The Modern UFO Myth and Imminent Disclosure

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Originally posted by Subz949
Yes I've meditated, not before the sighting though, I was 16yrs old at the time of the sighting. Afterwards I got heavily in trance music and DJ'd in southern england until about the mid ninties.

Thats the way it works, through meditation i.e stillness of the mind, somehow its possible to establish a connection, those who haven't meditated will not be able to comprehend the enormity of all of this, have you ever meditated off this planet? i,e been aware of just how small we are in all of this? (if its personally please U2U me)

It is my own belief that after sightings people become interested in meditation because something is unlocked inside of them and through the stillness of the mind it is possible to empathise with this 'thing'

[edit on 31-1-2010 by franspeakfree]

I don't want to drag this off topic - but I have a lot to say on the subject. I'll u2u later this evening when I have more time.

Great posts, converger!

You explained what I have been trying to say for a long time in a much better way that I can, with much more information than I would present.

Originally posted by converge
I believe, in fact, most stories and theories, certainly the most popular, are practically all based on tales and narratives constructed in the 80s and early-mid 90s. There are, of course, popular notions that predate these periods in time—like UFO crashes and retrievals—but when carefully analyzed, I think the bulk of the modern UFO lore can be traced to those decades, as well as to a handful of individuals.

Being from an European country, I would like to ask if you see any relation between this time frame and what was happening in Europe at that time.

It was during the 80s that the European public opinion was getting tired of a divided Europe and when the movements to bring democracy to Eastern Europe countries were gathering more people and strength, leading to the fall of the Berlin wall and all those other events that were more widely known throughout the World.

I would also like to ask if you see any relation to the differences in the type of sighting that were more commonly reported before and after the transition between the 70s and the 80s.

reply to post by hermantinkly


This is in response to pretty much all of Hermantinkly posts....

Exactly ... Perhaps you have read "Slave Species of god" or "Forbidden Archeology" .. It does indeed sound like you have. That being said, to piggyback off of what you said, Why is it so easy to write a thread about about "disinformation" from Doty or other sources and present that as the viable reason but, it's not easy to accept that PERHAPS the very science and history we are given is flawed in its own right.

It's the 21st century, tired ideology of what is presented as "fact" in the fields of science, history and religion are being challenged in increasingly large numbers due to the influx of ideas and actual FOUND EVIDENCE that's been hidden or brushed aside. You'll never see this in the mainstream but, it exists indeed and the number of civilians and scientists as well who have left the mainstream outnumber those who have not. You won't see this on the History or Science channel but, incase we have forgotten, we can still read. I challenge anybody to do some actual study on Eastern philosophy or read EITHER book that i've mentioned above and see if you come out feeling the same. It will undoubtably change your views of reality and consciousness. As a species, for whatever reason it may be, we have taken the original knowledge and warped and skewed it in to the abomination that it is today. How anybody can justify that the Sumerians, the first known civilization with writting, would take the newfound knowledge and write MYTHICAL stories is beyond comprehension. They documented what the saw, the best way they could. The word "myth" carries the same baggage as "conspiracy theory". As soon as you hear the word, you brush it aside as lunacy and it's this mindset that has set us so far back...

We are indeed, Gods with amnesia

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Ouroborus2012]

Great thread Converge and well written. I totally agree with your comments.

Progress will only happen in this field if the subject were approached objectively from all involved as you've stated. I don't respect the so called "research" of most ufologists because of their propensity for printing articles and publishing books that are full of hearsay and unsubstantiated claims. They make for an entertaining read, which is why these stories have legs.

It boils down to this, this also applies to religion, ghosts etc, most and I mean MOST people believe in something not by looking at evidence which has led them to that belief but because they WANT to believe it.
We need to stop deluding ourselves.

I'm intrigued by the subject of UFO's, but I wouldn't have a clue what's really behind this phenomenon.
Many people associate the term "UFO" with aliens. I won't cry alien unless I see an alien, even then I'll probably pay a visit to the local optometrist and psychiatrist, just to make sure.

So why would this agent Doty target one paticular Bennewitz that somewhat caused a chain like fence to blossom around this subject of ETs, Dulce, UFOs-- with names like Lear, Howe, Cooper, Strieber, John Mack, and so forth?

