitting back for 51 minutes eating popcorn.

I don't need to do research. Luckily for me, there are far more learned people out there have done it for me. Rocket scientists, astrophysicists, you name it. They've all said it was exactly what the Russians said it was - a test of a new ICBM.

A documentary about HAARP that is full of nonsensical claims does not constitute evidence of anything to do with the Norwegian spiral. None.

reply to post by Wolfenz


Just find me the source cited online, and I'll read it. I'm not going to waste 51 minutes of my life when you can't even be bothered to find a decent source of evidence of your claims. Christ this is pathetic. If you can't be bothered to do it, why the **** should I?

This is a post that I will go through more thoroughly. It is well thought out, planned, and appreciated. Wouldn't it be nice if there were more threads like this? Well done.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

You can't understand what I said? Wow. No wonder you spend so much time on the 2012 board

You said that the fact this thread exists means the official story is wrong. I pointed out the inherent logical fallacy in that.

Wow, reading comprehension is a mother, ain't it?

Please explain to me where I implied that I 'can't understand' anything? I merely said you wasted time conveying absolutely nothing (new, for certain).

Furthermore, I was pointing out that you said there is no evidence...

All the evidence anyone has ever found points squarely to it being caused by a missile

...when in fact - whether or not you choose to agree with it - EVIDENCE is precisely what the first page was replete with, showing the contrary - ridiculous amounts of it. And 255 other posters seem to agree with that sentiment.

Lastly, before you start throwing around 2012-whackjob accusations, even you will have to admit that I've never (at most rarely) made reference to the Mayan calendar, galactic alignments, pole shifts, Timewave zero, Planet X, etc.... only that there seems to be 1) an acceleration of political, economic, and militarized 'destabilization', that certainly seems to be approaching a head between now and then, and 2) historical and geophysical evidence that shows a cataclysm is imminent.

Keep swinging away, though.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

I'm not going to watch a documentary to learn about HAARP. I've read about its equipment and the physics behind it. I've read about the experiments. I've read how it's used. THAT is how you learn about something, not just firing up google video and sitting back for 51 minutes eating popcorn.

actually i do both i read i listen and watch the (body language) and the emotions and reaction) in a video, you can not do that by just reading!. can you! >? but you for some reason reading it is all fact to you you posted very little to back up any of you claims ! at least I try to ! you said you read how HAARP is used ! but you have not read anything what the designers claim that HAARP and facility's that are related can also do!
what was the HAARP originally used for? before it was controlled by the military who had used it , what was it original intentions ! who designed it ?


I don't need to do research. Luckily for me, there are far more learned people out there have done it for me. Rocket scientists, astrophysicists, you name it. They've all said it was exactly what the Russians said it was - a test of a new ICBM.

a debunker that don't do research ! ? and nothing to show proof!
you believe a scientist or government agent by just reading their reports ( its only (Swamp gas www.cohenufo.org... or its just a weather balloon www.cartoonstock.com...) in actuality their covering up the real truth
i guess you dont believe in digging in deeper ! you would fit right in a Orwellian world take your unemotional pill en.wikipedia.org... read away to the possible doctored en.wikipedia.org...

A documentary about HAARP that is( full of nonsensical claims) does not constitute evidence of anything to do with the Norwegian spiral. None.

how do you know this for sure you said you wont watch the video! !!
like i said before even if its from the voice of the operators and the makers ,designers ?
EISCAT is almost the same as HAARP as EISCAT is involved with some of the reentry rockets in question here ! ICBM its possible that EISCAT is involved to !
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Just find me the source cited online, and I'll read it. I'm not going to waste 51 minutes of my life when you can't even be bothered to find a decent source of evidence of your claims. Christ this is pathetic. If you can't be bothered to do it, why the **** should I?

i have backed up my claims! where is your claims! !

(( warning OFF topic for a sec here )) trying to make claim how a person
believe in reading and the media shows only the fact's but believes in a 2000+ year old book in some the magic that is claimed in that book
(Note)the bible has a lot of truth into it but some claims that are skeptic do not relate in the scientific field .
oh you believe in Christ! so you believe in magic to ! (not very scientific ) walking on water raising the dead water into wine parting the sea (Moses)
the pillar of light following the exodos www.bibleufo.com...
do you know what the council of nicaea is all about >? en.wikipedia.org...

basicaly it was what should be put in or not to put in about jesus christ in bible in the emperor's [Constantine I ] favor if your so good please show me and the rest of the world what was left out in the bible i like to know
seeing that you debunk everyone on ATS

could the Norway Spiral be a Piller of Light ! shining in the heavens sorry ATS could not resist that one

reply to post by SquirrelNutz
Hi Squirre,
I think you just hit the nut on the head! Have a Cashew on me.