What exactly do you think the main objectives were from whomever was handling Doty and company

Sounds like a lot of work to me that is unless it was a big deal. these signals and lights..

Who knows...maybe this Bennewitz was an agent and not a target. I dont mean to sound like I'm derailing here but posts that are super lengthy in my personal opinion are.. a bit too much.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Arbitrageur,thanks for the reply -I'd tend to disagree with your opinions there. 'Conclusions' from the Condon committee are often cited by government agencies as the main reason for closing down investigations like Bluebook - even if one overlooks all the blatant omissions/inconsistencies/irregularities/contradictions etc.. as listed by scientists in these evaluations (second section) and wilfully ignores testimony that Dr Condon didn't even bother to read his own report before writing the (apparently preconceived) conclusions then I think its still a bit of a stretch to suggest the Committee was in any way objective.

Thursday, September 11, 2008

Two stunning new revelations have emerged from the collection of 1,200 pages of files copied by MUFON's Project Pandora from the files of the late Roy Craig, a physical chemist who was a key investigator for the University of Colorado's UFO study.One, it turns out that late in the study a project scientist wrote a memo admitting that more than 50% of their cases had turned out to be unexplained. Two, proof has now been found that project director Edward Condon had not in fact read his own report before writing up the report's "Conclusions and Recommendations," the opening chapter in the front of the report.

Link

Written statement from the Project Administrator before the report was even started.

"Our study would be conducted exclusively by "Non Believers". The trick would be ,I think,to describe the project so that to the public it would appear totally objective study.
Conclusion...There is no secrecy and no evidence that such objects even exist."

Memorandum from Robert Low - Project Administrator CONDON Report (Oct 1966 -Jan 1969) to Colorado University V.P. Thurston Marshall

Link

Obviously this isn't thread to have an in depth debate about the agenda and competence of the Condon Committee but please feel free to continue discussion here - as for Richard Dolan, he does make some assumptions about the ETH but his comments do echo Dr James E. Mcdonald's concerns who compiled the report below and then went on to strongly criticize Condon at the U.N.

Science in Default: Twenty-Two Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations

Close examination of the level of investigation and the level of scientific analysis involved in Project Sign (1948-9), Project Grudge (1949- 52), and Project Bluebook (1953 to date), reveals that these were, viewed scientifically, almost meaning less investigations.
Even during occasional periods (e.g., 1952) characterized by fairly active investigation of UFO cases, there was still such slight scientific expertise involved that there was never any real chance that the puzzling phenomena encountered in the most significant UFO cases would be elucidated.
Furthermore, the panels, consultants, contractual studies, etc., that the Air Force has had working on the UFO problem over the past 22 years have, with essentially no exception, brought almost negligible scientific scrutiny into the picture.

The Condon Report, released in January, 1968, after about two years of Air Force-supported study is, in my opinion, quite inadequate.
The sheer bulk of the Report, and the inclusion of much that can only be viewed as "scientific padding", cannot conceal from anyone who studies it closely the salient point that it represents an examination of only a tiny fraction of the most puzzling UFO reports of the past two decades, and that its level of scientific argumentation is wholly unsatisfactory. Furthermore, of the roughly 90 cases that it specifically confronts, over 30 are conceded to be unexplained.
With so large a fraction of unexplained cases (out of a sample that is by no means limited only to the truly puzzling cases, but includes an objectionably large number of obviously trivial cases), it is far from clear how Dr. Condon felt justified in concluding that the study indicated "that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby."

Link

Thread

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

The UFO phenomena is real. It is not contingent on disclosure, though it would be satisfying to see the government become transparent on this, and really, on everything else they do. But this is not likely to happen, not in my lifetime anyhow. Even if a UFO event happened to force their hand at disclosure, they would only dole out portions of the truth.

Why do I say the UFO phenomena is real? It's really quite simple. There is so much circumstantial evidence, if not outright first-hand accounts, that it is ludicrous that we bother to debate it any longer. People are put to death for far less evidence. I personally have witnessed a triangular craft, my partner witnessed a shape-shifting light that sped off to disappear instantly; and I have a number of close, responsible friends that have seen crafts as well, most the classic UFO shape. While these first-hand sightings do not prove the origin of the crafts, none were explainable in prosaic terms. None had characteristics of any manmade flying craft, military or civilian. And these are just events that I am privy to. There are far more experiences throughout the world by people I don’t know, and I read about them all the time.

reply to post by hermantinkly

What happened was that a certain group of extraterrestrials (gods with a lowercase "g") raided the planet, fought for it in wars, and won the fight. The "dark" extraterrestrials beat out the light-bearing extraterrestrials who had planned and designed this place as an intergalactic exchange center for information, and the concept of duality was birthed. This is all referenced in ancient Biblical texts, and in Summerian and Babylonian tablets. These beings have been called The Nephilm, The Annunaki, The Reptilians, etc. in modern history. In actuality, they were part human, and part Reptilian.

Oh boy, here we go...

I just can't handle anymore with this "bad-aliens-anunnaki-shapeshifter-reptilians" David Icke BULLSH*T propaganda. WTF??? Just tell me WHERE IS the irrefutable evidence that the Anunnaki are "reptilians"??? Please, WHERE IS THIS PROOF??? I've been studying the work of most important translators of Sumerian tablets, mainly Zecharia Sitchin and the Sumerian people didn't ANY reference suggesting the Anunnaki are reptoids. - "Oh, Zecharia Sitchin is a hoaxer!!" Well, before you say that, bring some EVIDENCES that corroborate this statement...
However, thorough evaluation of ancient sculptures, steles, high-reliefs and statues found in Middle East/Egypt archeological researches, can tell us a lot, regardless of the translations of scholars. Lets see some one them:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/873db1441a95.jpg[/atsimg]
Classic Sumerian stele depicting Anunnaki women around Princess Inanna. Does anyone see any reptile humanoid here??? I see a lot of women with large breasts. For WTF supposed reptile-humanoids would have mammary glands??? If anyone here knows the answer, plz elaborate...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4d399465e89d.jpg[/atsimg]
Acadian sculpture of Inanna. (More boobs)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/be6e16c49782.jpg[/atsimg]
Erotic Babylonian stele of Inanna with Nergal (OMG, more boobs)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b919ff71d4ed.jpg[/atsimg]
Here we see a Sumerian stele of Enki, Ninharsag and a human hybrid in ABZU lab. Sumerians never depicted Anunnaki as reptilians.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4bb2b3b3c57c.jpg[/atsimg]
In many Babylonian steles, EA/Enki/Oanes was depicted as a fish-humanoid. I wonder how nobody said the Anunnaki also could shapeshift into fishes... Does anyone has considered it`s an association with scuba divers, since Ea was(is) a sailor??

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/357f6e02d76e.jpg[/atsimg]
Egyptian stele depicting Ninharsag/Hathor (more tits) with an alligator-like humanoid.

Here is my point: The Anunnaki ARE NOT REPTILIANS, BUT we know they are experts in genetic engineering. The reptoid humanoids reported along the history, by many civilizations and that supposedly are working with US military, are result of the same experiments that created the primate homo-sapiens. Not aliens. If they evolved technically faster than us, probably they must be inherited a large legacy from Anunnaki, when they had left Earth, while we inherited bows, arrows and spears...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00362f173f50.jpg[/atsimg]

I'm SICK of this panic propaganda about shapeshifter reptoid aliens. People, get the facts STRAIGHTLY with plausible assumptions, based in historic data, not with information provided by "contactees channeling".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/37f24da1a938.jpg[/atsimg]
Left: An Anunnaki in human shape... Right: An Anunnaki in reptile shape, according with a "channeling".... I honestly, prefer my "reptile-sapiens-engineered-on-earth" theory...



[edit on 31-1-2010 by ucalien]

reply to post by converge


I found myself in nodding in agreement with much of what you posted in the OP. But there was one or two areas where I think you could be missing a trick. The first was this:

Let's focus on the facts—the objective, undeniable, hard facts. All the entertaining and fascinating stories, are just that—stories, and unverified at that. If people are ever going to really listen—being intellectually interested in the topic and not just entertained by it—and be convinced UFOs should be officially, scientifically and openly investigated is because they were persuaded by the hard facts and data.