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
reply to post by bpg131313

 

I suggest you (and everyone else) READ THIS.. It may help to explain many of the burning questions that have been asked over and over again regarding this event.

Questions like:

What kind of rocket was it, why was it launched and what happened?
Did it really look that dramatic?
Why did it glow?
Why was it blue?
Why did it have a spiral pattern?
Why did it create a “black hole” or tunnel effect, where there was an apparent dark area inside a light ring?

Now if you or anyone else are in position to refute any of the explanations that were given for each of the above questions then I invite you to please provide your well substantiated reasoning for why those explanations are incorrect.


[edit on 7-2-2010 by PhotonEffect]

I can tell you one thing, it seemed to glow because of the sunlight. Nothing out of the ordinary there. We see it that effect quite often in the winter after planes, and rockets from Andøya Rocket Range.

The black hole effect was because it simply wasnt anything to reflect the sunlight anymore.

And to those of you who'll no doubt disagree with my claims, did you see it with your own eyes, or just some low quality youtubemovie?

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


No, the first page was full of conjecture. It might be accurate, but until someone can be bothered to use different sources and perform further analysis on it, it's just conjecture. I'm talking about evidence that can stand up to scientific rigour. Some back-of-the-napkin calculations don't in and of themselves prove anything. Those figures would need corroboration from other sources, using different methodologies, to determine anything. That's the beauty of science.

255 posters on ATS doesn't prove anything, as funnily enough, science and learning in general does not simply count heads. I've seen plenty of people on ATS believe the most retarded things imaginable, all without evidence (obviously).

1) no
2) bollocks does it.

Also, this isn't the place to discuss 2012 ramblings. There's a whole board dedicated to that "insight". Har har.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by davesidious]

reply to post by Gromle


I don't disagree with any of that Gromie

Unfortunately there are too many folks around who continue to challenge that fact.....and I just don't get it....

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
reply to post by Gromle

 

I don't disagree with any of that Gromie

Unfortunately there are too many folks around who continue to challenge that fact.....and I just don't get it....

Thats makes two of us... Its quite amazing how stubborn some people are.

just watched the history channel documentary of Nostradamus 2012

ive notice something interesting ! in the painting that is involved with Nostradamus this could be way out there but it interesting to the point out t what is on this drawing is almost the same as what is shown in norway / china spiral !

if you go deeper into the ancient world there are drawings all over the world with the same type of spiral mostly related what is seen in the -- sky --
so what going on here !
www.youtube.com...

notice the spiral center is related to the norway/china spiral in front of the scorpion please look and compare in both pics ! i say interesting !
bloggista.com...

perthparanormal.com...

same thing happen in china www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

here is a different view of the china spiral ! take a look !
right at the end of the video! fast forward of click real close to the end !
this spiral like the norway spiral is moving rapidly ! the norway spiral is claim to do the same at an fraction of the speed of this spiral ! this put's a twist on the discussion

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by davesidious


Hello to you and all
I have been toying around with this for bit now( not with any mathematical figures at this point just the base theory)and was going to make a thread on my thoughts til I came across you fine gentleman bickering away on the subject. So i'll just throw my two cents into this mess.

First off, You are correct in saying that EISCAT and HAARP while being extremly powerful, the microwaves alone cannot create visual effects. On the other hand ,mind you, when these microwaves are shot throughout the sky they can and do interact with the hundreds of different elements in the atmosphere, thus creating visual effects such as aurora Borealis( Many Alaskans have reported seeing such effects in the area of HAARP, other than the natural aurora that has occured for many years of course, as stated in the doc. you refuse to watch).

Now moving on to the actual theory which i have now learned I am not the only one who has come across the idea. Now imagine the possibility that the rocket might not have been a test but possibly an attack or a presumed attack on the president . So then the order was given to use the EISCAT facility to take down the rocket. Which would give you all the effects seen on that night.