That sounds perfectly reasonable on first read, but I'm not sure it leds anywhere. What are the hard facts? Photographic evidence, trace evidence, radar returns? etc

The problem there is all these can be replicated in terrestrial terms. Photographic evidence offers little in the way of evidence these days. Trace evidence gives little in the way of answers, we would have to know everything about this planet and it's capabilities, which we don't - so trace evidence offers little more then an interesting aspect to look into. Radar returns - the problem there is plasma (or plasmoids as they call it) has been shown to exhibit similiar characteristics to some pilot ufo sightings. Taking on all manner of shapes, rapid accelarations and stopping on a dime - all similiar to ufo pilot reports.

So what does that leave us with - if the signature of a ufo report can be replicated in terrestrial terms where does that leave the subject. I'm not sure it shows us any real answers.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head when you said this, even if you was implying something else when you said it:

Have you thought about the possibility that we're not supposed to be given the answers, but go look for them?

Maybe we are meant to go and look for the answers - but maybe that subjective, anecdotal evidence is where we start - maybe the answer lays with us, and how we perceive/interpret it.



[edit on 31-1-2010 by Subz949]

reply to post by lagenese


I could be wrong, and hope I am, but I disagree that Disclosure (which really is only the precursor to the much bigger and more important Contact anyway) will be on ET terms, or primarily. I don't see any formal, huge revelation or whatever action occuring at least prior to a pre-catastrophe ("end of the world") scenario, if applicable. As long as there aren't enough people against the primary, most essential secrecy-based stuff of which (the real) government is made (i.e. the National "Security" State), they will remain hidden, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise. I'm pretty convinced there's a real "Prime Directive" that is the guiding policy.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
As this seems to be a one sided thread I felt the need to jump in and stand up for the other side.

You say that your a skeptic, but tell me what would you be if you looked up in the sky one day and saw it clear as day a silver disc above you, hovering silently.

Suddenly the tables will be turned your the the style of your threads would change overnight, you will be part of the truth searcher community that the skeptics prey on.

I believe that the oPoster has stated that he/she is open to this sort of experience; furthermore, if the oPoster were in that situation and saw a "flying disc" hovering in the sky he/she wouldn't automatically conclude that it is an alien spaceship. Quite a leap between the two ideas if you really give it some thought.

Also, the oPoster is part of the "truth searcher community".

reply to post by converge


Great post S&F

I read somewhere that Richard Doty was a consultant on the X files tv show. The rabbit hole is deep.

hello gents i don't want to get too deep into this again but the way i see it is this:

1. you cant trust people no matter what they say or do
2. you cant trust anything politicians lawyers and governments tell you
3. you cant trust what you see because its so easy to fool a person's eyes

I could go on with my list but i think top 3 is good enough.

I'm by no means paranoid, i just don't believe in anything anymore other than what i have concluded with my own experiences.

So what doe this have to do with all of the alien related nonsense, well quite simply i don't think anyone really knows anything, some may have seen something and a few actually may have had direct contact with it.

This brings me to realize that there is a lot of hype and speculation going around about what is and whats not going on which causes even more confusion because the more people that tell the story the more the story becomes twisted.

The only logical thing to do in my opinion is to look at this in the same way we look at legends, basically a legend had an origin in a true life even, even though it may have been romanticized over the ages at some point in time it did occur and then one must look at the first person to tell the story for the most uncorrupted version.

Currently I am lost and have lost interest in finding the original case of alien encounter so perhaps someone can peek my interest again.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Some of these people seek attention and some seek to deflect attention. InfaRedMan's sig is a good example of the crap in UFO topics.

Excellent point, although, I myself had witnessed a UFO 12 years ago and remember I mean UFO in the truest sense of the phrase: Unidentified Flying Object. What I saw was extremely high in the sky and at first glance I thought it was a star until I realized it wasn't stationary. Ok, I thought, its a plane but there were no warning lights, the shape was oval and the whole thing was one color. Similar to the color of a star. For about 15mins, the object moved from north-east to the north at what appeared to be a high flying plane speed, sort of like the supposed chem-trail planes. Again I thought to myself OK, its just probably a plane and its so far up that I couldn't see wings and maybe the warning lights were disabled or maybe it was in an angle where I couldn't see the warning lights. Until, the object accelerated briefly towards the north, stopped for several seconds and then jettisoned to the north-west at tremendous speed and was gone. The interesting thing was, right before the object disappeared, it looked as if someone drew a faint straight chalk line in the sky, which was the width of the object and seconds later, the back of the line joined the front of the line and then disappeared.

Now, I understand most of you may not believe me which is fine, I know what I saw that evening and as I stated before, what I saw was a UFO in it's truest phrase, an Unidentified Flying Object. Whether it was an ET flying space ship or an extra secret government aircraft American or foreign, I just couldn't tell you. What I do know after researching aircraft and UFO phenomenon for years after, statements like Reptilians and Greys piloting to do this or that, really puts a disservice to Ufology. Before we get to the "plotting" beings from another galaxy/dimension, lets find out about the 5% of the flying objects calims in the sky that can't be identified. ENOUGH with the attention seekers and liars, we as skeptics and believers need to find out what is really going on and finally put this topic to rest. Or have we already found the truth. Amidst the disinformation, misinformation and the straight up lies, how could we truly know whats false or whats true? I agree with the scientific approach but that to can be falsified. Just look at the climate change debacle.

Well, it certainly seems everyone loved the post now allow me to say it: THIS IS THE BEST UFO/ALIEN THREAD that has appeared on ATS in a long time.
I just had to take up the space and time to say it.
Now you just got to get published and turn your talent into $$$.

Originally posted by R0BCROW75
Well, it certainly seems everyone loved the post now allow me to say it: THIS IS THE BEST UFO/ALIEN THREAD that has appeared on ATS in a long time.
I just had to take up the space and time to say it.
Now you just got to get published and turn your talent into $$$.

I think there is more then enough people making money from this subject - do we really need more!

That's no dig and converge - it was a great piece to read.

reply to post by Subz949


I should of just said that it was an entertaining piece- still, if they're doing it and managing to survive .....
This area of study needs more objectivity. I'm a believer but I see too much of a political slant in the area of ufology.
Good guy alien vs Bad guy alien is what we get most of time. So far I've only seen bad guy humans telling tale tales but that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by R0BCROW75
reply to post by Subz949

 

I should of just said that it was an entertaining piece- still, if they're doing it and managing to survive .....
This area of study needs more objectivity. I'm a believer but I see too much of a political slant in the area of ufology.
Good guy alien vs Bad guy alien is what we get most of time. So far I've only seen bad guy humans telling tale tales but that's just my opinion.

I see what your saying, probably more down to a general inbuilt mechanism we have. Much like we are built to find patterns in things, we tend to pigeon hole things into 'good - bad' so it's easier to get our heads around.

I've said it before, but I genuinely don't believe that alot of these people are telling tales, even the more outlandish ones. I think quite a few people are victims of their interpretations, or being misled by whatever is behind it. It's a hard one to put my finger on and explain properly - but there is something about some of these cases that just don't seem right, and I don't mean that they are lying, just that there is something else going on.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Subz949]

There is Government UFOs and no E.T.

The Watchers are pulling the strings on this Great Deception.
They are reptilian gods that are evil. These are the ones who torment man now as Demons. They are written about in the Book of Enoch.

www.deliriumsrealm.com...

reply to post by lagenese


you claim we are not up to par but i ask you this why in ancient times when contact was made evidence in ancient art we were more primitive less intelligent lacking in basic hygene why were we privlaged with there presence
no i believe there is no disclosure because our intelligence has advanced too fast from horse and buggy to basic space flight in 100 years not to mention all our other great creations ie h-bomb lhc etc... do you understand we are not too primative we are too advanced there will be no disclosure because of basic fear we are too dangerous to be allowed into the galactic community can you imagine what would transpire if we were able to use stargate tech or even true warp travel galactic travel time travel we would do what we have always done dominate and control and that cannot be allowed too happen. they say the moon is older than the earth and populated by the alien cowards to monitor us well monitor this i believe if we want disclosure then we need to force the issue lets get 100,000 people together and storm area 51 what are they gonna do kill everyone or givin and say the truth remember we create our reality every religion states we are made in gods image we are co-creaters so start acting like that create the disclosure you want get 100,000 people together and proudly march into area 51 on dec 21,2012 and end the cycle of control freewill is a right we must exercise