Also as I have been typing this out. The thought occured to me that the whole thing might have been one giant military exercise testing the missile defense capabilities of the facility. Or it could have been a one in a billion and really expensive but beautiful failed missile test. i dunno_javascript:icon('')

Now you might say it wouldnt be powerful enough to do so. Well then my friend I dont think you truly understand the power of 1 billion microwave watts and you should look into. o... wait you dont do research so Ill give a small comparison. ok so seen as how a simple home microwave oven can create plasma effects under the right circumstances(or say destroy a plethora of things) and i believe they only operate at a couple thousand watts at most. Simply imagine what roughly a million times the energy could do. Just a thought. What would be yours??_javascript:icon('')?

reply to post by consciencious observer

Neither HAARP, EISCAT, or any other ionospheric heaters use microwaves. They use high frequency radiation between 3 and 10 MHz. Microwaves have a frequency of 300MHz and higher.

HAARP has produced optical effects (airglow) which are just barely visible to the naked eye. Both HAARP and EISCAT have been shown to produce what appear to be very small changes in the aurora.


Neither HAARP or EISCAT are capable of affecting any part of the ionosphere other than a small region more or less directly overhead. The missile (and the spiral) was 800-900 km to the east of EISCAT.

Neither HAARP or EISCAT transmitters produce 1 billion watts. HAARP's transmitters can produce 3.6mW and EISCAT can produce one third of that. The comparison to a microwave oven is meaningless. A microwave oven operates at about 2.5GHz (far higher frequency than ionospheric heaters). A typical microwave oven produces up to about 1500W and has a volume of about 1.5 cubic feet. This means that the power density within the oven is 1000 watts/cubic foot (although it's actually referred to in terms of square feet it's easier to visualize this way).

The antenna array of HAARP covers an area of 33 acres. Lets's look at a volume 1 foot thick over that area, a volume of 1,306,800 cubic feet. That gives us a power density of 2.5 watts/cubic foot. If you're trying to cook a turkey in the HAARP beam it's going to take a long time indeed. Of course, this is right at the antenna array. The farther away you get, the less the power density will be. At an altitude of 100km and using as "tight" a beam as possible, the affected area is about 17,300 acres and the power density is .04watts/cubic foot. You could sit in the middle of the beam all day and never notice.

[edit on 2/19/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

Neither HAARP, EISCAT, or any other ionospheric heaters use microwaves. They use high frequency radiation between 3 and 10 MHz. Microwaves have a frequency of 300MHz and higher.

HAARP has produced optical effects (airglow) which are just barely visible to the naked eye. Both HAARP and EISCAT have been shown to produce what appear to be very small changes in the aurora.


Neither HAARP or EISCAT are capable of affecting any part of the ionosphere other than a small region more or less directly overhead. The missile (and the spiral) was 800-900 km to the east of EISCAT.

Neither HAARP or EISCAT transmitters produce 1 billion watts. HAARP's transmitters can produce 3.6mW and EISCAT can produce one third of that. The comparison to a microwave oven is meaningless. A microwave oven operates at about 2.5GHz (far higher frequency than ionospheric heaters). A typical microwave oven produces up to about 1500W and has a volume of about 1.5 cubic feet. This means that the power density within the oven is 1000 watts/cubic foot (although it's actually referred to in terms of square feet it's easier to visualize this way).

The antenna array of HAARP covers an area of 33 acres. Lets's look at a volume 1 foot thick over that area, a volume of 1,306,800 cubic feet. That gives us a power density of 2.5 watts/cubic foot. If you're trying to cook a turkey in the HAARP beam it's going to take a long time indeed. Of course, this is right at the antenna array. The farther away you get, the less the power density will be. At an altitude of 100km and using as "tight" a beam as possible, the affected area is about 17,300 acres and the power density is .04watts/cubic foot. You could sit in the middle of the beam all day and never notice.

[edit on 2/19/2010 by Phage]

You always seem to have a very "facts only" point of view on things, which is cool.

The only trouble with that is sometimes the facts are manipulated for public eyes.

Any solid factual information about HAARP or EISCAT is released by HAARP and EISCAT.

I don't know... I'm a firm beleiver in "where theres smoke, theres fire"



[edit on 4-3-2010 by Blender]